The threat of theft...

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone complaining that someone stole their work from AW.

For one thing, two different people treat an idea totally differently. My idea in your hands is your story. In my hands it's my story, and rarely would anyone post so much information that more than the premise would be the same.

If an excerpt is plagiarized, well, they have to match your style for the rest of the story, don't they? And most people willing to stoop so low for a few thousand (or hundred) easy words don't have the skill or discipline to do that.

It's why we don't hear of more instances of plagiarism in published work (although we do).

The only way to be 100% safe is to keep it 100% to yourself. Most members here feel safe enough to post on SYW, but if I told you it would be 100% no-matter-what safe here, I'd be lying, because I don't know that.

The Mad Geek said:

I just wanted to know: Do people often 'steal' other writers' ideas on this site? I have many ideas I'd like to get feedback on and I want to post them in SYW so as to recieve critique on my craft and ideas but, naturally, I'm scared some of my favorite ideas might get... 'stolen'. Anything you'd like to share with me on the matter? Thanks.

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You realize this is an impossible question to answer, right? The SYW forums are password protected, so only AW members can access the work. As for ideas getting 'stolen'...well, you can't really copyright an idea can you? Jane hit the nail on the head with her post.

I understand your concern. I was involved with another writing forum at one time where a member lifted (without changing a word) an entire story of one of my crit group members and submitted it to a contest.

And won.

And got busted. After all of that, the forum owners refused to ban the plagiarist from the site.

The resulting fiasco blew up into a forum-shattering mess and divided a significant portion of the older, published writers from the site--including me.

There are no guarantees in cyberspace. If you're that concerned about theft, then find some other avenue for getting critiques--like finding beta readers or crit partners--but you can't expect there to be any way for the mods to protect your 'ideas' from being pilfered.

*shrug* Just sayin'...

Don't worry about this.

Stealing other people's ideas is rude, and people here don't tend to be rude, so it doesn't happen with any kind of frequency.

That said, if you have a really good idea, someone might really want to use it. They will probably ask your permission. If they don't, rest assured, they will not tell the same story you want to tell.

In the end, even if your idea is "stolen", you still get to tell your story and nobody can take that away from you. It's not like a publisher would turn down your manuscript because he's seen the same idea before; half the bestselling high fantasy out there is LOTR all over again.

Oh, and another thing: good writers don't suffer from a lack of ideas. Quite the opposite. I have a dozen or more things I want to write, and most of them I never will - simply because I could never find the time to write them all.

The Mad Geek said:

I just wanted to know: Do people often 'steal' other writers' ideas on this site? I have many ideas I'd like to get feedback on and I want to post them in SYW so as to recieve critique on my craft and ideas but, naturally, I'm scared some of my favorite ideas might get... 'stolen'. Anything you'd like to share with me on the matter? Thanks.

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There are pretty much no new stories under the sun. The Bible covered most of them and whatever the Biblical writers missed, Shakespeare got.

That's not to say you aren't at some risk. But then, you're at the same risk if you're telling your friend about your book while standing in line at the Post Office. Someone might hear your idea and "steal" it.

As others have said, it won't be your story anyway. Besides -- by the process of you asking for help and suggestions on your story, in that sense, you'd be "stealing" someone else's creative ideas to incorporate into your own. But, you're not. Because, as DJ said, you won't write the same story she'll write or the same story I'll write, and so on.

JeanneTGC said:

There are pretty much no new stories under the sun. The Bible covered most of them and whatever the Biblical writers missed, Shakespeare got.

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I'd like to raise a hand here and say that really, you've only covered Europe with that The traditional stories of Africa and the Americas and the non-Indo-European stories of Asia do actually cover some other ground, with somewhat different ideas of structure, IMO.

But that's a nitpick really.

I'm not gonna steal anyone's ideas here because I'm too busy stealing from Indian epics. I really doubt anyone who can write well enough for it to matter would bother stealing from anyone, Geek, and really anyone who wants to steal is more likely to steal from a bestseller than another aspiring writer.

But there's always that chance. On the other hand, there's also the chance you'll get hit by a meteor tonight. I would lose about as much sleep on both chances

If you're posting in SYW, you're only sharing, what? a thousand words? 1% of your book, or less.

So I might steal those few words ( not that I would)-- I'd then have to write the rest of a novel without knowing anything about your plot, and I'd write in my own style, so it would be completely different. And I'd still have to write it.

I'm not saying someone might not see say your query and go 'ooh interesting premise', but even if they use it, no doubt they'll twist it around and make it their own. And when you're published -- if it's any good you can bet your boots some writer somewhere will say 'I like that part of the plot, I'll use that' or 'My character could do with a flaw like that!'

So chill

The Mad Geek:
I have many ideas I'd like to get feedback on and I want to post them in SYW so as to recieve critique on my craft and ideas but, naturally, I'm scared some of my favorite ideas might get... 'stolen'.

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You don't own ideas; you own the way you express them. It's perfectly possible for two writers to start off from the same idea (e.g. a boy forced to live under the stairs by his wicked aunt and uncle) but one goes on to turn that boy into a wizard who defeats a big bad guy and saves the day, and the other will turn him into a serial killer who eats his aunt and uncle.

Personally, if you're talking about putting up ideas for critique (e.g. "I want to write a short story about a boy who finds a magic lamp etc etc etc), then I don't see the point. The only way to work through an idea is to write the first draft and then talk through with the critiquer what you want to achieve with the piece.

As others have said, you could put up bits of things you're working on if you're concerned about perfecting your craft but don't want people to get too much information on what you're working on.

MM

Even if you put your entire novel up on SYW and I stole it, I would have to

1. write a query letter and synopsis and then go through the hassle of submitting it
2. understand the characters and the world well enough to come up with sequels, if an agent or editor requested them
3. sign my name to a lie, since the contract specifies that the work is not plagiarized
4. brace for the inevitable revelation of the truth, possibly followed by a lawsuit, certainly followed by my good name being lost forever.

It's far easier to write my own stories.

Yeah, it's scary letting your darlings out into the world, but how else are they supposed to grow?

Why don't you find an interesting prompt, write a nice little 1000 word story or a scene, and then post it? It'll let you test the waters without risk to the ideas you hold close to your heart. I can't even begin to tell you the benefits of having your work critiqued in SYW, and even more so, the benefits from critiquing others' work.

Here's a writing prompt, if you choose to accept this mission:

Write a story that contains the following words: Moonshine, puppet, britches, chalk, sliver

Nicole

Honestly, ideas are a dime a dozen. Actually turning those ideas into something salient is the hard part.

CDarklock said:

Oh, and another thing: good writers don't suffer from a lack of ideas.

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Ha! This totally made me laugh as I had the exact same thought. "What would I want with your idea? I have a big enough problem trying to find time to turn all my 'ideas' into workable stories."

Take a look at some of the older contests. 1 idea, tens of different stories. Even when the idea includes a direction for the story, everyone still adds their own voice, style, characters.... it's almost impossible to write the same as someone else.

I used to worry about someone taking my idea and making a better job of writing it. The only way you can be sure they won't is if you never submit it anywhere but, after all the effort of finishing the thing, there's no way that's going to happen.
If you read enough of the genre you write, chances are you'll come across 'your' idea eventually.
I hate it when that happens.

Ideas drop from the trees, like the buds of red maples. They lie all over the street and stick themselves to shoes and get dragged into houses, where they stick to the rugs and dull the floorboards with pollen. Ideas can be a pain in the butt.

Red maple trees, on the other hand, are beautiful and provide great shade in midsummer and age their leaves to gold and will live way longer than you will. While all the red maple buds look pretty much alike, each tree has a unique spread and flare of branches.

So, there you go. Nobody needs your red maple buds. We can find plenty on the soles of our own shoes, and we have our own trees to grow.

OK, there are a lot of good points here. I agree with most of them, particularly that the poachable idea is extremely rare and that people on AW are unlikely to steal ideas anyway.

That said, you should not feel like you need to post any work here or anywhere else. Lots of AW members post on SYW. Lots don't. And that decision is based on many different reasons.

Mad Geek, you just got here. And we're glad you came. But take some time to hang out on the boards. There's a lot of good info and advice to be gleaned without posting your work. Once you get a feel for the community here, then you can decide whether you think that getting some critiques might help your writing. Only you can decide if you want to share in this forum. (I would say that sharing your work is extremely important to growing as a writer -- but you may prefer to share with teachers, friends, fellow writers that you know.)

It took me a couple of months before I was willing to put anything up on SYW. I haven't shared much, but I have gotten some helpful critiques on pieces I was having trouble with. There are other pieces I won't put up -- and yes, a couple of those are because I think I have an interesting twist on a familiar idea.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

Ideas are a dime a dozen.

Sometimes brainstorming with other people actually yields even better ideas.

Ideas can't be copyrighted.

Ideas are hardly original. If you have thought about it, chances are others have thought about it. The world is a large place.

It's not the idea that sells a book. It's the execution. Ideas are easy to come by, but seeing them through from beginning to end is the hard part.

Worrying about people stealing your work is a good sign of "n00bness."

You can't do a damn thing if people want to steal from you. You can sue them, but that's about it.

Don't worry so much. Just write.

It's really nothing to worry about. Really.

Don't lose sleep over it.

Even if anyone stole your idea, chances are they expressed it differently--because it's next to impossible they wrote it *just* like you would have. Though that may anger you, it shouldn't be a worry to a real writer. Everyone steals ideas to an extent. Take Shakespeare. Half of his plays were based on previously written stories. Shakespeare is the king of idea theft. Does anyone really care? No. I even have a short story I wrote based on the premise of Othello, but am I worried I "stole" Shakespeare's or his predecessors ideas? No. Because it may be the same idea at the heart, but the expression is so completely different, they're still very, very different stories.

And it probably won't happen to you. Chances are you're the one who's the thief, even if you don't know it. Chances are your ideas are similar to ones that are already out there--consciously, subconsciously, or even just coincidentally. But your vision is probably completely different. If anyone ends up stealing your idea, the situation will probably be exactly the same, which really isn't something you should worry about.

If you want a good movie/short story to read on this, watch Secret Window based on the Stephen King short story, or read the actual story. I recommend the movie--even though it's King--simply because it has Johnny Depp. Part of the premise is that an unknown hick writer shows up at Johnny's house one day and accuses him of stealing one of his stories, and slowly begins to destroy Johnny's life until he can either prove he didn't steal it, or gives the other guy credit for it. In the end, we realize all of this is ***SPOILERS*** in his head, and no theft ever happened at all.

But seriously, don't worry. You automatically have a copyright on any original material you've written (or painted or composed, etc.), no matter what. That's just your right as an artist, and chances are you'll never have to worry any more about it.

The only real worry I can think of is certain contests. Always read contest rules completely. Some of them have fine print that says--by submitting it to them--they get all the rights to your story even if you don't win. They probably will never steal it or ever worry about it, but there's a small chance that if you submit it elsewhere and sell it, they may come after you looking for money. That's probably pretty rare, too, but the only thing I can actually think of to look out for, as far as "theft" goes. As maestro said, I too would stay away from these.

Beyond that, just write.

kuwisdelu said:

The only real worry I can think of is certain contests. Always read contest rules completely. Some of them have fine print that says--by submitting it to them--they get all the rights to your story even if you don't win.

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Ugh, I'd stay as far away from those as possible. The only way I'd give you all rights is if you pay me for it.

Sharing work and avoiding Plagiarism

I have a paranoid streak, perhaps. Or maybe I think too highly of my work. Or maybe I'm correct in my fear. Can you alleviate my fear?

How, if I were to share pieces of the novel, do I protect myself from having my work stolen? I really do want to share some of my work, but I have a great fear of being plagiarized.

Any thoughts?

If you posted something and then someone stole it, it seems that you would have a record here of that first posting. That's a pretty clear digital paper trail, so I doubt anyone would steal whatever you chose to post.

That being stated, I think some writers fear someone will steal their "idea" when really, ideas are a dime a dozen. Writing the actual novel is what takes talent. And if someone doesn't have the talent to come up with an idea, I doubt they have even a modicum of what it takes to write it.

See this thread :

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100542