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Toothpaste
04-26-2008, 09:42 PM
Sorry if there is a thread started on this already. Please just merge if so.

Okay.

So I read the book last week and totally fell in love with it, and now I want to talk about the plans for the movie, because I am now considering myself an obsessive fan even though I read the book 2 decades late and only once.

Well? What are people thinking? I'm pretty confident about what I've been seeing so far. My only concern right now is how young all the actors are who have been cast. To me the book is about middle age, not youth. Well I mean, 40s, which isn't really middle age, but I can't think of a good term to describe that age bracket. But I do love the choices, considering their decision to go with the younger actors. Especially like the choice of Jeffrey Dean Morgan as the Comedian because I love him (okay so I love him from Grey's Anatomy, but say what you will about the show, he was amazing in it).

Anyone else?

childeroland
04-27-2008, 12:44 AM
The screenwriter is the same guy who is or was doing Mann's revised 'Frankie Machine' script, so the writing seems on point (so he says looking at his crystal ball of hope).

Patrick Wilson (Nite Owl) seems absurdly young for the role but he is a very good actor. The guys playing Rorschach, Hollis Mason, and Moloch seem a bit more age appropriate, and Ozymandias always strikes me as a young buck every time I read the book.

Snyder wanted younger actors to ease the flashback scenes. That seems like b.s. to me, but whatever; at least they didn't go with a Dawson's Creek cast like Miller was/is for Justice League.

Be nice if Black Freighter would've made it into the film, but ah well.

Have you seen the character pics released thus far? Pretty badass.

Toothpaste
04-27-2008, 12:49 AM
They are pretty cool, I know some people think they are too slick, but I personally quite like them.

I'm part of this website that is launching on May 1st called Hardcore Nerdity (www.hardcorenerdity.com) and our first podcast is an interview with David Hayter who worked on the screenplay for Watchmen (he also wrote the first two X Men movies). It's pretty cool, and it really sounds like they are sticking very closely with the story.

Forgot to add Billy Crudup as Dr. Manhattan. Good choice. Excellent actor.

katiemac
04-27-2008, 11:21 AM
I think Jeffrey Dean Morgan is a fanatastic choice, going on voice alone. Have you heard the man speak? I say that's how The Comedian should sound. I'm not too familiar with the other actors, except Billy Crudup...

... but I'm excited as hell about this movie. I hope it turns out half as good as I want it to be.

Oh, and don't worry Toothpaste. I only read it last summer myself. Go check out some of the photos at http://watchmenmovie.warnerbros.com/.

underthecity
04-27-2008, 01:16 PM
I had no idea they were making Watchmen into a movie. I read it in the late 80s. I still love it; I think it's one of the best books I've ever read. But wouldn't a movie be, like, twenty hours long?

allen

nevada
05-27-2008, 11:08 PM
Here's a brief report on the final plans for the movie. It's not much but it's something. I'm not familiar with this comic book at all, but it looks like it could be interesting. I love superhero movies.

http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/05/27/watchmen-three-hour-theatrical-cut-4-12-hour-directors-cut-dvd-planned/

Toothpaste
05-27-2008, 11:34 PM
Thanks so much for the link! Nevada you should really get your hands on this book. It is so much more than a "superhero movie", or comic book. It is a seminal work of art written by Alan Moore and illustrated by Dave Gibbons, listed in Time magazine as one of the top 100 english novels of the 20th/21st century (well - post 1923). It is the anti-super hero book, and totally amazing. Turning it into a film will be difficult on so many different levels.

For people interested, here is the wiki entry on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen

An article I wrote for Hardcore Nerdity on it: http://angryrobot.ca/2008/05/06/better-late-than-never-a-newbies-introduction-to-watchmen

And a podcast interviewing David Hayter who worked on the screenplay: http://angryrobot.ca/files/01HCN.mp3

Zoombie
05-28-2008, 12:17 AM
Explodes!

I JUST READ THIS BOOK.

I litterally blew through it in three hours and...


It sucked.

























Just kidding. No, actually, it was one of the best books I've ever read. Now...movie wise...I'm actually REALLY excited. Cause a three hour long movie? FUCK YES!

And I want the Under the Hood documentery so much...not so much with the Tales of the Black Freighter, but still!

Zoombie
05-28-2008, 12:21 AM
I also remember hearing some rumors that Simon Pegg might have been Roscharch.

Now THAT I'd have wanted to see, just becuase comedic actors are actually way better at doing drama than you'd think and I just...love Simon Pegg.

But this other guy is cool...I have no idea who he is though.

nevada
05-28-2008, 12:26 AM
The library has the book in their adult graphix section. Which I didn't know they had. lol I shall put it on hold and read it.

Zoombie
05-28-2008, 12:30 AM
I got mine from my American lit teacher.

Yes, he's that awesome: He lets his kids do their book reports on Watchmen!

Sheryl Nantus
05-28-2008, 12:31 AM
it looks like it may be absolutely faboo...

... or totally exploitive of the fans. I've already heard rumblings about changes made to the script that go against the original novel and things coming out that just make my anti-corporate hairs bristle on the back of my neck.

I don't mind seeing a great movie but if I'm going to be forced to buy all and sundry and the merchandizing is out the wazoo...

:(

now if they had put all this work into promoting Speed Racer, well...

:D

Inkdaub
05-29-2008, 01:18 PM
Rorschach is the bad boy rocker guy from the Bad News Bears. He'll be great.

katiemac
05-29-2008, 07:38 PM
Dun dun dun ...

http://rss.warnerbros.com/watchmen/ComedianFull-thumb.jpg

Toothpaste
05-29-2008, 08:26 PM
I know! Jeffrey Dean Morgan as the Comedian!!! So very very excited . . .

maxmordon
06-20-2008, 04:31 AM
http://www.aintitcool.com/images2008/mmpic.jpg

JoNightshade
06-20-2008, 04:37 AM
Can someone explain to me why Watchmen is so awesome? I've never really 'gotten' Alan Moore... his stuff just doesn't do it for me. I'm a huuuge fan of comics both superhero and not, and I thought Watchmen was all right, but not mind-blowing. I think Dark Knight Returns and Identity Crisis were both far superior.

JamieFord
06-20-2008, 05:26 AM
I loved Watchmen, but sort of fear the movie ruining it. It seems like it'd be hard to do it justice in two hours.

Oh, and in case you haven't seen this...

http://www.jamieford.com/storage/watchpeanuts.jpg

Zoombie
06-20-2008, 11:13 AM
Can someone explain to me why Watchmen is so awesome? I've never really 'gotten' Alan Moore... his stuff just doesn't do it for me. I'm a huuuge fan of comics both superhero and not, and I thought Watchmen was all right, but not mind-blowing. I think Dark Knight Returns and Identity Crisis were both far superior.

Cause it is ^_^

I'm sure there's a better explanation, but that's mine

Toothpaste
06-20-2008, 06:22 PM
Well if you weren't that into it, that's all there is to it. I can explain to you its place in writing history, and how it is a seminal work of art. How it totally redefined the way people looked at superheros. How you'll note not one of the heroes has special powers (except Dr. Manhattan), that the story is more about people, than it is about an adventure. It's dark and poetic (Chapter IV). It's also a story of its time, playing with fears of the cold war. It was one of the first of its kind as well. Like with the Mona Lisa, whom many when they see it don't quite get why it's that famous, it's about its time and place in history just as much as it is about the work itself.

But all that said, if you didn't love it, that's okay too! Not everyone is going to like everything, I am sure even when the book came out there were people who didn't like it. I for one don't love everything Alan Moore has done, that's for sure.

Hope this helps somewhat!

Jcomp
06-20-2008, 06:25 PM
Can someone explain to me why Watchmen is so awesome? I've never really 'gotten' Alan Moore... his stuff just doesn't do it for me. I'm a huuuge fan of comics both superhero and not, and I thought Watchmen was all right, but not mind-blowing. I think Dark Knight Returns and Identity Crisis were both far superior.

Identity Crisis? Really? I hated Identity Crisis.

I can see Dark Knight Returns (though I feel about Frank Miller how you seem to feel about Alan Moore), being placed above Watchmen by some.

To be honest, out of Moore's work, I like V for Vendetta more than Watchment, but I also enjoyed Watchmen, for many of the same reasons. The layers, for one. Moore is so meticulous. Every panel counts. Every page counts. Every little thing in the background counts. I tend to find many comics have, unfortunately, little to offer on a second & third reading, but Watchmen is like a DVD with easter eggs. The "Tales of the Black Freighter" comic book within the comic book, the relationship to actual history, the ensemble of interesting, memorable characters, the moral conflicts and ambiguity, the unanswered questions. It covers a spectrum from intimate thought to cosmic consequence.

I just love the layers of it. And that's why I think, while it can be made into a good movie, it can't be made into a really satisfying movie for anyone who loves the graphic novel. Much like V for Vendetta. Which is one thing I love about Moore's best work. It maximizes the medium in such a way that it's almost impossible for an adaptation to do it justice.

shawkins
06-20-2008, 07:03 PM
I'm about 95% sure I read somewhere that they're doing the Black Freighter stuff as an extra for the DVD release. I think it's going to be animated, but I wouldn't swear to it.

Slightly off-topic:

I just read a couple of books called Supreme Power in the Marvel MAX series, and loved them about as much as anything else I've read in the genre. I mention it here because I probably wouldn't have noticed them if a buddy of mine hadn't rec'd them to me.

Marvel puts them out, but they're basically a really dark take on the DC mainstays. Superman Hyperion lands on a farm, Jon & Martha adopt him, but the next day the pentagon takes him away and raises him to be a secret weapon. Batman Nighthawk's parents were killed by racist rednecks, and he's not, um, unduly PC in his outlook on race relations. Wonder Woman Zarda would kill you as soon as look at you. And so forth.

If you like Watchmen / Dark Knight / Sandman type stuff I'd highly recommend the Supreme Power series.

childeroland
06-20-2008, 07:18 PM
Are these by Ellis or Busiek?

shawkins
06-20-2008, 07:26 PM
J. Michael Straczynski -- I'm told he's the Babylon 5 guy. B5 never rocked my world, but, again, loved this stuff.

Amazon link here (http://www.amazon.com/Supreme-Power-Vol-Michael-Straczynski/dp/078511369X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213975462&sr=8-1)

Sunnyside
06-20-2008, 08:11 PM
Can someone explain to me why Watchmen is so awesome? I've never really 'gotten' Alan Moore... his stuff just doesn't do it for me. I'm a huuuge fan of comics both superhero and not, and I thought Watchmen was all right, but not mind-blowing. I think Dark Knight Returns and Identity Crisis were both far superior.

Part of what made -- and makes -- Watchmen so wonderful is it uses the comics medium about as perfectly as it can be used. It was incredibly far ahead of it's time in the way it used words and images to tell a story, its use of flashbacks, supportive text materials, and so on. (Even Moore's work on Saga of the Swamp Thing at the time wasn't quite as sophisticated as Watchmen.) I was working in a comics store at the time Watchmen (and Dark Knight, for that matter) was coming out, and I can tell you, there was nothing else being done at the time that was even close. It was unlike anything we'd ever seen.

Watchmen proved comics could be sophisticated and serious -- and for the last 20 years, comics have improved significantly, paving the way for lots of great titles that wouldn't have existed (though there are still countless titles that suffer from overwriting, in the name of trying to look Serious and Sophisiticated) and writers (and readers) who would never have given comics a second look. For the same reason that Peanuts started to appear to lose its sheen in the out years -- namely, it had been so far ahead of its time for so long that when everything else finally caught up to it, it was easy to sneer at Schulz as "having lost it" -- so, too, do some readers look at Watchmen and go, "Meh, it's been done." Well, yes, it has. Over and over again. But still nowhere nearly as well.

Anyway, there are lots of other reasons why Watchmen is so awesome. That's just one of them (though I, too, am partial to the "it just is!" response as well....)

Zoombie
06-20-2008, 11:33 PM
OH! I know why!

Becuase the Watchman was the first comic book I had that had the guts to not only punch you in the guy, but rub your face in it too!

I speak, of course, of the ending ^_^

Inkdaub
06-22-2008, 03:01 PM
I'm about 95% sure I read somewhere that they're doing the Black Freighter stuff as an extra for the DVD release. I think it's going to be animated, but I wouldn't swear to it.

Slightly off-topic:

I just read a couple of books called Supreme Power in the Marvel MAX series, and loved them about as much as anything else I've read in the genre. I mention it here because I probably wouldn't have noticed them if a buddy of mine hadn't rec'd them to me.

Marvel puts them out, but they're basically a really dark take on the DC mainstays. Superman Hyperion lands on a farm, Jon & Martha adopt him, but the next day the pentagon takes him away and raises him to be a secret weapon. Batman Nighthawk's parents were killed by racist rednecks, and he's not, um, unduly PC in his outlook on race relations. Wonder Woman Zarda would kill you as soon as look at you. And so forth.

If you like Watchmen / Dark Knight / Sandman type stuff I'd highly recommend the Supreme Power series.

The interesting thing, to me, about the Squadron Supreme is that they were literally created as a joke take off on the Justice League(all Squadroners being slightly disguised alternates of DC heros) but have since had pretty interesting storylines being written for them.

They had a limited series in the eighties that dealt with the superheros(Squadron Supreme) basically taking control and attempting to force a utopia on the world. They get involved in mind tampering/control and other bizarre stuff, including the 'Green Lantern knockoff' guy(Mister Prism maybe?) whose name I forget actually killing one of his teammates while trying to stop him from scaring a crowd of people, that was really pretty deep and topical for pop comics at the time.

I have heard other reports that the current Squadron Supreme comics are pretty good but I haven't looked into them. I just think it's interesting that a group started as a farce became something much more.

shawkins
06-22-2008, 04:36 PM
The interesting thing, to me, about the Squadron Supreme is that they were literally created as a joke take off on the Justice League(all Squadroners being slightly disguised alternates of DC heros) but have since had pretty interesting storylines being written for them. .

I was vaguely aware of this from reading the liner notes, but I've never seen any of the '80s stuff. Is it worth tracking down?


including the 'Green Lantern knockoff' guy(Mister Prism maybe?) whose name I forget actually killing one of his teammates

I think his name was Captain Trademark Infringement. More than slightly ironic that it's Marvel who put this series out. Pot, meet kettle.


I just think it's interesting that a group started as a farce became something much more.

Yeah, that is interesting isn't it? I'll trot it out as exhibit A next time there's an argument about story-vs-storyteller.

Personally, I always thought the basic plot of Plan 9 From Outer Space (invading aliens reanimate the dead to use as weapon) had some juice to it.

Jcomp
06-22-2008, 05:51 PM
Personally, I always thought the basic plot of Plan 9 From Outer Space (invading aliens reanimate the dead to use as weapon) had some juice to it.

Hmm... now that you mention it...

Inkdaub
06-23-2008, 12:53 PM
I was vaguely aware of this from reading the liner notes, but I've never seen any of the '80s stuff. Is it worth tracking down?





I would say yes based on the subject matter alone. However, many comics I loved in the eighties do not hold up well today. Still, I would be interested in taking another look at it. I read a bit on the Wikipedia and it looks even more interesting than I remember.

Squadron Supreme started as a team of villains called Squadron Sinister but I have not read any of that stuff. I read a miniseries that was really very good and is the total of my exposure to Squadron Supreme.

Inkdaub
06-23-2008, 12:57 PM
To get back on track, my friend who is a major comics nut told me The Watchmen were originally supposed to be already established DC heroes. My friend says the story was pitched by Moore and DC loved it...but wouldn't allow him to use the established DC heroes as the subject matter was too dark. So The Watchmen were born.

I don't know how true this actually is but it sounds feasible I suppose.

Zoombie
06-24-2008, 11:28 AM
I like the original heroes in Watchmen more than the DC heroes...they've got more grit and reality to them. Also they fit into the universe better than if they had all been cobbled together, ya know?

Also...Doctor Manhattan?

Sunnyside
06-24-2008, 08:15 PM
To get back on track, my friend who is a major comics nut told me The Watchmen were originally supposed to be already established DC heroes. My friend says the story was pitched by Moore and DC loved it...but wouldn't allow him to use the established DC heroes as the subject matter was too dark. So The Watchmen were born.

I don't know how true this actually is but it sounds feasible I suppose.

That's true, though they weren't DC heroes per se. Back in the 1980s, DC acquired the rights to the old Charleton comics characters, picking up characters like Steve Ditko's The Question, Blue Beetle, and so on. Moore wrote a first proposal using these characters, and editor Dick Giordano (I think it was) said something like, "I really love this, but the characters are sort of unusable after this -- and we've got plans to use them in the DC universe. Why don't you create characters of your own?"

So Moore did, though you can still see a shadow of their Charleton counterparts in the final project, with Rorschach in for The Question, Night Owl for Blue Beetle, etcetera. If I remember right, you can read all about it in Absolute Watchmen....

Zoombie
06-25-2008, 01:09 AM
I read somewhere that in the new creation myth for the Question, he reads a copy of Watchmen and decides that Rorschach is cool and decides to ape him.

SPMiller
06-25-2008, 02:36 AM
I always thought Watchmen was so popular because it was the first postmodern deconstruction of the superhero concept. To me, it read like a tongue-in-cheek parody rife with black comedy. Which is fine, and even enjoyable.

Pike
06-25-2008, 03:47 AM
*coming in a little late to t he party*

The Watchmen upped the ante for all comic writing. I was heavy into Spidey and the X-Men back then, thinking about how cool the art was and if Wolverine would finally gut someone. Then I read the Watchmen and grew up a little bit. It hit so many levels, with prejudice, fear mongering, narscism, responsibilty - it was so wonderfully adult and told through a kid's medium. And now I watch movies and TV shows and catch the subtle tell-tale signs of the Watchmen influence on them. If the movie does the graphic novel justice it will blow people away.

Pike

Inkdaub
06-25-2008, 02:21 PM
I wanted to be The Question for Halloween this last year but decided I didn't want to go through the entire night hearing about how terrible my Rorschach costume was.

shawkins
06-25-2008, 05:23 PM
So Moore did, though you can still see a shadow of their Charleton counterparts in the final project, with Rorschach in for The Question, Night Owl for Blue Beetle, etcetera. If I remember right, you can read all about it in Absolute Watchmen....

I'm a little hesitant to shell out the bucks for those Absolute collections, but I do need to re-acquire Watchmen & most of Sandman. (One of my furry little bastards claimed a 16" stack of comics as his own.)

Would you recommend the Absolute edition(s)?

Sunnyside
06-25-2008, 07:08 PM
Would you recommend the Absolute edition(s)?

No pun intended, but absolutely. The Watchmen edition is based on the limited hardback that Graffitti put out a bajillion years ago, which retailed even then for 75 bucks. If you an find the Absolute edition of Watchmen on amazon or ebay for aound 50-75 bucks, I'd take it.

Besides having the story in a beautiful edition, you get a lot of bonus features, including house ads from the 1980s, and a reprint of Moore's script for the first issue, which is more than worth the price of admission (the guy is not only brilliant and thorough in his scripts, but really damn funny).

The Moore script alone makes the Absolute edition worth it, in my opinion.

I also made the leap to the Absolute Sandman editions, and also highly recommend them for the same reason. Not only are the stories reprinted in beautiful, oversized glossy pages, but you'll get Gaiman's original pitch (with his own art) for revising Sandman, along with scripts, pencilled drafts of characters, and so on. It's terrific stuff.

Sunnyside
06-25-2008, 07:16 PM
I read somewhere that in the new creation myth for the Question, he reads a copy of Watchmen and decides that Rorschach is cool and decides to ape him.

Er, that's not quite true. In Denny O'Neil's revamp of The Question -- a really terrific series, by the way -- there's an issue called "A Dream of Rorschach" in which the Question actually reads a copy of Watchmen, then has a dream in which he's Rorschach, then considers his own views of right and wrong. (O'Neil took the Question from Steve Ditko's original black/white view of the character and his motivations, and made him a bit more deliberate and philosophical).

It wasn't really a memorable issue, and it seemed a bit klunky to inject Watchmen into the plot, but the rumor at the time was that the Powers That Be at DC had insisted that a Watchmen character make an appearance somewhere, somehow, in a DC title in order to keep the ownership of the property from reverting to Moore (I think there was something about using the characters in another book within a year or the ownership would revert to Alan Moore . . . and DC didn't want that. It was just another string of events that led to Moore saying 'Screw you!')

Of course, they may actually have changed his origin recently to have a more direct Rorschach influence. I haven't read The Question since the first run concluded ages ago.

katiemac
07-18-2008, 11:34 AM
I've seen the trailer.

AWESOME!


ETA: Here it is (http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/watchmen/).

maxmordon
07-18-2008, 11:44 AM
Thank you, Katie! Seems promising but the song irkens me

Pike
07-18-2008, 05:10 PM
I ignored the song, or at least tried. Loved Nightowl's ship! For anyone else, you can catch the trailor on YouTube. I stuck it on my blog so I cold watch it daily.

Pike

nevada
07-18-2008, 05:36 PM
Holy crap, I know nothing about Watchmen, but that trailer is wicked awesome. I can't wait to see it now. Oh, and by the way, I liked the song. lol

Pike
07-18-2008, 05:40 PM
I'd hasten to say read the graphic novel before seeing the flick. It redefined comics. We can only hope and pray - and sacrifice anything that's feasable - that the movie meets it's standard.

Pike

ChaosTitan
07-18-2008, 06:11 PM
Holy crap, is right. Wow.

Shadow_Ferret
07-18-2008, 06:36 PM
So I read the book last week

Book? Why was I thinking Watchmen was a comic?

(And I fully admit I know very little about the comic because it came out during my 30 year hiatus from comics. But what I've seen of it, they seem like ripoffs of other characters.)

ChaosTitan
07-18-2008, 06:43 PM
It's a graphic novel.

Shadow_Ferret
07-18-2008, 06:49 PM
It's a graphic novel.
That's what I said. Comic.

So it wasn't a real novel then?

ETA: Was it a comic series compiled as a graphic novel or was it a straight to graphic novel comic?

katiemac
07-18-2008, 06:56 PM
(And I fully admit I know very little about the comic because it came out during my 30 year hiatus from comics. But what I've seen of it, they seem like ripoffs of other characters.)

Thematically speaking, that's kind of the point. Alan Moore originally pitched the concept to DC using DC's established characters. But the angle he was using was so drastic DC wasn't comfortable using their characters in the mix. So the concept stayed, the characters changed.

shawkins
07-18-2008, 08:42 PM
I've seen the trailer.

AWESOME!


ETA: Here it is (http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/watchmen/).


Oh....My....GAWD. Can you die of nerdgasm?

I liked the song. Entertainment Weekly's got an article on Watchmen: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20213273,00.html

JoNightshade
07-18-2008, 08:56 PM
Yep, trailer looks pretty cool.

I think from reading all your responses to my question (why Watchment is so awesome), this is something I just missed out on, and reading it for the first time recently it just doesn't have the same impact because it's not 'groundbreaking' anymore.

But then, I read V for Vendetta and thought "meh," but I LOVED the movie. So perhaps this will translate equally well. :)

Sunnyside
07-18-2008, 10:58 PM
Book? Why was I thinking Watchmen was a comic?

(And I fully admit I know very little about the comic because it came out during my 30 year hiatus from comics. But what I've seen of it, they seem like ripoffs of other characters.)

I answered this in one of my posts up above, as did another poster, where we both mentioned that Moore had originally pitched a story using established characters. But I just found an old Entertainment Weekly interview with Alan Moore in which he discusses this himself. Here's what he said:

"In my late teens, as I was daydreaming about becoming a comic-book writer, I found myself thinking about a line of '60s superheroes published by Archie Comics: What if one of them was found murdered, and through the investigation, you explored the world they lived in? I intended to resurrect that idea with the project that became Watchmen. But when we submitted the proposal, DC realized their expensive characters would end up either dead or dysfunctional."

You can see the rest of the interview here (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,1120854_2,00.html).

ChaosTitan
07-18-2008, 11:29 PM
That's what I said. Comic.

So it wasn't a real novel then?


Real = prose novel? No.

Believe it or not, a work can be a comic book without being a graphic novel, just as a work can be a graphic novel with ever being a comic book.

Cybernaught
07-18-2008, 11:33 PM
Alan Moore calls "Graphic Novel" a marketing term. Watchmen to him is a comic.

SPMiller
07-18-2008, 11:48 PM
You guys do realize that my last post wasn't a joke, right? Watchmen was a very serious, very effective deconstruction of its genre. Releasing it as a movie could very easily kill the superhero movie for quite a while.

But I guess it's worth it.

Shadow_Ferret
07-18-2008, 11:53 PM
Believe it or not, a work can be a comic book without being a graphic novel, just as a work can be a graphic novel with ever being a comic book.
I know that. That is why I asked the question on which came first, the chicken or the egg.

SPMiller
07-18-2008, 11:57 PM
Shadow, if you do end up reading it, it becomes painfully clear it was serialized in comic-book form first.

Zoombie
07-19-2008, 03:10 AM
Just saw the trailer at my writer's workshop. All the other writers clustered around me and we had a collective nerdgasim.

gina
07-19-2008, 04:35 AM
Saw the trailer for this before the showing of The Dark Knight today, and I am pumped for this movie.

Cybernaught
07-20-2008, 03:02 AM
I read the Entertainment Weekly article. Apparently, they are changing the catastrophic ending, which is a major let down. That ending really makes you look at superheros and villains in a whole new light.

Pike
07-20-2008, 03:04 AM
Before I rush off to read the article... Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooo!

katiemac
07-20-2008, 03:08 AM
I read the Entertainment Weekly article. Apparently, they are changing the catastrophic ending, which is a major let down. That ending really makes you look at superheros and villains in a whole new light.

I read it, too. (EW is pretty much my Bible, after all.) But they didn't say how different it is, and Zack Snyder won of a lot of the studio battles to really change the story. Even if the climax is somehow different, the impact may very well be the same.

Also in the article: Snyder showed some initial footage to a studio exec, who responded: "This makes Superman look stupid." That, to me, says the major themes and consequences are still intact. Gritty, realistic and thought-provoking commentary.

Cybernaught
07-20-2008, 03:25 AM
I read it, too. (EW is pretty much my Bible, after all.) But they didn't say how different it is, and Zack Snyder won of a lot of the studio battles to really change the story. Even if the climax is somehow different, the impact may very well be the same.

Also in the article: Snyder showed some initial footage to a studio exec, who responded: "This makes Superman look stupid." That, to me, says the major themes and consequences are still intact. Gritty, realistic and thought-provoking commentary.

Yeah, but I'm just wondering which aspect of the ending they are going to change. I mean, the choice that these characters make regarding it truly makes your jaw drop. If they change it in an immense way (Like the outcome) then that really destroys the entire thing the story stands for. I did read though that they are keeping the whole villain-doesn't-face-justice aspect of it, so perhaps it won't be too different.

katiemac
07-20-2008, 04:44 AM
Now that the trailer's out, they've redone (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/www.watchmenmovie.com) the website. The more footage I see of Jeffrey Dean Morgan as the Comedian the more excited I get.

Zoombie
07-20-2008, 09:18 AM
Okay, wait...what PART of the end are they changing?

Is it...the "3 million new yorkers die"

Or is it...something else?

Cause, if its the first thing, bad!

If its the other thing, still bad but not quite as bad!

Chameleon
07-20-2008, 09:44 AM
Hmmm..never heard of Watchmen, but based on that trailer..It looks like an exciting movie!

nighttimer
07-20-2008, 09:47 AM
To be honest, out of Moore's work, I like V for Vendetta more than Watchment, but I also enjoyed Watchmen, for many of the same reasons. The layers, for one. Moore is so meticulous. Every panel counts. Every page counts. Every little thing in the background counts. I tend to find many comics have, unfortunately, little to offer on a second & third reading, but Watchmen is like a DVD with easter eggs. The "Tales of the Black Freighter" comic book within the comic book, the relationship to actual history, the ensemble of interesting, memorable characters, the moral conflicts and ambiguity, the unanswered questions. It covers a spectrum from intimate thought to cosmic consequence.

I just love the layers of it. And that's why I think, while it can be made into a good movie, it can't be made into a really satisfying movie for anyone who loves the graphic novel. Much like V for Vendetta. Which is one thing I love about Moore's best work. It maximizes the medium in such a way that it's almost impossible for an adaptation to do it justice.

After seeing the trailer for Watchmen, I have to agree.

There's a reason why better directors than Zack ("I'm a visionary!") Snyder have tried to do on celluloid what Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons did on paper and failed. Watchmen is too broad, too sprawling and too vast a story for any two hours in the dark to do much more than scratch the surface.

Snyder did a decent job of updating George Romero's Dawn of the Dead for the bloody appetites of today's youth who aren't particularly scared of hollow-eyed, ghouls shuffling toward them. 300 was an overrated piece of crap. It was okay in a non-think way if you like a lot of blue-screen special effects and homoerotic undertones, but it was hardly a quantum leap in movie-making technique.

Watching the Watchmen trailer doesn't excite me. It just makes me sigh with a mixture of boredom and vague irritation. I've had it up to here with the quick cross-cutting of images, the bombastic music booming out of my speakers and the one-liners that pass for dialogue.

I know I'm going to see it. Hell, I went to see The Wachowski Brothers butcher Moore's "V for Vendetta" (which is a better story than Watchmen), so why not.

I'm just not expecting anything more than a lot of familiar scenes from the book brought to life on screen. There's a certain "that's cool" factor involved, but I doubt I'll be overwhelmed by it in the same way I was by the original material.

:Shrug:

Cybernaught
07-20-2008, 06:53 PM
Okay, wait...what PART of the end are they changing?

Is it...the "3 million new yorkers die"

Or is it...something else?

Cause, if its the first thing, bad!

If its the other thing, still bad but not quite as bad!

I think it's just the circumstances.



**SPOILERS BELOW***








Like, maybe it's not a giant squid that gets teleported to NYC, but maybe some other means of mass destruction.

Cybernaught
07-20-2008, 06:56 PM
I think it's hard to judge a movie based on a teaser trailer, or ANY trailer for that matter. Too often I've left a movie commenting that the trailer was actually better than the film. It's merely a marketing tool to get people interested.

Of course they're going to concentrate on the flashy action scenes. And frankly, that's pretty much all the action in the GN. That's usually how it is. Teaser is all the action, regular trailer is the story.

Zoombie
07-20-2008, 07:50 PM
***spoilers***






Well, at least lots of people die. Though, frankly, the squid was awesome.

Cybernaught
07-20-2008, 08:09 PM
**SPOILERS***












Circumstances aside, I think the main thing that makes the ending so powerful is the choices that the characters make - How they can justify saving the world by killing 3,000,000, and how the novel's true villain only wants world peace - and they side with him in the end.

Remarkable piece of literature.

MattW
07-21-2008, 08:09 AM
I'm absolutely intrigued by the trailer - I never read the story and only heard things about it. I'm a poor excuse for a geek sometimes.

Zoombie
07-21-2008, 11:45 PM
I'm a writer's workshop where, once we learned that three of our members had not read Watchmen, we practically dragged them to B and N and forced them to buy a copy each.

underthecity
07-22-2008, 08:07 PM
We saw the trailer before The Dark Knight started. I was "wowed!" My wife said, "Why do you want to see that?" I was like, "What, are you kidding? It's Watchmen! Only one of the greatest, if not the greatest, graphic novel ever."

I think the trailer was ineffective for the non-Watchmen fan. For those of us who have read it, we were familiar with the characters and cuts of scenes. For anyone else, the reaction might be, "What the hell was that?"

Does it strike anyone else that the cast of actors look too young for the Watchmen crew? The characters in the book were in their 40s, or at least upper 30s, and the actors look like they're in their 20s or so. Or is it just me?

There was a good article in the new TV Guide about the movie, too.

allen

Jcomp
07-22-2008, 08:11 PM
It's one of those quirky Hollywood things. If you check the cast list, most of the actors are actually in their 30's and 40's. The 20-somethings are almost all pushing 30. But being beautiful damned Hollywood people they just look younger.

shawkins
07-22-2008, 08:13 PM
I think the trailer was ineffective for the non-Watchmen fan. For those of us who have read it, we were familiar with the characters and cuts of scenes. For anyone else, the reaction might be, "What the hell was that?"


I was wondering about that too. The person I saw DK with had never read Watchmen, but based on the trailer she wants to read it.



Does it strike anyone else that the cast of actors look too young for the Watchmen crew? The characters in the book were in their 40s, or at least upper 30s, and the actors look like they're in their 20s or so. Or is it just me?

Eh. I can see it. The book was about 40% flashback 60% modern times, IIRC. It's easier to make someone up to look older than it is to make them look younger, so the casting director erred on the side of young & pretty.

But Veidt...yikes. He was probably limited by child labor laws. He's the only one that really stood out to me as a WTF?

ChaosTitan
07-22-2008, 08:53 PM
I think the trailer was ineffective for the non-Watchmen fan. For those of us who have read it, we were familiar with the characters and cuts of scenes. For anyone else, the reaction might be, "What the hell was that?"


See, I had the exact opposite reaction. I've heard of Watchmen, but never read it. Mostly I avoided it because I've been working on a realistic-superhero novel of my own, and I didn't want any subconcious influences. Now that the book is done, I intend to pick up Watchmen (just have to wait until after I move next month).

Anyway, I thought the trailer, as a non-fan, was awesome. It made me sit up and go "dude!" Folks who like superheroes, SF, urban fantasy, etc... will probably get enough from the trailer to pique their interest. It certainly got mine.

katiemac
07-22-2008, 10:21 PM
I think the trailer was ineffective for the non-Watchmen fan. For those of us who have read it, we were familiar with the characters and cuts of scenes. For anyone else, the reaction might be, "What the hell was that?"

Yep, there was only one guy in my theater who clapped after seeing the trailer. I thought--That guy knows! Everyone else seemed a bit confused, ha ha. And my friends who knew I was excited about possibly seeing the trailer asked me after Dark Knight what the hell it was ... Although I have convinced one of them to read it.

Jcomp
07-22-2008, 11:28 PM
You know, re-watching the trailer, one thing that already sort of bugs me is that Zach's trademark (and admittedly impressive) visual flare doesn't really mesh with the Watchmen theme. One of the cool things about the book is how matter-of-factly it treats everything. The art is efficient and effective, but not especially astounding. The characters, save for Dr. Manhattan, are relatively down-to-earth. The story references Nixon and Vietnam and Kitty Genovese and other real, grounding events / places / people.

And, if the trailer is any indication, Zach's basically turning it into a slow-mo laden visual feast that might be sacrificing substance to style in a story that was notable for doing the opposite.

katiemac
07-26-2008, 12:46 AM
You know, re-watching the trailer, one thing that already sort of bugs me is that Zach's trademark (and admittedly impressive) visual flare doesn't really mesh with the Watchmen theme.

I rewatched the trailer. I don't know .. the slow-motion stylized stuff is definitely evident there, but a lot of the gritty textures are, too. What gets me is that you can place every scene in the trailer to its frame from the graphic novel, so I think that's pretty cool.

Jcomp
07-26-2008, 12:57 AM
I rewatched the trailer. I don't know .. the slow-motion stylized stuff is definitely evident there, but a lot of the gritty textures are, too. What gets me is that you can place every scene in the trailer to its frame from the graphic novel, so I think that's pretty cool.

Yeah, upon re-rewatching it (or re-re-re-re... you get the idea), I see what you mean. Attention has been paid to making it match the book, that much is evident.

I'm going to be cautiously optimistic about this. It has some potential.

katiemac
07-26-2008, 01:21 AM
Is it wrong that I really want a smiley face button splattered with blood?

Ageless Stranger
07-26-2008, 01:36 AM
Is everyone looking forward to this? I'm tempted to side with Alan Moore (hallelujah! hallelujah! Yes, I'm a fan boy, the shame!) on this one. I did not know there was a trailer though, I shall have to check this out.

Seen the trailer. It looks, okayish. Manhattan looks a little lame but fricken hell the glass fortress looks awesome.

Toothpaste
07-26-2008, 01:40 AM
I can see why Moore thinks the book is not possible to make into a film, and I appreciate the fact that he wanted to create a story that was unique to the medium of comic books. But I don't see how making a film lessens the original work. The original work will always exist. If anything it will bring a lot of new readers to the work (like me for example - who now considers herself a huge fan).

I have high hopes, and if it doesn't work I will be disappointed. But it isn't the end of the world if the movie doesn't capture the spirit of the comic. Just a pity.

katiemac
07-26-2008, 01:46 AM
Is everyone looking forward to this? I'm tempted to side with Alan Moore (hallelujah! hallelujah! Yes, I'm a fan boy, the shame!) on this one. I did not know there was a trailer though, I shall have to check this out.


I'm not getting totally excited. I'd like to see the real trailer rather than just the teaser before I get too involved, but there's no doubt I'll make it to the theaters for this one.

At its best, it's made me reread Moore's, and I'm finding it even better this time around (it's been a year since I first read it).

Ageless Stranger
07-26-2008, 01:46 AM
"I have high hopes, and if it doesn't work I will be disappointed. But it isn't the end of the world if the movie doesn't capture the spirit of the comic. Just a pity."


True, but I really don't want to be there if it doesn't work. Fans may eat human flesh and initiate the apocalypse.

Toothpaste
07-26-2008, 01:52 AM
True. "Fan" is short for "fanatic".

For me I appreciate everything Snyder has said so far about his vision, setting it in the 80s, not casting A-list actors, giving it an R rating, creating an animated "Black Freighter" for the DVD. The movie may suck after all that, but he seems pretty devoted to the source material. And from what I have heard, the script is pretty faithful as well. I know the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but I do appreciate at least that everyone involved is treating the material with respect and they really do want to make a movie that will compliment the comic. It could still such after all that, but at least there is respect in the making of it.

Ageless Stranger
07-26-2008, 01:55 AM
True. "Fan" is short for "fanatic".

For me I appreciate everything Snyder has said so far about his vision, setting it in the 80s, not casting A-list actors, giving it an R rating, creating an animated "Black Freighter" for the DVD. The movie may suck after all that, but he seems pretty devoted to the source material. And from what I have heard, the script is pretty faithful as well. I know the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but I do appreciate at least that everyone involved is treating the material with respect and they really do want to make a movie that will compliment the comic. It could still such after all that, but at least there is respect in the making of it.

I will admit, that's one thing I've heard thus far that inspires confidence. They're being very careful with this. Then again that may just be out of fear for the magician that is Alan Moore. He is one scary dude.

Jcomp
07-26-2008, 01:56 AM
True, but I really don't want to be there if it doesn't work. Fans may eat human flesh and initiate the apocalypse.

Curious. I usually engage in both activities as a show of approval for a film. Hmmm....

maxmordon
07-26-2008, 02:05 AM
True, but I really don't want to be there if it doesn't work. Fans may eat human flesh and initiate the apocalypse.

Not even in the face of armageddon. Never compromise

willietheshakes
07-26-2008, 02:09 AM
Is it wrong that I really want a smiley face button splattered with blood?

Heh. I used to have one. Now I need to replace it. And one for my son.

Ageless Stranger
07-26-2008, 02:11 AM
Not even in the face of armageddon. Never compromise


Epp! Fanatic!

*Karate CHOP*

Inkdaub
07-26-2008, 12:18 PM
I watched the trailer last night and I admit it looks pretty cool. I don't know, though. I just can't get excited for this movie. I wish they would stop making comic movies period...except Batman. I probably don't really mean that.

shawkins
07-26-2008, 06:15 PM
Is it wrong that I really want a smiley face button splattered with blood?

I've got one. Is it wrong that I wear it to work?

Toothpaste
07-26-2008, 06:24 PM
I watched the trailer last night and I admit it looks pretty cool. I don't know, though. I just can't get excited for this movie. I wish they would stop making comic movies period...except Batman. I probably don't really mean that.

It's really not a "comic movie". Okay it is. But it's a comic book movie about a comic book that was trying to elevate comic books to a new level. Trying to show superheros on a new level. The funny thing about the trailer is it gives this impression of superheros saving the world. Aside from in flashbacks, there are only two moments in the book in "present" time where the characters dress up in costume to be hero like. The rest of the time they are just normal people having "normal" problems.

Give this one a chance Inkdaub, it's not your average superhero comic book movie.

maestrowork
07-26-2008, 07:07 PM
I'm at Comic Con now but I missed the Watchmen panel -- there were about 500 people who got turned away (the hall could seat about 5000 or more). Anyway, but I did get to see Zack Snyder (the director) later and watched a few clips. It seems to me everyone at the con was a fan -- it's really quite phenomenal if you're here. Even Kevin Smith said it's like THE comic book and movie event of the 21st century. He's probably exaggerating but the level of anticipation and expectations is unbelievable. They also have like huge volumes of the comic book for sale. There are LOTS of fans at the con, that's for sure.

shawkins
07-31-2008, 09:37 PM
There are a couple of good Watchmen interviews up at chud.com: http://chud.com/articles/articles/15769/1/SDCC08-MALIN-ACKERMAN-CARLA-GUGINO-amp-PATRICK-WILSON-INTERVIEW-WATCHMEN/Page1.html

Toothpaste
07-31-2008, 09:50 PM
Awesome, thanks! It's great to hear from the girls every once in a while.

Actually Hardcore Nerdity (the site I work with) has a podcast about the Watchmen panel at Comic Con, and some pics of the Owl ship up if anyone is interested: www.hardcorenerdity.com

JamieFord
07-31-2008, 09:51 PM
I attended the Watchmen panel, with Zach Snyder and the entire cast. They showed a special preview (different than the trailer) and I have to admit, despite being skeptical, I was blown away. Visually, it looks so amazingly true to the comic. And when I heard the cast speak, I was sold. Most looked the part, but their personalities seemed strangely suited to their roles--especially Rorschach, Ozy and the Comedian. They all seemed to really "get" their characters and emoted that.

They're even putting the comic-within-a-comic, the Black Freighter, on the DVD.

maxmordon
08-14-2008, 10:25 PM
I attended the Watchmen panel, with Zach Snyder and the entire cast. They showed a special preview (different than the trailer) and I have to admit, despite being skeptical, I was blown away. Visually, it looks so amazingly true to the comic. And when I heard the cast speak, I was sold. Most looked the part, but their personalities seemed strangely suited to their roles--especially Rorschach, Ozy and the Comedian. They all seemed to really "get" their characters and emoted that.

They're even putting the comic-within-a-comic, the Black Freighter, on the DVD.

The Black Freighter will be starring the same actor that played King Leonidas in 300

Zoombie
08-15-2008, 03:40 AM
Starring the voice talents, right?

Cuase I actually thought that guy had a pretty good voice.

bethany
08-15-2008, 03:46 AM
I don't know anything about the Watchmen (sorry) but what was the song Billy Corgan was singing during the trailor? It's about time for a rocking Billy Corgan/SP song, in my estimation....

maxmordon
08-15-2008, 05:52 AM
I don't know anything about the Watchmen (sorry) but what was the song Billy Corgan was singing during the trailor? It's about time for a rocking Billy Corgan/SP song, in my estimation....

a slowed down version of "The Beginning is the End is the Beginning", by Smashing Pumpkins

Here you can hear a complete version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSPFNq2KsFE

Enjoy ;)

maxmordon
08-15-2008, 05:53 AM
Starring the voice talents, right?

Cuase I actually thought that guy had a pretty good voice.

Yeah, it's a cartoon

maxmordon
08-15-2008, 08:04 PM
Some pictures of the shooting. The ones that are links are spoilers:


http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii185/mad_musashi/07bernieandkovacs.png

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii185/mad_musashi/09haleyaskovacs2.png

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii185/mad_musashi/fat-dan-and-laurie.png

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii185/mad_musashi/more-fat-dan-and-laurie.png

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii185/mad_musashi/hiroshima-lovers.png

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii185/mad_musashi/pink-triangle-flier.png

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii185/mad_musashi/bernie-the-newsvendor.png

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii185/mad_musashi/tales-of-the-black-freighte.png

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii185/mad_musashi/veidt-method.png

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii185/mad_musashi/new-frontiersman.png

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii185/mad_musashi/rorschach-origin.png

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii185/mad_musashi/masons-auto-repair.png

katiemac
08-15-2008, 10:10 PM
Wow! The third image down ... shadow people on the alley walls... Nostalgia by Veidt..

I am completely sold.

maxmordon
08-15-2008, 10:27 PM
Wow! The third image down ... shadow people on the alley walls... Nostalgia by Veidt..

I am completely sold.

Same here, Kat. More pictures I see my expectations rise more and more...

If I end up heartbroken I will never watch another film from this guy again!

katiemac
08-19-2008, 10:00 PM
CRAP. (http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2008/08/watchmen-lawsui.html) 20th Century filed a lawsuit earlier this year against Warner Brothers, claiming they have the distribution rights for any Watchmen film, not WB. Today, the judge dismissed WB's response to drop the lawsuit.

Who knows how this could affect the film's release.

Toothpaste
08-19-2008, 10:02 PM
Let's just wait and see what happens. Not going to panic yet (she tells herself as her breathing becomes shallow).

Meanwhile check out some other cool photos here (http://www.hardcorenerdity.com).

Zoombie
08-19-2008, 10:05 PM
I want to go through those sets and just...gape at the sheer detail they're cramming into it.

Its like the panels of the comics have come to life!

kuwisdelu
09-05-2008, 08:51 PM
Thought I'd resurrect this thread with this news:

Watchmen May Not Be Delayed; Trial Set For January 2009. (http://geeksofdoom.com/2008/09/03/watchmen-may-not-be-delayed/)

Hopefully, the trial will be speedy and we'll get our March release.

I'm so excited for this movie. I just recently discovered this graphic novel after seeing the trailer attached to Dark Knight and nearly pissing myself. After having several people describing my main characters as very reminiscent of Rorschach, I figured I'd pick it up and read it. Damn, I was blown away.

I think with recent world events, the plot--despite the 1985 setting--will be particularly relevant to today's audiences. What do you think? How do the think the political setting of Watchmen will be received in light of current events (e.g., energy crisis, Russia's invasion of Georgia, elections, etc.)?

Sheryl Nantus
09-05-2008, 09:12 PM
Thought I'd resurrect this thread with this news:

Watchmen May Not Be Delayed; Trial Set For January 2009. (http://geeksofdoom.com/2008/09/03/watchmen-may-not-be-delayed/)

Hopefully, the trial will be speedy and we'll get our March release.

I'm so excited for this movie. I just recently discovered this graphic novel after seeing the trailer attached to Dark Knight and nearly pissing myself. After having several people describing my main characters as very reminiscent of Rorschach, I figured I'd pick it up and read it. Damn, I was blown away.

I think with recent world events, the plot--despite the 1985 setting--will be particularly relevant to today's audiences. What do you think? How do the think the political setting of Watchmen will be received in light of current events (e.g., energy crisis, Russia's invasion of Georgia, elections, etc.)?

I hope there's no mention of recent events AT ALL.

too many movies are making the mistake of trying to be Socially Revelant for the time and falling flat - the original "V for Vendetta" (another excellent Moore novel you should read) was set during the Thatcher years and reflected the thoughts and times THEN. The wretched movie attempted to drag it into present-day and start Bush-bashing. It didn't work, obviously, because THAT'S NOT WHAT THE COMIC WAS ABOUT. Trying to turn it into a commentary on today's social and political problems made it unwatchable and a farce of a movie.

I'm sick and tired of movies become social commentaries because they then date themselves and become obsolete before even being released. One of the reasons why Watchmen works so well is because it's an alternative universe so divided from our own that you don't have to sit back and try to draw parallels to today's world - and you shouldn't.

what's wrong with just enjoying a movie for what it is and not reading into the cracks some great social discussion? Entertain me - save the political diatribes for the documentaries...

imo, of course.

katiemac
09-05-2008, 09:27 PM
I have read articles where they've tweaked the "relative issues" a bit--nothing "current event" to smack us in the face, but more like energy is a big deal. Not really sure how they've tweaked it, but I'm not worried.

kuwisdelu
09-05-2008, 09:37 PM
I hope there's no mention of recent events AT ALL.


I have read articles where they've tweaked the "relative issues" a bit--nothing "current event" to smack us in the face, but more like energy is a big deal. Not really sure how they've tweaked it, but I'm not worried.

An early screenplay had changed the setting to modern times and introduced real current events into the mix. Zach Snyder decided to scrap that one and keep it in 1985, and stay as true as possible to the source material. There have been some minor tweaks, you're right, such as making energy a bigger issue, but as I understand it, it's all addressed in context of the alternate universe Moore and Gibbons created.

Celia Cyanide
09-05-2008, 11:44 PM
But according to Alan Moore, this graphic novel was created to do the things you can do with a graphic novel that you can't do with a film.

kuwisdelu
09-05-2008, 11:45 PM
But according to Alan Moore, this graphic novel was created to do the things you can do with a graphic novel that you can't do with a film.

That's true. Dave Gibbons seems to disagree. The trailer looks great.

Let's hope Mr. Moore is wrong.

Celia Cyanide
09-06-2008, 12:02 AM
That's true. Dave Gibbons seems to disagree. The trailer looks great.

When did he say he disagreed about that?

Watchmen was postmodern and influential when it came out, but if you take it out of that context and place it into a modern film adaptation, all it is is a story about a group of superheros, most of whom have no superpowers, and one who has all of them.

katiemac
09-07-2008, 09:03 AM
Watchmen was postmodern and influential when it came out, but if you take it out of that context and place it into a modern film adaptation, all it is is a story about a group of superheros, most of whom have no superpowers, and one who has all of them.

I'm not sure what you mean by this use of "modern." If you mean modern=film, then discount this post. What I've heard is the same as kuwisdelu, that they're keeping the story in its own world and context. I think its potential for influence is still there, just as someone picking up the graphic novel today can find influence in it.

maestrowork
09-07-2008, 06:56 PM
I haven't read the entire thread so this may have been discussed already.

Did anyone watch the animated version of the graphic novel? I downloaded it (first chapter) and it was really well done. It looks like they either scanned it or redrew it and then animated the panels (using Flash, maybe? Or some kind of 2D technology). I was impressed.

kuwisdelu
09-07-2008, 07:49 PM
When did he say he disagreed about that?

Watchmen was postmodern and influential when it came out, but if you take it out of that context and place it into a modern film adaptation, all it is is a story about a group of superheros, most of whom have no superpowers, and one who has all of them.

Around the time Batman Begins was coming out, I believe, he said he thought enough time had passed that he thought a movie adaption could be pulled off.

And do you mean modern film as in one filmed recently, or one filmed in which the setting's been changed to being recent? Because the setting's still 1985, and they're sticking pretty closely with the source material.


I haven't read the entire thread so this may have been discussed already.

Did anyone watch the animated version of the graphic novel? I downloaded it (first chapter) and it was really well done. It looks like they either scanned it or redrew it and then animated the panels (using Flash, maybe? Or some kind of 2D technology). I was impressed.

Not yet. I'll have to check that out.

Celia Cyanide
09-08-2008, 03:50 PM
Around the time Batman Begins was coming out, I believe, he said he thought enough time had passed that he thought a movie adaption could be pulled off.

That isn't really what I meant. It's probably not important, sorry...


And do you mean modern film as in one filmed recently, or one filmed in which the setting's been changed to being recent? Because the setting's still 1985, and they're sticking pretty closely with the source material.

What I meant by "modern" was that the movie is modern, because it's being made now. The idea of Watchmen was the concept of superheros being real. This is already something that modern superhero movies try to do. It was a post-modern idea when it was written.

kuwisdelu
09-08-2008, 08:57 PM
What I meant by "modern" was that the movie is modern, because it's being made now. The idea of Watchmen was the concept of superheros being real. This is already something that modern superhero movies try to do. It was a post-modern idea when it was written.

I think there's a lot more to Watchmen than the concept of superheroes being real. Its realistic approach was certainly very different at the time, but even after the treatments superheroes get in films today, the many other themes are more than powerful and different enough to carry the story and keep it "new" and "post-modern".

Celia Cyanide
09-08-2008, 09:36 PM
I think there's a lot more to Watchmen than the concept of superheroes being real.

Of course there is, but that concept was the driving force behind Watchmen when it was written.


Its realistic approach was certainly very different at the time, but even after the treatments superheroes get in films today, the many other themes are more than powerful and different enough to carry the story and keep it "new" and "post-modern".

How? How is this movie any different than any other superhero movie?

jst5150
09-08-2008, 09:59 PM
I read Watchmen several times. And while it was compelling, it didn't break any new ground. Alan Moore is a fantastic storyteller. This is one of his better works.

What is compelling about Superheroes is that they are NOT real. They the genre IS bigger than life. Yes, "The Dark Knight" succeeds because it walks very close to something nearer to hard-boiled detective vs. Adam West. However, the ore to be mined from the love of superheroes is that they'll save us. Also, that we have something to strive for. Also, there's an unconditional love theme there, too. And for the deviants, hundreds of men storming around in their underpants.

I agree with Celia. It's no different, other than the usual "save the day" plot has been smashed in the skull with the "Dynasty," "Dallas," and "Godfather" video catalogs.

nevada
09-09-2008, 02:29 AM
And for the deviants, hundreds of men storming around in their underpants.

Sign me up. Are they selling tickets already?

Cato
10-05-2008, 07:54 AM
Just read graphic novel. Amazing. Instant fan. Best novel I've read. Can't wait for film. Hard to show excitement when talking like this.

maxmordon
10-05-2008, 08:22 AM
Dog Carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face.

Have anyone seen Alan Moore doing Rorschach's voice?

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMF-Sv3eKoo

Cato
10-05-2008, 10:05 AM
Yeah, I've seen it. Didn't assume Rorschach to have a British accent :P

Personally, Ror's voice in the Watchmen trailer is exactly what I heard it as.

maxmordon
10-05-2008, 10:09 AM
Have you seen The Man Who Wasn't There? Ed's voice is how I imagine Rorscharch's voice

Celia Cyanide
10-05-2008, 07:03 PM
Yeah, I've seen it. Didn't assume Rorschach to have a British accent :P

Yeah, I think he probably sounds just like that, but American. It has that low, emotional quality to it.


Personally, Ror's voice in the Watchmen trailer is exactly what I heard it as.

I found it disconcerting in the trailer, and I was surprised when I realized it was supposed to be him.

Toothpaste
10-05-2008, 08:37 PM
His accent isn't British don't worry. Watch the trailer again and you will hear it is clearly American. I can't get over the other images of Ror without the mask, looks exactly like the book. Crazy.

ManyAk
10-05-2008, 09:01 PM
Personally, I am sick of superhero movies with powers and stuff like that. There's too many of them! That's why I'm not really interested in Watchmen.

Although, the director Zack Snyder, is, in my humble opinion, the perfect choice for that kind of film. So hopefully, it does good.

Zoombie
10-05-2008, 09:04 PM
Um...

Have you read watchmen?

ONE guy has powers, and he's trapped by them as much as anyone else!

ManyAk
10-05-2008, 09:12 PM
Um...

Have you read watchmen?

ONE guy has powers, and he's trapped by them as much as anyone else!

I haven't, but even if one guy has powers, you know that there's much more to that than that!

I'm just saying that to me, it's sad that these days people need that kind of entertainment. What happend original independent low-budget flicks that became masterpieces!?

maxmordon
10-05-2008, 10:07 PM
I haven't, but even if one guy has powers, you know that there's much more to that than that!

I'm just saying that to me, it's sad that these days people need that kind of entertainment. What happend original independent low-budget flicks that became masterpieces!?

The big studios from Hollywood created Miramax and Paramount Vintage so they could enter and invade that market, but that's for another argument...


Watchmen is NOT your usual comic book; it's the father of the modern graphic novel and the only graphic novel considered by Time magazine as one of the best US novels in 80 years and quite well earned.

Yes, it has its imitators making the 90's anti-hero stereotype that later Moore parodies in his Tomorrow Comics, but certainly has depth in so many levels and is not just men and women in tights fighting each other, but descontruct them, seeking why this people go around in middle of the night in underpants to fight the evil

Celia Cyanide
10-05-2008, 10:11 PM
His accent isn't British don't worry. Watch the trailer again and you will hear it is clearly American.

I wasn't talking about the voice in the trailer. I know it's an American actor. I just didn't think it sounded anything like how I would imagined he would sound. Alan Moore's voice, minus the British accent, is more how I imagined it.

In Watchmen, none of them have superpowers, except for Dr Manhatten, who has all of them. I wouldn't say he is "trapped" by them, though.

Zoombie
10-05-2008, 10:11 PM
What Maxmordon said.

PLUS some of the most well designed alternate histories I've seen in a while. Watchman's world is so real, and yet so alien at the same time. Its really fantastic, and FAR FAR FAR beyond what a "normal" comic book is.

Pick it up and read it...that will explain and demonstrate its potential far far better than a 50 page long post by me.

Doc Manhatten is trapped by his powers, becuase he see's time not as a straight line, which we do, but as a point. Everything has happened and has already happened and can't be changed. That's why he doesn't save Kennedy...because he CAN'T.

Trapped.

Toothpaste
10-05-2008, 10:59 PM
I find it funny when someone (especially someone who obviously hasn't read the book) rants about how they are sick to death of superhero movies and all this powers stuff and everything. Because that means that Watchmen is the PERFECT film/book for them. It is the anti-superhero book. None of the characters have powers, they are just ordinary people who think it would be cool to be superheroes. They are deeply flawed, and not even all that good at what they do.

And while Dr. Manhattan does have powers, the explanation behind them, and the fact that these powers are all consuming, the fact that he is no longer the person he once was when he didn't have them, the fact that he is basically no longer human, well that makes his powers all the more realistic.

I also don't know what you mean by the phrase, ManyAk: "but even if one guy has powers, you know that there's much more to that than that!"

Also there is nothing wrong with independent films, they are getting produced all the time. Have you heard the buzz about Rachel Getting Married? But don't look at the past through rose coloured glasses. There were films of every era that pandered to the lowest common denominator (plenty of "Beverly Hills Chihuahua"s of their day). Yup all the way back to the black and white films, some are just ridiculous.

Lastly, just because you find it difficult to suspend your disbelief and watch a film that involves "magic" does not make those films automatically bad. If you went to see Dark Knight you would see that a) there is no super powers to be seen and b) that the film deals with some pretty deep subject matter. If you saw the first two Spidermans, which do have superpowers, you would see a story about a boy trying to come to terms with growing up and having great power. You would also see a very fun movie, that serves as an excellent distraction.

Just because these movies are being made doesn't mean the others are not. Look at the Oscar contenders for the last two years and tell me there aren't some masterpieces of film out in the world today. It's a bit condescending, to be honest, to give your pity to the world that they have to suffer through superhero movies, especially when a lot of people here are big fans of said movies.

Zoombie
10-05-2008, 11:38 PM
...what Toothpast said.

Hear hear!

her her?

JamieFord
10-06-2008, 12:55 AM
Toothpaste nailed it.

Watchmen is a post-modern take on the genre. Perfect for those that hate the Batman type characters of 60s TV.

kuwisdelu
10-06-2008, 02:28 AM
Personally, I preferred Rorschach's voice in the trailer to Alan Moore's depiction. Exactly how I imagined it.

Cato
10-06-2008, 05:09 AM
I think I heard somewhere that Dan Snyder said (Maybe it was this thread, lol) that whether he directs it or not, a Watchmen movie will be made sometime. He said that he needed to step in and direct it as best as he can and with the respect of a huge fan, before some other director did and butchered it. He seems like a really down to earth, cool guy. I hope he does well.

ManyAk
10-06-2008, 05:31 AM
To make what I said clearer, I just want to mention that I have not read Watchmen, I've only seen the trailer. And the trailer, at least to me, looked like another of those superhero movies with the ultra budget so they can add amazing special effects. I have nothing against them, some of them are excellent (The Incredible Hulk, The Dark Knight), but it's just that personally, I am tired of them. There are TONS of original indy films out there ready to be produced.

But I get what you guys mean, and to be honest, now I want to see it, heh. I'll get my hands on the graphic novel first, of course.

Zoombie
10-06-2008, 05:35 AM
Well, the scenes they showed were pretty much the ONLY superhero/actiony stuff in the entire comic book!

Celia Cyanide
10-08-2008, 07:41 AM
Personally, I preferred Rorschach's voice in the trailer to Alan Moore's depiction. Exactly how I imagined it.

That might be because you heard it first.

kuwisdelu
10-09-2008, 07:42 AM
That might be because you heard it first.

Possibly, but I think Moore's version was just too slow.

maxmordon
11-02-2008, 08:31 AM
Second Teaser (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0NaT4FWchk)

Now I am starting to have my doubts, I don't know why...

Bravo
11-02-2008, 09:00 AM
In Watchmen, none of them have superpowers, except for Dr Manhatten, who has all of them. I wouldn't say he is "trapped" by them, though.

not sure if "trapped" by them is the right word, but he definitely loses his humanity because of them. that's the entire point of his character, he essentially becomes a detached god.

that said, i'm not really looking forward to this movie. i dont quite know what to make of a trailer that makes owlman the batman, owlman in the comics is middle aged and fat, he's a joke, a parody of batman.

i dont know if this movie really has the tone down.

but who knows.

katiemac
11-02-2008, 09:46 AM
Second Teaser (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0NaT4FWchk)

Now I am starting to have my doubts, I don't know why...

Interesting. Not too different from the first. More Silk Spectre though.

I have to admit, they sort of got me with the last scene--Comedian out the window followed by the smiley button. If there's one thing I am guaranteed to like about this film, it's Jeffrey Dean Morgan as the Comedian.

SPMiller
11-02-2008, 10:01 AM
Seems they took all the action scenes from the movie and crammed them into a short trailer. Plus more tits.

Marketing, folks.

Granted, the movie could easily end up being terribad.

maxmordon
11-02-2008, 10:19 AM
I have to admit, they sort of got me with the last scene--Comedian out the window followed by the smiley button. If there's one thing I am guaranteed to like about this film, it's Jeffrey Dean Morgan as the Comedian.

Ditto.

Toothpaste
11-02-2008, 07:24 PM
Still have it from very reliable sources that it is going to be fantastic. Of course in the end it's up to each of us to make up our own minds on this one. Personally the trailer was pretty much much of the same as the previous one . . . which concerns me because all the scenes they showed are pretty much the few with them dressed up as superheroes, and as we know those scenes are actually not many. I hope the marketing people aren't scared and have decided to market this as big comic book action blockbuster . . . because that is going to turn off a lot of people who actually would really love this film (that is if it holds true to the book) because it is the antithesis of the typical comic book blockbuster.

Celia Cyanide
11-02-2008, 11:34 PM
Still have it from very reliable sources that it is going to be fantastic.

Can I ask what they are?


I hope the marketing people aren't scared and have decided to market this as big comic book action blockbuster . . .

It looks like that is what is happening.

katiemac
11-02-2008, 11:50 PM
It looks like that is what is happening.

It's still early. I think the actual trailer is going to give us a better depiction of the story. Like I said awhile back, my friends who do not know Watchmen saw the first trailer in front of Dark Knight and went "WTF?" And they like regular comic book movies.

Come January, I think we'll be getting a range of trailers and marketing--ones geared toward the existing fanbase and ones geared toward the blockbuster types.

Toothpaste
11-03-2008, 12:12 AM
Can I ask what they are?


I have a friend who is good friends with the screenwriter for the film (also did X-Men I and II).

I know that could therefore make him a bit biased, but what happened with his screenplay was really interesting. He had written a treatment several years ago, when there were talks of doing it with a different director and cast. When Snyder finally came on board he went through this screenwriter's treatment and started to pick through it for stuff he wanted in the film. He wound up using so much of it that now the screenwriter has been given credit for it. The point though is, that even though he is the screenwriter, he has still been somewhat distanced from the film, so that when he saw a screening of the rough cut he was still able to watch it with fresh eyes. Of course he couldn't share with us WHAT made it so awesome, merely that it was awesome, and that was still before the final effects etc were added into it.

Anyway, adding that to everything I've heard Snyder and the actors say, as well as Dave Gibbons's reaction to what he's seen . . . I'm feeling pretty good about this movie . . .

Toothpaste
11-03-2008, 09:27 AM
I must be in a name dropping frame of mind, but I just got back from this party where I got to meet Dave Gibbons! (artist for Watchmen) It was so cool! He was signing so much stuff, and then someone wanted him to draw Dr. Manhattan's symbol onto their forehead, and then everyone wanted one! Gibbons happily obliged. Very nice guy, just chatting with everyone. Anyway . . . sorry . . . kind of off topic . . .but I just had to share!

Wavy_Blue
11-15-2008, 04:41 AM
X2 is one of my favorite movies ever. That scriptwriter plus Zak Snyder...how could it be bad?

Bravo
11-16-2008, 12:43 AM
new watchmen trailer has made me a believer:

http://www.firstshowing.net/2008/11/13/must-watch-second-full-trailer-for-zack-snyders-watchmen/

this is quite possibly one of the greatest movie trailers i have ever seen.

Celia Cyanide
11-16-2008, 12:53 AM
Wow. The first half of that second trailer is a million times better than the whole first one.

I'm still going to give it a miss, though.

Bravo
11-16-2008, 12:55 AM
im happy w just the trailer.

lots of sloooow shots make me a lil skeptical of the actual movie.

maxmordon
11-16-2008, 02:38 AM
lots of sloooow shots make me a lil skeptical of the actual movie.

Yeah, those also started to make me a bit skeptical as well... I don't want to get my heart broken...

Bravo
11-16-2008, 02:50 AM
aaand there's a couple other things that make me pause. dr. manhattan's voice is just off, they shouldve made it more otherworldly.

and did rorschach refer to the group as "watchmen"? :ROFL:

please say no.

Ageless Stranger
11-16-2008, 03:43 AM
This looks worse and worse by the second.

Definitely not looking forward to it.

maxmordon
11-16-2008, 04:26 AM
aaand there's a couple other things that make me pause. dr. manhattan's voice is just off, they shouldve made it more otherworldly.

and did rorschach refer to the group as "watchmen"? :ROFL:

please say no.

And they are making a video game...

Jcomp
11-16-2008, 04:49 AM
Not feeling Rorschach's voice at all. I always imagined it far less gruff. More precise, relaxed, almost indifferent and unfeeling.

And I agree with Bavo about Dr. Manhattan's voice, which sounds way too much like a regular ass dude speaking. It lacks authority and strength.

maxmordon
11-16-2008, 05:06 AM
Be affraid... there are rumours that Ozymandias will have a German accent

God save us all!

SPMiller
11-16-2008, 05:06 AM
new watchmen trailer has made me a believer:

http://www.firstshowing.net/2008/11/13/must-watch-second-full-trailer-for-zack-snyders-watchmen/

this is quite possibly one of the greatest movie trailers i have ever seen.That poster below the trailer is damn near stolen wholesale from Blade Runner. They even threw in the blimp with the spotlights and advertising screen.

maxmordon
11-16-2008, 05:21 AM
Anybody knows the song(s) of the new trailer? or is it an original song? is there anything original in Hollywood nowadays?

katiemac
11-16-2008, 05:22 AM
aaand there's a couple other things that make me pause. dr. manhattan's voice is just off, they shouldve made it more otherworldly.

and did rorschach refer to the group as "watchmen"? :ROFL:

please say no.

I'm hoping that was a dub-over just for the trailer's sake.

Much better trailer though, but I had a hard time with the music. Man, I've said it already but ... the Comedian. Love him.

kuwisdelu
11-16-2008, 06:47 AM
Anybody knows the song(s) of the new trailer? or is it an original song? is there anything original in Hollywood nowadays?

It's "Take a Bow" by Muse. Some of their music was in 300, too.


I love the new trailer. The only thing that really got me was Rorschach referring to the group as "watchmen." That's wrong O_o Other than that, I'm still excited. I like Rorschach's voice, and I don't really mind which way they go with Dr. Manhattan's.

maxmordon
11-16-2008, 07:18 AM
It's "Take a Bow" by Muse. Some of their music was in 300, too.




Thanks!

Toothpaste
11-16-2008, 07:27 AM
Wow. The first half of that second trailer is a million times better than the whole first one.

I'm still going to give it a miss, though.

Genuinely curious. Why?

(as for the trailer, I like what I've seen, not as much what I've heard. Rorschach's voice is just not how I pictured it. On the other hand Dreiberg and the Comedian are PERFECT. I know Snyder is doing his slow-mo thing, that's his signature style, but I don't think it takes away from the film, some of the shots are ridiculously close to the graphic novel, so I am pretty sure he's not infusing too much crazy into it. I am very very excited still about this one, but more because of what I know about the story, and less with what these trailers are showing us. I really wish they would stop advertising it as a super hero movie. It isn't one.)

Bravo
11-16-2008, 07:44 AM
I really wish they would stop advertising it as a super hero movie. It isn't one.)

maybe that's what snyder made.


after all he did have rorsch calling the group "the watchmen" :(

Inkdaub
11-16-2008, 03:33 PM
I'm sure I'll see it but I'm not that into it.

Toothpaste
11-16-2008, 07:41 PM
maybe that's what snyder made.


after all he did have rorsch calling the group "the watchmen" :(

No he didn't. As I already said, I have excellent sources that tell me it is very much the graphic novel. It's the marketing department right now who are cutting together the trailers. I think they don't know how to advertise it and are therefore going to the "safe" bet of super hero movie. Which is all wrong because it is turning off people who otherwise might love this film.

As to "The Watchmen" reference, it sounds a lot like a dub to me. If you listen to it in context of the line, it sounds off, and the sentence doesn't quite work. They do that all the time with trailers so that the audience gets it right away and understands where the title comes from. The first time watching this trailer even, I was almost certain it was added in for "clarity" sake. (a bit like how they moved "Skidoosh" in the "Kung Fu Panda" trailer)

Honestly, it's hard not to, but really try to judge a trailer not from the voice work or the editing, but the images therin. Though even that is tricky. Did anyone see the trailer for "Bridge to Terabithia"? It looked like a classic fantasy movie, and if anyone knows the book, there is absolutely no real fantasy in it. I was really confused. Then I saw the movie, and it was exactly like the books, and there were maybe two short bits in the movie where the kids "saw" their fantasy world. But it was those small moments that the marketing dept had put in the trailer so they completely misrepresented the film.

Now of course I can't say for sure, as I haven't seen "Watchmen" yet myself. But I have now chatted with two people who know their stuff who saw a rough cut of the film, and they were totally blown away by it. I'm still incredibly confident in this film.

Celia Cyanide
11-16-2008, 09:28 PM
Genuinely curious. Why?

I think I've stated it before, but I think Watchmen is the last graphic novel that should ever be adapted into a movie. Alan Moore described it as "almost the exact opposite of cinematic." I could watch the damn thing, but why should I when I can just read it? People keep commenting on how "confident" they are that it will be an accurate representation of the graphic novel, but I could not care less. It is utterly superfluous to me.

As others have said, the show shots are putting me off, and so are the voices. I agree completely with Bravo about Dr Manhattan's voice. I never liked the first trailer, and I could never understand why people were so excited to see it.

kuwisdelu
11-16-2008, 11:44 PM
I never liked the first trailer, and I could never understand why people were so excited to see it.

:Shrug: Some people happen to disagree, that's all.

It's very possible to imagine different voices for characters, and, hell, even disagree with the writer of a work you admire. Who really thought Lord of the Rings was film-able, either?

Celia Cyanide
11-17-2008, 12:26 AM
:Shrug: Some people happen to disagree, that's all.

Obviously. I don't really care. I just don't think the trailer looks any more interesting than anything else, and has nothing to offer. I watched it, thinking, they're making a movie based on the graphic novel. If I didn't know what the graphic novel was, I would not think anything at all.



It's very possible to imagine different voices for characters, and, hell, even disagree with the writer of a work you admire.

Thank you, but I do understand that it's possible to disagree with a writer you admire. I happen to think he is correct, in this case. It's not that I think I can't disagree with him. I do disagree with him often, as my favorite of his books is apparently one he does not care for.

What I like about Watchmen, and what I have always liked about it, is that it was post modern when it was written, and it emphasizes what graphic novels do that other art forms do not. I simply don't want to see it.

jst5150
12-25-2008, 07:40 PM
Uh oh:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/25/business/media/25fox.html?_r=1


LOS ANGELES — In a surprise ruling, a federal judge in Los Angeles said he intended to grant 20th Century Fox’s claim that it owns a copyright interest in the “Watchmen,” a movie shot by Warner Brothers and Legendary Pictures and set for release in March.

The decision was disclosed in a five-page written order issued on Wednesday. Gary A. Feess, a judge in the United States District Court for Central California, said he would provide a more detailed order soon.

Fox has been seeking to prevent Warner from releasing the film. The superhero adventure, based on the “Watchmen” graphic novel, is being directed by Zack Snyder (who also directed “300”) and has shaped up as one of most eagerly anticipated releases for next year.

Toothpaste
12-25-2008, 08:08 PM
I'll wait to see what happens, but I think Fox is going to hold out for money. I think they'll be perfectly happy to air the film, as long as they are paid handsomely for it. Still . . . must admit I feel a bit nervous . . . I am DYING to see this movie . . .

shawkins
12-27-2008, 04:24 AM
Panel 1: Ext. of a modest house in northumberland.
Overlay: Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Caption: Alan Moore's house.

(He's wanted nothing to do with the movies made from his work, and particularly not the Watchmen movie.)

childeroland
12-27-2008, 04:47 AM
Considering how DC screwed him (and Gibbons) out of royalties made from Watchmen 'promo' items, I think Moore would be laughing his ass off.

kuwisdelu
12-27-2008, 05:40 AM
I'll wait to see what happens, but I think Fox is going to hold out for money. I think they'll be perfectly happy to air the film, as long as they are paid handsomely for it. Still . . . must admit I feel a bit nervous . . . I am DYING to see this movie . . .

I'm with you there.

I doubt Fox has any problem letting the film play...as long as they get their share of money.

They better not cause it to be delayed though...

dragonjax
12-27-2008, 08:55 AM
Yeah. Grrrr.

Doesn't it suck when business gets in the way of art?

childeroland
12-27-2008, 09:23 AM
I'm with you there.

I doubt Fox has any problem letting the film play...as long as they get their share of money.

They better not cause it to be delayed though...

It looks like both studios asked the court to issue a summary judgment rather than try to work this out themselves. Maybe this could be because they want to end this quickly and thus the March release date might not be endangered? :Shrug:

shawkins
12-28-2008, 02:52 AM
Considering how DC screwed him (and Gibbons) out of royalties made from Watchmen 'promo' items, I think Moore would be laughing his ass off.

Oh, yeah, I don't blame him a bit. In addition to being peeved about the royal screwing he got, I actually do believe he's got aesthetic objections (and probably a good point) that adapting from the comics medium to film will lessen the impact of the work.

But I'm a lesser man than Alan Moore, and on March 6th I'm either going to be in a theater watching Watchmen1 or part of the large mob of nerds with torches gathered outside the Fox corporate offices.

BTW, have you guys seen The Mindscape of Alan Moore? It hit DVD not long ago. I thought it was quite good.


1 Heh.

katiemac
12-28-2008, 03:24 AM
One interesting article I read seemed like it was placing the blame not on Warner Bros. or Fox, but on producer Larry Gordon. According to the agreement between Gordon and Fox, Gordon had to offer Fox any new version of a Watchmen screenplaywhen he put one together. He had no right to take it to Warner Bros. in the first place. It's not like Warner Bros. started this whole thing from scratch, even though they never should have signed on to make the film. I'm wondering, after Fox is done suing Warner Bros., if Warner Bros. is going to sue the pants off of Gordon.

How early on did Fox know Warner Bros. was making the film? It's interesting the decision is only happening now and wasn't shut down, you know, before Warner Bros. shelled out millions of dollars to make it.

I'm not sure this court ruling is going to affect the release date, unless whatever amount of money ends up being owed to Fox is more than Warner Bros. expects out of profits. Sucks on both ends, though. I do feel bad for Warner Bros. in this situation, although I can't help but think they knew what they were doing when they greenlit the project.

nevada
12-30-2008, 05:52 AM
not good news.


An attorney for 20th Century Fox says the studio will continue to seek an order delaying the release of 'Watchmen.'

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/Entertainment/EntertainmentNewsArticle.htm?src=e122925A.xml

shawkins
12-30-2008, 06:02 AM
Fox Corporate Headquarters: 1211 Avenue of the Americas (Sixth Ave.), New York, NY

Recommended equipment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX9Awtuwc1k

http://roicopy.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/windowslivewriter4554c773c2b6-7df2angry-villagers22.jpg

jst5150
12-30-2008, 06:49 PM
More from the Hollywood Reporter:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i2f608e22d68972d46379b89dd7da0b06


Monday's events seem to be a speed bump to a costly settlement, with the hardline postures likely a strategic move for both sides more than anything else. Fox, which finally snapped a long boxoffice losing streak with "Marley & Me," gains most with a settlement, not a blocked release; the studio is already taking a beating in the geek blogosphere for messing with a fan-favorite property. Warners, meanwhile, could be on the hook for millions for developing and then filming a movie in which the film's producer, Larry Gordon, didn't pay Fox turnaround fees after allegedly reacquiring rights to the property.

maxmordon
01-08-2009, 04:33 AM
New footage on Myspace:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=48917596

Toothpaste
01-08-2009, 06:30 AM
Here's the Japanese trailer for it! SO cool, with so many new scenes! If they postpone its release I'm going to . . . mutter mutter mutter. . .

http://www.hardcorenerdity.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2239098%3ABlogPost%3A32420

maxmordon
01-08-2009, 06:45 AM
Awesome! though chuck full of spoilers

Teleute
01-08-2009, 07:06 AM
Thank you, but I do understand that it's possible to disagree with a writer you admire. I happen to think he is correct, in this case. It's not that I think I can't disagree with him. I do disagree with him often, as my favorite of his books is apparently one he does not care for.

I have to know: which book is that?


Oh, yeah, I don't blame him a bit. In addition to being peeved about the royal screwing he got, I actually do believe he's got aesthetic objections (and probably a good point) that adapting from the comics medium to film will lessen the impact of the work.

In this instance, I agree with him. It's like trying to turn Sandman into a movie; even with a trilogy, it just would. not. work. If one actually included all the characters/relationships/nuances/themes/etc., it would be a MESS of a film. And if one didn't, it wouldn't be a good representation of the work. I mean, for chrissakes, look at what happened to V for Vendetta. Some graphic novels adapt to the big screen very well; look at Sin City and A History of Violence. Some just... don't. There's too much there.

I also agree with Alan Moore on having a major problem with Snyder directing this film, he having done the xenophobic, homophobic, racist 300. Poor guy; I would be so pissed.

Celia Cyanide
01-08-2009, 07:49 AM
I have to know: which book is that?

The Killing Joke. He thinks it's just not very good. I absolutely love it. I read it when I was just a little too young to be reading something that hardcore, but just old enough to appreciate the characterization and the story. When I was a kid, I was all about the characters. I would pretty much read anything with Batman in it. The Joker was never my favorite Batman villain, but after reading that book, I began to appreciate him. He absolutely terrified me. I loved that they used his convoluted past in TDK. To this day, it's the only Joker story I find more chilling than A Death In The Family.

Teleute
01-08-2009, 08:00 AM
The Killing Joke. He thinks it's just not very good. I absolutely love it. I read it when I was just a little too young to be reading something that hardcore, but just old enough to appreciate the characterization and the story. When I was a kid, I was all about the characters. I would pretty much read anything with Batman in it. The Joker was never my favorite Batman villain, but after reading that book, I began to appreciate him. He absolutely terrified me. I loved that they used his convoluted past in TDK. To this day, it's the only Joker story I find more chilling than A Death In The Family.

Huh. That's interesting. I never really liked Moore all up in my Batman. I prefer him writing Superman.

As for me, my favorite Alan Moore is Love and Death. I had to ask because so few people who love Moore have ever read his Swamp Thing run, which was what got me into comics in the first place.

dragonjax
01-09-2009, 09:26 AM
The Killing Joke. He thinks it's just not very good. I absolutely love it. I read it when I was just a little too young to be reading something that hardcore, but just old enough to appreciate the characterization and the story. When I was a kid, I was all about the characters. I would pretty much read anything with Batman in it. The Joker was never my favorite Batman villain, but after reading that book, I began to appreciate him. He absolutely terrified me. I loved that they used his convoluted past in TDK. To this day, it's the only Joker story I find more chilling than A Death In The Family.

Loved, loved, LOVED TKJ. Absolutely the best Joker story I've read. I liked ADitF also, but that didn't move me nearly as much. Then again, not really apples to apples... (and Jason always pissed me off).

Zoombie
01-09-2009, 10:18 AM
OH wow the Killing Joke was amazing!

Imagining Heath Ledger reading all the Joker's lines works surprisingly well!

My reaction to the Japanese trailer:

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE spoilersEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESPOILERSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESPOILERS!EEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEE

Celia Cyanide
01-09-2009, 08:35 PM
Loved, loved, LOVED TKJ. Absolutely the best Joker story I've read. I liked ADitF also, but that didn't move me nearly as much. Then again, not really apples to apples... (and Jason always pissed me off).

I never liked Jason much, either, but his death was the most interesting thing about him. I loved the effect it had on Batman. He knew that this kid died because he put him out there when he wasn't ready. He was lonely, and he wanted Dick back, and he did a very irresponsible thing.

Celia Cyanide
01-09-2009, 08:37 PM
OH wow the Killing Joke was amazing!

Imagining Heath Ledger reading all the Joker's lines works surprisingly well!

I will have to try that! His Joker reminds me very much of that book.

Toothpaste
01-16-2009, 09:29 PM
Watchmen lawsuit resolved. (http://www.hardcorenerdity.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2239098%3ABlogPost%3A33735)

dragonjax
01-17-2009, 01:17 AM
A piece of the sequels, eh? Heh.

Toothpaste
01-17-2009, 01:22 AM
I know. lol.

Pike
01-18-2009, 08:24 PM
Mmm... money, money, money, money. Ya, they totally know what they've been fighting for.

shawkins
01-18-2009, 09:09 PM
Who knows? If they get Alan Moore to write the sequels, they might be good. ;)

maxmordon
01-23-2009, 09:15 AM
Viral Campaign has started! (http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/watchmen/nbc-nightly-news-march-11-1970)

katiemac
02-12-2009, 02:46 AM
I've just seen a new four-minute studio-released featurette. The footing isn't a whole lot of new things that were already released but the stuff that IS new ... holy crap. This is seriously panel-to-panel footage.

Also got my WATCHMEN T-shirt and bloody smiley face button today, as well as a sneak at some of the other Watchmen promo items the studio has.

Say it with me now: I AM SO EXCITED.

maxmordon
02-12-2009, 03:37 AM
I've just seen a new four-minute studio-released featurette. The footing isn't a whole lot of new things that were already released but the stuff that IS new ... holy crap. This is seriously panel-to-panel footage.

Also got my WATCHMEN T-shirt and bloody smiley face button today, as well as a sneak at some of the other Watchmen promo items the studio has.

Say it with me now: I AM SO EXCITED.


I AM SPART... ehem... SO EXCITED

childeroland
02-12-2009, 03:39 AM
Who knows? If they get Alan Moore to write the sequels, they might be good. ;)

Yeah, right after hell freezes over, free money rains down from the sky and Chris Brown's career recovers.:roll:

katiemac
02-12-2009, 08:00 AM
Who knows? If they get Alan Moore to write the sequels, they might be good. ;)


Yeah, right after hell freezes over, free money rains down from the sky and Chris Brown's career recovers.:roll:

Considering Alan Moore has completely disassociated himself with the film (you won't even see his name as a credit on the movie), I'm with childeroland on this one.

Zoombie
02-12-2009, 12:43 PM
I SAW A TRAILER FOR THIS!

My GF didn't know what hte heck it was...but she was like, "That...looks...SO...COOL!"

Then I dragged her out of the sofa.

And danced.

shawkins
02-12-2009, 05:57 PM
Considering Alan Moore has completely disassociated himself with the film (you won't even see his name as a credit on the movie), I'm with childeroland on this one.

Oh, absolutely. I consider a Moore sequel to Watchmen to be about as likely as Nixon getting elected again in 2012.

Goodchild
02-13-2009, 12:07 AM
A friend suggested I watch Little Children to see exactly why they picked Jackie Earle Haley to play Rorschach...that's all I'll say; wow!

katiemac
02-13-2009, 09:47 PM
I'm leaving in approximately 20 minutes to go see the film. A pre- pre- pre- screening, if you will. I'll let you all know, no spoilers, what I think when I get back.

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

Toothpaste
02-14-2009, 12:19 AM
WHAT??? How did you get that?? And and . . . can I go back in time, fly to where you live, and be your date??

dragonjax
02-14-2009, 01:26 AM
I'm leaving in approximately 20 minutes to go see the film. A pre- pre- pre- screening, if you will. I'll let you all know, no spoilers, what I think when I get back.

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

You have no idea how jealous I am. Wait, maybe you do. :)

Soooooooo????? HOW WAS IT????

dragonjax
02-14-2009, 01:27 AM
WHAT??? How did you get that?? And and . . . can I go back in time, fly to where you live, and be your date??

Can I be your bodyguards? Because, you know, there can be, um, danger at pre-screenings.

katiemac
02-14-2009, 03:23 AM
OKAY. I am BACK. I got out of it about an hour and a half ago and I'm still letting it sink in. I don't want to say the wrong thing, so I want to be very careful about what I report. Please be careful reading this. I'm only discussing the technical stuff, but still. Some might consider that spoilers.

First: Jackie Earle Haley as Rorschach is pure perfection. Jeffrey Dean Morgan is a great Comedian.

The portrayal of some of the other characters had to grow on me a bit, particularly Billy Crudup's Dr. Manhattan, but he definitely did. I don't think I ever quite settled with the actors playing Laurie and Adrien.

HOWEVER, it's intact. The whole story is there, minus Black Freighter stuff, and I can't think of anything from the graphic novel that is missing, aside from some stuff that I knew going into it was different. It doesn't feel crunched for time, but at the same time there are a few moments--moments, not scenes--where something might be a little off. I blame this on the fact they didn't completely nail the format, but other stuff was really, really fantastic.

Visually, it's superb, and I include the super-stylized, slow-motion scenes in that. I don't think quick action fight scenes, like in Spider-man, would have worked thematically. This isn't to say everything is slow-motion.

You'll recognize a lot of the lines, including Rorschach's journal, as being straight from the book. Snyder did some really interesting things with the opening credits to acclimate audience members who aren't familiar with the book.

Minor quibbles, as already discussed in this thread: "Watchmen" is the actual references to the group of masks, it wasn't a dub-over. The soundtrack was a bit funky, but I'm not sure if it's me not being used to the story having a soundtrack.

Overall, it really was fantastic. I need to keep my over-the-top squealing contained until I see it for a second time, so I can see whether my quibbles are legitimate or because I was being incredibly judgmental. I'm still letting it all sink in.

ETA: The individuals who I was with, one of whom has never read the book, both enjoyed it. The one who is a fan of the graphic novel loved the film. The one who hadn't read it said it was kind of confusing, and I don't blame her. Everyone who came out of the theater, only 20 or so others, also really enjoyed it. I heard quite a few "needs a second viewing," things, because of the scale of it all. Based on the crowd I was with, I think the majority of them had already read the book.

childeroland
02-14-2009, 05:10 AM
How is Matthew Goode as Ozymandias? I've read some early reviews complaining his performance is relatively weak.

maxmordon
02-14-2009, 05:33 AM
Yay! This is gonna be huge!

katiemac
02-14-2009, 05:39 AM
How is Matthew Goode as Ozymandias? I've read some early reviews complaining his performance is relatively weak.

I think he lacked punch, personally. There was time in particular where I think a good moment flustered because of his delivery. But I'm only one person.

dragonjax
02-14-2009, 08:35 AM
But I'm only one person.

Still absorbing the fact that you saw the movie already. :)

katiemac
02-14-2009, 08:38 AM
Still absorbing the fact that you saw the movie already. :)

You or me? Cause yeah, I definitely am. I saw a trailer during Dollhouse and went "ooh yay!"

And then I went ... "Wait, I saw it!"

Romantic Heretic
02-14-2009, 05:30 PM
Whew. I was worried it would be a disaster on par with The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

Okay, it's on my list of movies to see in the theatre.

katiemac
02-14-2009, 11:04 PM
Yeah, it's not a disaster. But it was hard for me to say "it was awesome, I loved it," being unsure if the film translation encompassed the feeling of the graphic novel. But there's really no reason the audience shouldn't feel the same way unless there's something off about the actors.

After digesting it more, I really did like the slow-motion effects. Because, essentially, you'd have some quick action shots and then they'd slow down to capture one particular moment, just like a graphic novel panel. I know it's Snyder's style, but it was really quite neat for the situation.


I'll stop talking about it now. :D

maestrowork
02-15-2009, 11:00 PM
I really like Snyder's visual style, so I have high hopes for this. The previews look very promising (and very stylish). But I guess I'll have to see it like any other normal person. :-P

I've got to get myself a press pass so I can go to screenings!

katiemac
02-15-2009, 11:07 PM
If you haven't read the graphic novel yet, Ray, I suggest you do.

Romantic Heretic
02-15-2009, 11:44 PM
I'll recommend reading it just because. :)

maxmordon
02-22-2009, 04:38 AM
More viral vids!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCpl3MLVwUc

Zoombie
03-02-2009, 09:43 PM
I have watched the first 20 minuets at a comic con.

I have bragged everywhere else, but not here.

I must say: I cried at the opening credits. I just have a weakness for Bob Dylan, and I think they used his song to amazing effect.

Now! I did not see the full film, and so I can't say its ALL awesome...but the FIRST 20 minuets are f***ing amazing.

I loved it, it rocked my socks off, Midnight Thursday ain't coming fast enough.

Aristocrazy
03-02-2009, 09:49 PM
Michael Moore scripts are ridiculous. the descriptions of the first ten pages is longer then your average graphic novel script

This will be great things for my chosen genre hopefully. Expect some people jumping on the graphic novel bandwagon and dropping by AW after ;)

Zoombie
03-03-2009, 02:22 AM
Don't you mean...Allen Moore?

Michael Moore is kinda...different...ish...

Aristocrazy
03-03-2009, 02:28 AM
yaya, thats the guy

maxmordon
03-03-2009, 04:37 AM
It's Alan, not Allen and certainly not Michael...

This guy!:

http://files.neilgaiman.com/Neiland-Alan-705905.jpg

Zoombie
03-03-2009, 12:03 PM
This man is a genius.

Truth.

maxmordon
03-03-2009, 12:11 PM
This man is a genius.

Truth.

I second this with an addendum: Pictured you have enough IQ than an entire high school class... they are part of what Terry Pratchett calls the H.P. Lovecraft Holiday Fun Club

Even though Watchmen, V for Vendetta and Lost Girls impressed me, I didn't had seen how complex was him until I read the 12 issues of Tomorrow Stories that actually left me wondering that if all that was written by him, since it goes from the very experimental stories of not-so-ambiguously sexually Cobweb where one issue was written as a Little Lulu story, other was done taking pictures of old dolls and another was a pastiche of XIX century illustrations sharing its pages with The Greyshirt, a The Spirit-type of Superhero where most stories were told by villains in different forms (one story was told in the form of a building, each page was a building and each floor (panel) was a diferent decade seen how the villain's killer was abused by him through the years and another one was entirely told through the mirrors of a cab) and not far from here in the same magazine there is The First American and U.S. Angel, a hilarious take that to the archetypical all-american superhero with references to pop culture (the First American, for example have had about 6 or 7 sidekick boys who have died for his own incompetence or a phone voting or one of the first issues where he and U.S. Angel fight against Jerry Springler) and who could forget Johnny B. Quick, a boy genius whose misunderstanding of aphorisms makes him make floating cats by glueing them to buttered toasts or trying to stop the light so this could follow traffic regulations? Personally, it's impressive how all this came from the same mind.

Mr. Moore, I salute you!

maestrowork
03-03-2009, 03:27 PM
If you haven't read the graphic novel yet, Ray, I suggest you do.

I actually have the "animation" of the graphic novel on TV.

maxmordon
03-03-2009, 08:40 PM
I actually have the "animation" of the graphic novel on TV.

Is it anything like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbEbs6ByFEg

maestrowork
03-03-2009, 09:28 PM
Is it anything like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbEbs6ByFEg

No. It's excellent -- they turned the ACTUAL graphic novel into a multiplane animation, but every scene was still just a panel in the novel. Pretty brilliant. It's like reading the graphic novel (with voice dialogue and moving pictures).

maxmordon
03-03-2009, 09:32 PM
No. It's actually excellent -- they turned the ACTUAL graphic novel into a multiplane animation, but every scene was still just a panel in the novel. Pretty brilliant, actually. It's like reading the graphic novel (with actually voice dialogue and moving pictures).

Oh sorry, I was just kidding. That acutally sounds quite good.

Zoombie
03-03-2009, 10:36 PM
Mastrowork.

I want it.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!

Please?

katiemac
03-03-2009, 10:37 PM
Mastrowork.

I want it.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!

Please?

I think you can buy the DVD. I saw it recently in an ad--Target, maybe? So it's probably on Amazon.

ETA: Yep, it's at Amazon.

maestrowork
03-03-2009, 11:46 PM
Or iTune, I think.

I noticed I used three "actually" (one incorrectly) and one "actual" in that post. Ugh!

ETA: fixed it. now I feel better, actually.

maxmordon
03-06-2009, 04:13 AM
LOL! Rorschach Vs. Wolverine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n3VSw1XBOo)

Zoombie
03-06-2009, 03:08 PM
Got back.

Loved it.

Amazing.

Go see it.

Decide for yourself.

SPMiller
03-06-2009, 05:31 PM
Also saw it. Mixed feelings. Will be too inaccessible to viewers unfamiliar with the comic books. Only one or two performances I consider good. On the other hand, faithful to a large degree. Perhaps unjustifiably so.

Toothpaste
03-06-2009, 06:11 PM
Seeing it in a few hours. A little worried to be honest. Will let you know!

dragonjax
03-07-2009, 12:54 AM
Just saw it. Although I appreciated what they tried to do with it, I think it would have made a much better mini series. I actually left feeling disappointed. But that's probably because I had exceedingly high expectations.

(I chuckled over how Silk Spectre's stiletto heels morphed into flats during battle scenes. Reminded me of Catwoman's footwear in Batman Returns.)

maestrowork
03-07-2009, 04:35 AM
I've seen the reviews: they either love it or hate it, almost no middle ground.

It's interesting that Alan Moore refused to put his name on this project...