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aspier
04-04-2005, 03:45 PM
Women have a lesbian relationship with the muse - that softness - while men have an illicit relationship with her! Do you agree to this or am I off line miles away and such? I am in love with many of the women on this board (they just don't know this and please don't spread it, ok?) but when come the Muse ... oh man, whoosh gone am I.

Bet all the guys here are the same!

http://users.skynet.be/spier/clipart/beast01.jpg

Rob-rite
04-04-2005, 03:54 PM
Mmm, I bet this revelation sets tongues wagging!

(Sorry, I couldn't resist a joke there. I mean, as a sexual preference, lets face it -- lesbianism takes some lickin').

Nivvie
04-04-2005, 04:05 PM
*Widens eyes*

Oh dear god!
This isn't suitable for me, I'm only twenty nine!!


Although, I think it can't be defined my sex.
Some people write like the muse is their soul mate, others their whore, etc.

It makes me cups of tea and prods me when I try and fall asleep, so basically, more of a child. Or an annoying mother.

Hell, I don't know.

*Backs away from thread*

aspier
04-04-2005, 04:06 PM
Oeee, oh my g-force Rob-rite! Wash mouth! Wash mouth! Quick!

Nivvie
04-04-2005, 04:07 PM
*Lesbian side note*


I have a friend who's gay, and I know it's not generally the way of things, but her and her girlfriend have nasty physical ***** fights when arguments get out of hand.
No, no in a paddling pool full of mud.....

Nivvie
04-04-2005, 04:08 PM
Wow, I've been ***** over the lady dog word!
Man, this is classy place...

Rob-rite
04-04-2005, 04:26 PM
Oeee, oh my g-force Rob-rite! Wash mouth! Wash mouth! Quick!

Sorry! sorry! I know! I know! I've just gargled with disinfectant.

Then again it could be turets...

No, I know what it is...it's this stupid new avatar. Makes me think I can get even more sillier than usual.

Richard
04-04-2005, 04:29 PM
To clarify:

This means it's cool to be in all night on a Saturday, typing away on Microsoft Word?

Phew!

Sarita
04-04-2005, 04:33 PM
No, I know what it is...it's this stupid new avatar. Makes me think I can get even more sillier than usual.
No, Rob it's all that auto-erotic asphyxiation. Not enough oxygen getting to that brain of yours! :ROFL:

aspier
04-04-2005, 04:40 PM
What's getting to your brain, Saritams8?

Sarita
04-04-2005, 04:45 PM
Intoxication. (you know what kind ;) )

Rob-rite
04-04-2005, 04:48 PM
No, Rob it's all that auto-erotic asphyxiation. Not enough oxygen getting to that brain of yours! :ROFL:

That, or I need more fibre (or is that fiber over in the states, I'm not sure...).

mistri
04-04-2005, 04:51 PM
To clarify:

This means it's cool to be in all night on a Saturday, typing away on Microsoft Word?

Phew!

It'd be really cool if that was cool, for if so, I'd be super-cool.

I don't *think* I'm having a lesbian relationship with my muse though. My muse is more of a bully - putting my ideas into my head when I've got too many to deal with already, for example.

JoeEkaitis
04-04-2005, 05:02 PM
Coffee is my muse, which I treat with respect. I don't want to end up in the emergency room with the doctor asking, "How did you get third-degree burns THERE?"

veinglory
04-04-2005, 05:09 PM
Interesting assumptions.


1) the relationship with muse is sexual
2) muse is female

ergo...

My is muse is male, very very male. And gay.

Richard
04-04-2005, 06:07 PM
<obscure>

With friends like that, who needs Mnemes....

</obscure>

maestrowork
04-04-2005, 06:49 PM
I don't have the faintest idea of who my muse is. But I have a feeling that he's male, and no, I don't have illicit relation with him.

KellyS.
04-04-2005, 07:33 PM
I don't know who or what my muse is either. I know it doesn't have any good ideas at the moment either though.

MacAllister
04-04-2005, 07:37 PM
:ROFL: Argo, are you having an illicit relationship with your muse?

I'd be up for a wild lesbian fling with MY muse....but she's so distant and standoffish.

*sigh*

Liam Jackson
04-04-2005, 08:42 PM
I don't have a muse. I have a co-conspirator, and sex with that tequila drinking, whore-chasing bastid is the last thing I have on my mind.

BTW, he likes to think of himself as "Hemingway on steroids." I just wish he could write like H.

Sarita
04-04-2005, 08:43 PM
:ROFL: Too funny Liam!

rhymegirl
04-04-2005, 08:51 PM
I don't even remember the question, but did he say he was in love with the women on this board?

Sarita
04-04-2005, 08:56 PM
Mmmmhmmmm ... Glad someone else caught that!

Richard
04-04-2005, 08:57 PM
I'm just depressed that this probably means the Muse has no interest in me, so I'll have to wing everything with an inate lack of talent. Sigh...

SRHowen
04-04-2005, 09:06 PM
Traditionally muses are female--but I am glad to see that others here have male muses. Mines a nasty sword bearing creature who stands over me with sword held high threatening to chop me up if I do not write. And male.

Sexual? Hmmmm . . . in that the relationship any writer has with their muse is one of intimacy, then maybe. And considering that one’s muse goes everywhere with you, work, the shower, the toilet--pretty darn intimate.

Mark Anderson
04-04-2005, 09:08 PM
If the OP is correct, I think I speak for many men on this board when I say: Can I watch while you write?:partyguy:

Sarita
04-04-2005, 09:12 PM
Mark, do we get to slap you now or later?:box: :ROFL:

Azure Skye
04-04-2005, 10:14 PM
My muse just comes over for tea. No sex is involved.

maestrowork
04-04-2005, 10:27 PM
I've decided my muse is male and gay and goodlooking and hung and I'm gonna have wild passionate illicit weird sex with him.

See you in a few hours.


(there, Mark, I bet you don't want to watch anymore)

Liam Jackson
04-04-2005, 10:31 PM
<<<...so I'll have to wing everything with an inate lack of talent. Sigh...>>>

Why not? It worked for me. ;)

trumancoyote
04-04-2005, 10:59 PM
My muse is big and fat and black, and I love her.

Though sometimes I'm scared of her.

aspier
04-04-2005, 11:05 PM
Interesting assumptions.


1) the relationship with muse is sexual
2) muse is female

ergo...

My is muse is male, very very male. And gay.


Veinglory this is a very sharp comment re the issue! Indeed assumptions and it puts one to thinking! What really IS this relationship? Is it 'love' which is then extra-sexual? Note that I have put in the title (very specifically) the word 'softness' trying to suggest a different quality in the relationship. There's also the pic of a Beauty and the Beast. A suggestion of being in a state of 'wonder'? How does the Muse come to one? What's the depth of the 'possession' she exercises? What is taken place when one begins to swoon, feel happy, creative, has energy, sees the world in a beautiful haze? Where does it comes from? By calling the Muse in the sentence ubove a 'she' I am not really saying 'yes, its female' and ignoring your second point. On the contrary your remark is a pointer towards 'the real feeling quality' that's so typical of a relationship in which Muses are involved. In my experience with the Muses (I have met three very intimitely and the others as figurines and dakini's) is that they mutate at will into what suits them and can take on not only male and female forms. One came to me as a Salamander and I also experienced the trans-mutation from the salamander into first male and then female. Having said this ... I think sexuality plays a role too, however.

If you'd like to check out the names of the Muses, in the following paragraph I name them in their original Greek venackies.


I had to smile to that. Of course I was doing my notes on the cards! And what she didn't know was that I was writing her while I was working on the cards.
'Oh, free cards, free cards from Sister Fattier. A chore for a card and a story from my hand!'
'I too can write good sentences' I wrote on a Men-love-with-their-eyes card.
'Love is castigation and in the end it can drag on till it reaches the domain of the inevitable' I block lettered with minuscule underneath it.
Playing my role and working it out on Doctor Mädle I took more cards from my lady's purse and started serious work on dream analysis and The Story of Caroline. On the first one I wrote, neatly and with spaced majuscules, Neurotic Syndromes. Underneath it I wrote 9 separate items for consideration regarding Dorothy and a possible literary baby. I kept the 9 Muses' names firmly in mind. Kalliope and Kleio and Euterpe and Thaleia and Melpomene and Terpiscore and Erato and Polymnia and Ourania.
'Ourania from Autobahn Kreuz Köln West' I told Dr Mädle.

Richard
04-04-2005, 11:32 PM
Mneme, Melete and Aeode are going to be a little ticked with you ;-)

Fractured_Chaos
04-04-2005, 11:36 PM
My muse is a drama queen, who frequently goes into fits of pique, and leaves for days at a time. I have to constantly bribe him with favors and baubles. And he has damned expensive tastes!

mommie4a
04-04-2005, 11:46 PM
My muse takes me to a precipice at the bottom of which will be me if I make wrong decisions. To keep from making wrong decisions, my muse forces me to write about the conflict between the right and the wrong decisions, thereby relieving (at least temporarily) my urge to make the wrong decision and abide by the right one. (Can you say tortured soul?)

aspier
04-04-2005, 11:53 PM
My muse is a drama queen, who frequently goes into fits of pique, and leaves for days at a time. I have to constantly bribe him with favors and baubles. And he has damned expensive tastes!

Oh that's the Muse allwrite! Quick quick when he's gone write down what he has done to you when he was not gone! Somehow I think this sentence doesn't work, no?

'... when he was not on his gone'

Richard, I have mislaid my Greek Mythology. You are talking about the mamma Muse, no? And the other two? Who are they? Salamanders?

Richard
04-04-2005, 11:53 PM
Man, all you people are deep.

I just write words that amuse me.

Richard
04-04-2005, 11:55 PM
They were the three head muses - the nine you mentioned were the regular ones.

aspier
04-05-2005, 12:07 AM
Tnx! You are telling me something now! Were those the three I met? They scared the heaven away from me for a long time!

Fractured_Chaos
04-05-2005, 12:09 AM
Oh that's the Muse allwrite! Quick quick when he's gone write down what he has done to you when he was not gone! Somehow I think this sentence doesn't work, no?


Aspier, the sentence works fine ;)

As for what my muse does to me when he's actually HERE *coughcoughtorturecough*, I'm currently not at liberty to say. He's looking over my shoulder right now, and is threatening to leave again if I divulge any secrets. :o

aspier
04-05-2005, 12:16 AM
Good! But now you know you know!

Richard
04-05-2005, 12:19 AM
Argo, I respectfully suggest more water with it next time ;-)

aspier
04-05-2005, 01:03 AM
My muse takes me to a precipice at the bottom of which will be me if I make wrong decisions. To keep from making wrong decisions, my muse forces me to write about the conflict between the right and the wrong decisions, thereby relieving (at least temporarily) my urge to make the wrong decision and abide by the right one. (Can you say tortured soul?)

Mommy, That's a strange statement! Connection right/wrong and tortured soul. I agree with this 'temporarily relief' as this is the motor behind all creative processes. (Writing then seen as a kind of addiction.) How do you compare the 'belief' in the Muse with the belief in JHWH? Are you not given here to idolatry? (I asked this in this manner as I have read in some post of yours that you are Jewish). Mind explaining a bit more? And by the way, is there some occidental references to Muses or do you think its only a Greek (and therefor Western cultural) phenomenon?

MacAllister
04-05-2005, 02:58 AM
I'm interested in the connection between creative and sexual energy that Argo mentioned upstream. It seems very apt, although I suspect we're venturing out into a pretty speculative realm.

And Aspier--if anyone was going to meet the three muses from legend, somehow it doesn't surprise me that it was you.

aspier
04-05-2005, 11:56 AM
Mneme, Melete and Aeode are going to be a little ticked with you ;-)


Macallis smile! I too believe there is a connection. Yet what Veinglory has remarked really put me to thinking. Why has practically everyone posted here made a link in their posts to the 'sexual'. Its as if the word 'Muses' is immediately associated with 'sex' when used. Maybe its because of the provocativeness of the title I had given to the thread. And maybe that pic of Royo (Beauty and Beast) played a role too. Sexistic? Not realy because the theme is running in literature for a long time, etc. Basically I meant with it that women and men have different relationships with the Muse (that's if the Muse exists ... its in the unconscious collective anyway). I suspect also that there is a 'soft feminine' quality to the Muse.

Richard, I'd been brooding on your remarks re the 3 and other. I mean no offence with whatever I post. The names you have given me ... I don't think you are right. 'Mneme, Melete and Aeode' - Mneme is the Mother of the nine. Melete and Aeode? I find no trace of them! Plus Greek Mythology works always on 'family' lines ... they can't be Aunts, etc. Are they? The number 3 however - and then 3 women - is valid though. This I have used in the past. These 3 women appear under various names in Continental (Europe Main) mythology through the ages. I've found none in Celtic (Oeee Brigantia?) literature. (I am saying really with this last sentence that the English Language is 'barbaric' in the eyes of greek mythology as they do not have counterparts - oh oh water! Put much water to the post! Smile!). Can you explain how the Muse family works?

Is the Muse feminine! I think yes!

Here are some Mythology on-line links if anybody is interested: Anybody got more links? Please share it.

http://www.greekmythology.com/index.html

http://www.oup.com/us/companion.websites/0195153448/?view=usa

http://etext.virginia.edu/cgi-local/DHI/ot2www-dhi?specfile=/texts/english/dhi/dhi.o2w

Richard
04-05-2005, 02:05 PM
The muses were the daughters of Zeus and Mnemosyne. Aoede, Melete and Mneme were the muses of song, meditation and memory respectively.

aspier
04-05-2005, 02:24 PM
No trace of an affair with Aoede or Melete

Zeus Lovers
As the sky god Zeus (http://www.greekmythology.com/Olympians/Zeus/zeus.html) had easy access to the women of the world and took full advantage of it. Also, his power as a supreme god made him difficult to resist. Prior to his marriage to Hera (http://www.greekmythology.com/Olympians/Hera/hera.html) he was married first to Metis (http://www.greekmythology.com/Titans/Metis/metis.html), then Themis (http://www.greekmythology.com/Titans/Themis/themis.html). He was interested in Demeter (http://www.greekmythology.com/Other_Gods/Demeter/demeter.html) but she resisted him. His third wife was Mnemosyne (http://www.greekmythology.com/Titans/Mnemosyne_/mnemosyne_.html). He was involved with Leto (http://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/The_Myths/Zeus_s_Lovers/Leto/leto.html) shortly before his marriage to Hera. The list of lovers after his final marriage, to Hera, is considerable:


Europa (http://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/The_Myths/Zeus_s_Lovers/Europa_/europa_.html)
Io (http://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/The_Myths/Zeus_s_Lovers/Io_/io_.html)
Semele (http://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/The_Myths/Zeus_s_Lovers/Semele_/semele_.html)
Ganymede (http://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/The_Myths/Zeus_s_Lovers/Ganymede_/ganymede_.html)
Callisto (http://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/The_Myths/Zeus_s_Lovers/Callisto_/callisto_.html)
Leto (http://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/The_Myths/Zeus_s_Lovers/Leto/leto.html)
http://www.greekmythology.com/clearpixel.gif
The Muses


They are the daughters of Zeus (http://www.greekmythology.com/Olympians/Zeus/zeus.html) and Mnemosyne (http://www.greekmythology.com/Titans/Mnemosyne_/mnemosyne_.html). They are known for the music of their song, which brings joy to any who hear it. There are nine Muses, each with her own specialty: Clio (History), Urania (Astronmy), Melpomene (Tragedy), Thalia (Comedy), Terpsichore (Dance), Calliope (Epic Poetry), Erato (Love Poetry), Polyhymnia (Songs to the Gods), Euterpe (Lyric Poetry).



front door of site = http://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/The_Myths/Zeus_s_Lovers/zeus_s_lovers.html

veinglory
04-05-2005, 02:47 PM
The muses were treated as feminine because the major artists were male (or Sappho!). I think the male muses were there in the background getting ignored along with the majority of the female artists.

SRHowen
04-05-2005, 02:52 PM
The muses were treated as feminine because the major artists were male (or Sappho!). I think the male muses were there in the background getting ignored along with the majority of the female artists.

Yup, my thoughts as well.

MacAllister
04-05-2005, 02:57 PM
I think our descriptions and gender-choice for personifications of our muse is particularly telling in terms of transference--whether our muse presents as an erotic relationship, authoritarian, supportive and comforting...

Hmmm--this whole discussion speaks volumes about the assorted psychoses of writers with muses.

Gehanna
04-05-2005, 05:03 PM
I have a different perspective.

Each of us have within our psyche male and female aspects. The Muses of Greek Mythology, while depicted as being female, are representations of the divisions of human creativity.

This creativity surfaces from the feminine aspect within each of us. Once an individual has discovered their creative potential, they have found within themselves their personal muse.

The relationship with the muse involves all things because the muse is of the self. This aspect of our psyche, this Muse, is subject to our own desires, experiences, perceptions and expectations. To have a relationship with your muse is to have a relationship with the self.

There is something very important to remember about your muse and that is never to underestimate her. While your muse is submissive and subject to all things, she is also very powerful. When called on, your Muse can do amazing things. She has the potential to create works which serve to nourish appreciation for life itself. It is by the power of our muse, that we as human beings are unique within the universe.

Be good to your muse, to yourself, and she will be good to you.

Sincerely,
Gehanna

ps - This makes my 50th post. I can get my sun avatar now! 8-)

odoura
04-05-2005, 09:14 PM
1. woman < lesbian relationship > with muse. YES there is that relationship you mentioned and its based on softness. I think women have a kind of lesbian relationship with themselves or we could say a soft relationship. This is put over to her concept of the Muse. The question however is, how women become Muses to themselves ... what is happening inside her when she awakens as a Muse. She cannot do it alone. She needs the concept 'man'. Its a complicated process. Same reasoning is valid for men. I am talking of the individual 'self muse' musing and feeling.

2. man < illicit relationship >with her. Here too the same reasoning is valid for women. Women also have that 'illicit' feeling men have. The wonder here is the interaction between men and women. It too is a soft 'lesbian' and 'illicitness' that defines the relantionship . Most important is what makes them interact and how the man meets his own muse within himself.

odoura

Gehanna
04-05-2005, 10:02 PM
One way that the search for the muse within is triggered is through the reflective interactions that occur between men and women. This is not to say that a man's latent half is always his feminine side nor is it to say that masculinity is always latent in a woman. The latent side of an individual depends more on character than gender.

As for me, I am gay and yet I am not gay. I am gay because I have more masculine character than feminine but my desire is for man not woman. Why is this so? It is because men serve to reflect certain aspects which cause me to connect with my latent feminine side and become more complete. The reason I am not gay is because I am a woman.

Finally, I am a lesbian of myself in that my physical body seeks to unite with my latent feminine character in order to become more complete as a person.

Gehanna

aspier
04-06-2005, 01:01 PM
Odoura, Gehanna, mmm deep! Quite food for thought. The inside gay and lesbian! Being your own Muse on the inside. (On the sly? Illicit? 'Cheating' on oneself when you run after the Muse ... no no! Doesn't work! Or does it?)

'Boys will be girls and girls will be boys' - song of the Kinks in the 60ties.

Someone also made this remark: 'In latin languagues the noun 'musa' is feminin and there isn't any male noun for it!' Interesting.

[LA musA]

I wonder how that is with other modern languages? Anyone knows? Do you thing

veinglory
04-06-2005, 02:09 PM
I have a different perspective.

This creativity surfaces from the feminine aspect within each of us.




An interesting perspective but not universal. As a female writer I experience creativity as a male energy -- I write mainly gay male erotica, but the feeling also extends to my sci fi and non-fiction science writing. I feel this presence as a masculine muse.

odoura
04-06-2005, 04:27 PM
Spier says 'food for thought' mmm but say what happens to you when your Muses feed you?

maestrowork
04-06-2005, 05:49 PM
To be good writers (or any creative people, actually), we probably should get in touch with every side of ourselves: male, female, masculine, feminine, playful, happy, spiteful, murderous, perverted, twisted, kind, motherly, fatherly, sexual, asexual, peaceful, child-like...

I am proud to say I can hang with the guys and at the same time I'm not afraid of my feminine side. I think it makes me more interesting.

As for my muse, I still don't know. I know I have one, but he or she has been elusive. Sometimes I think my muse is a man, sometimes a woman. And I kind of like that.

Gehanna
04-06-2005, 07:11 PM
In order to more fully understand what I mean about the the masculine and feminine aspects of the whole, you must separate the energy type from the gender and see it asexually.

My use of the terms feminine and masculine in relation to creative energy have little to do with literal associations. You must look deeper into the source of creativity to understand what I mean when I say that the muse is feminine.

If you feel that your muse is male, then your muse shall indeed be male.

Sincerely,
Gehanna

Julian Black
04-06-2005, 08:14 PM
An interesting perspective but not universal. As a female writer I experience creativity as a male energy -- I write mainly gay male erotica, but the feeling also extends to my sci fi and non-fiction science writing. I feel this presence as a masculine muse.Same here.

I actually talk out loud, or carry on lengthy internal dialogues with my muse when I'm trying to work through a creative problem, and I have a clear mental image of him when I do this. I do the same thing with specific characters when I'm writing. In other words, I'm 38 years old and still have invisible friends...

aspier
04-07-2005, 10:06 PM
Same here.

I actually talk out loud, or carry on lengthy internal dialogues with my muse when I'm trying to work through a creative problem, and I have a clear mental image of him when I do this. I do the same thing with specific characters when I'm writing. In other words, I'm 38 years old and still have invisible friends...


Apart from your biography = Placental mammal, bipedal, nocturnal and this oh so young age of yours (a woman at her hight of mammalism) I too have this dialogues going on when I escape into stories. Sometimes I sit infront of my compt laughing my ar se off at the dialogue that unfolds on the screen. There's always that dumb character that's so lost and keep on persistently interrupting at the wrong turn, etc. But re Muse thing ... I don't think these are Muses. Maybe the Muse makes one see the characters. If you want to browse what I'm working on write now, a shrink story, here's the on-line draft http://users.skynet.be/spier/download.htm = download page check on the left called 'caroline' It should open on your compt in word. Open 'master file'.

aspier
04-08-2005, 09:20 AM
Anyone wants to see my 'wee-ing muse' story?

Here = http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=150628#post150628

Mr Underhill
04-08-2005, 11:54 PM
Owner: Ah, hungry!

Customer: In a nutshell. And I thought to myself, "a little fermented curd will do the trick," so, I curtailed my Walpoling activites, sallied forth, and infiltrated your place of purveyance to negotiate the vending of some cheesy comestibles!

Owner: Come again?

Customer: I want to buy some cheese.

Owner: Oh, I thought you were complaining about the bazouki player!

Customer: Oh, heaven forbid: I am one who delights in all manifestations of the Terpsichorean muse!

Owner: Sorry?

Customer: 'Ooo, Ah lahk a nice tuune, 'yer forced too!

Owner: So he can go on playing, can he?

Customer: Most certainly! Now then, some cheese please, my good man.


– Monty Python, The Cheese Sketch (http://www.minderella.com/words/cheeseshop.htm)

aspier
04-09-2005, 09:16 PM
Owner, customar and Terpischore! Oh! Write, I get what you mean.

aspier
04-14-2005, 03:14 PM
http://www.pantheon.org/areas/gallery/mythology/europe/greek/muses.gif