Non-fatal stabbings....

I believe the thigh or the buttocks are two good places.

LOL! I can imagine, but usually in close quarters fighting where neither opponent can escape it rapidly winds up like a wrestling match - you wind up stabbing blindly and wherever you can hit (especially if one guy is unarmed and can't escape- he'll try to get in close and try to immobilize the arm holding the weapon)

Stab wounds to the thigh are pretty frequent...

Ah so.....

"I see", said the blind man...

Original post deleted. I'll try again after some sleep.

Stupid computer ate my post. Let's try this again, shall we...

If the killer sneaks up from behind and a struggle occurs, the most likely place a stab will occur is the upper torso. We can work with this. Most stabbings allot for a two or three hour window. He could stab the shoulder blade, neck or even ribs. Just as long as he missed the major arteries, it should stay realistic. Weakness will ensue with bloodloss, though. I would avoid the neck, as there are many major arteries in the neck/collarbone. But, it could still work. Your best bet would probably be the shoulder blade, just above the lung cavity.

Hope this helps.

Spooky, avid watcher of Trauma ER

Also the abdomen will work. Person will bleed slowly but if they live will most likely get sepsis from the leakage from the colon. Thigh wouldn't be to good, person could still get away and not bleed to death. Under the arm pit, straight into the lung would work. Person wouldn't be able to breath let alone get away.

As this is somewhat my area of expertise, I'll weigh in. Lower abdomen is probably the most likely spot for a slow internal bleed out. (2-8 hours) If the blade misses the vitals and hits the bowels instead, the victim has a good chance of surviving the stab wound only to die of infection, later. (as Kevin pointed out.) Stab wounds to a lung can take a while, but if the wound is deep, the lung can collapse, sometimes against the heart. A shot under the armpoint only has to penetrate (on average) 5 cmm before it hits the outer wall of the lungs. (Air embolisms become a very possibility with this type of wound, in which case death is quick.)

I've been stuck through a shoulder blade. Not much of a chance for death unless the blade is: A. longer than your average 4 1/2" folder, or the attacker is strong enough to bury the blade up to the handle, B. blood pressure bleeds you out, (blood pressure rises like a ***** when you're stuck, even when you're prone) C. The wound channel is excpetionally wide.

For a really slow bleed, the wound channel has to bypass the liver, spleen, kidney, aorta, vena cava, iliac, and mesenteric vessels. That's not as tough as it sounds, provided the entry point is at least a couple of inches below the navel and angled down. Again, your mileage may vary, but you can hang on anywhere from 2-8 hours with a deep, lower ab wound. Longer if the wound misses all vitals. Still have to consider the high possibility of embolisms. Gut wounds are nasty business.

One other note regarding stab wounds to the lower extremities. As someone pointed out, knife attacks frequently turn into wreslting matches, unless the weilder is practiced and proficeint. Most wounds to the legs or lower ab occur when the victim falls to the ground and kicks out at the attacker, or curls into a fetal position for cover. In these cases, the wounds are generally slices and not stabs.

A serial killer who purposely sticks a victim below the navel is either betting that help is a longggg way off and he wants the victim to suffer, or he's begging to be identified by his victim in a line-up at a later date.

Oh, and tell Mr. Serial Killer to stay away from the neck if he wants a slow death. There's very few spots where he can inflict damage that will cause death 2-3 hours later, and a great many spots where he'll kill in seconds or minutes. The neck is first choice for a knifer and a close second for a sticker (ice pick, stiletto, etc.)

Quick kills are much simpler to plot.

I've seen a few thin steak knife blades broken off in chests and shoulder blades. Never seen a heavier blade broken off in the shoulder blade. Either could cause the slow bleeding youre shooting for, but the chest wound is far more likely. I also saw an ice-pick broken off in a quadriceps. Fleshy portion of the outer thigh and nowhere near the femur. We never did figure that one out. Angle and force can cause some strange things.

Depending on the knife, it might not break. The clavicle isn't a very thick bone and just remember that hunters use knifes all the time on animals. If you do an under the armpit stick then make sure it is on the right side, opposite side of the heart. Don't stick the blade in all the way. If you go through the clavicle you have to be carefull. Bone fragments can peirce the heart and kill you quick, again, use right side for this. Abdomen stabs can give the victim time to get away, if they are smart enough and have a strong will that is.

If you want the victim to not struggle then I say go through the back. Peirce the spinal cord and paralyze them. If you miss the kidneys, arteries and veins, which can be done, then they will not be able to move and they will bleed out. Hit about mid-back, you will miss the lungs, heart, and kidneys but will most likely hit the stomach and intestines which will make for a slow death.

After I posted the lung scenario I relaized that that wouldn't be possible, as Liam already explained. You can get an embolism, collapsed lung, or if that didn't happen you could throw thrombosis and have a heart attack or a stroke, depending on which way the clot went.

Double post. Deleted

This thread is starting to resemble a Force Recon manual. And we haven't even touched on machetes, Spook's weapon of choice.

Sorry to be pitching in late, but this is right up my alley. I agree with Liam. Lower ab is a good choice. Though depending on a variety of factors, you could theoretically stick someone just about anywhere and get the results, HOWEVER, they won't always be the same. For instance, my old EMT textbook shows an X Ray of a guy with a blade through his neck (and still alive). The blade missed his juglar by inches. Of course, that is not normal for that to happen. Oh the wonderful world of puncture wounds! I've been stabbed once with a small blade knife in the thigh, but thankfully it didn't hit my femoral artery. I do have a nice scar though. It hurt like hell, but I was more mad than I was in pain I think. I mean, who in their right mind would want to stab a fireman who was only there to help....well, at least one person would. And I was more upset at the police officer who put the guy in the cell without searching him for weapons. (procedures exist for a reason)

Anyway, if you want to see some photos of various puncture wounds, let me know and I can scan some in from my various EMS publications. Though I wouldn't advise looking at them right before lunch (or right after)!



Brady H.
(sorry about the banana...it is an illness I can't cure)

Can we talk about gunshot wounds next?


Brady H.

Gunshot wounds?

Greetings, Brady! I was just thinking this morning that you should check in on this issue.

As for gunshot wounds, those jokers hurt like a *****! But we can discuss and compare notes if you like. Meanwhile, glad to see you in the Horror forum.

BTW, I'll share a quick story with you about wounds to the neck and gunshots. One night, I'm working a drug deal in a really sleezy neighborhood. A few minutes into the deal, I hear sirens coming my way. The thug I'm working runs, so I ease down the road to see what's kicking. At the next intersection, there's a nightclub and I see three crusiers come sliding into the parking lot. The uniforms come out with shotguns and work their way inside. I kinda tag along at a distance.

Seems the club operator had just shot another thug with a .45 loaded with ball ammo. Said thug is hit just above the left eyebrow and the round takes him off his feet. But he isn't finished. He gets up, staggers around, then goes after the operator. (Apparently, the operator never heard of "shoot until the threat is neutralized.)

The bad guy is a big ole' go-rilla, and now he's really pissed. he comes across the bar and the operator freaks and drops his gun. He thinks he's fighting a ghost or zombie or something. Several people pile on go-rilla and after a brief struggle, it's all over and go-rilla is deader than a $2.00 car battery.

Official cause of death? A single puncture wound to the Pneumogastric nerve (Vegas nerve), causing central nervous system shut-down, and cardiac arrest. (The .45 ball was lodged just inside the skull.)

The human body is a bizarre piece of machinery.

It is indeed. When I got hurt, we were working a warehouse fire. The building was three stories tall. I was on the ladder company at the time. We were on the roof getting ready to open it up, but the roof started to get very very spongy. Uncomfortably so. I made the decision to back off. Three guys made it to the ladder safely. I was about five feet from the edge of the roof and safety when the thing caved in. I had just enough to time make it two steps and jump for the ladder.....I missed. So down I fell about 36 feet and landed on my back (I was wearing a pack at the time). I still have the pack as a souvenire of sorts. I landed so hard I bent the composite shell. Anyway, I couldnt feel anything from my chest down. They naturally thought I was paralyzed. So I got flown to the trauma center and got the royal treatment. (thus ensuring my undying devotion to ER Nurses and Doctors) The amazing thing is that I was not paralyzed. Apparently the force caused the area around my spine to swell and compress my nerves, but once they got that under control, my feeling slowly but surely returned. I was in the hospital for a couple of months and on light duty for a while after that, but I was able to return to full duty eventually. Even the doctors were baffled. All I can say is that someone was watching out for me that day. I've had other minor injuries since then, but nothing near as serious. My back still hurts from time to time, but not so bad that I cannot function. Yep, the human body is truly amazing.

That said, I am careful now. I have used eight of my nine lives. I may not be so lucky next time.
Brady H.

This thread not only is amazingly interesting, it's more interesting than I could imagine. I've got a couple of questions concerning this, too, but I never thought to ask on the boards. I'll have to go back and read this thread more carefully, then develop my questions. Don't go away! I'll need your brains later.

Have you accounted for the inhibition of haemorrhaging from leaving the blade in situ? If not, there might be a few more arteries open to you. In a manner of speaking.