I thought that would get your attention...
I read this great interview article involving Nat Sobel, about the state of publishing, editors and agents in today's industry.
Below is cribbed from:http://pw.org/content/agents_amp_edi...gent_nat_sobel
People in the business talk about how eight out of ten readers, or whatever the number actually is, are women. I think it's very difficult for young male writers to get published, especially today. I wonder what you think about that and how you've dealt with that in your career.
I certainly think it's very difficult for male writers who are not writing thrillers. They have a much tougher road. We've read a number of pretty good novels by male writers that we know just won't go. Male coming-of-age novels are impossible to sell. We've already talked about how it's getting more and more difficult to sell fiction. Let me give you a better picture of it by looking back on last year. Five of us in the agency read submissions—everyone downstairs and Judith and myself. Five of us. We have an editorial meeting on Thursdays. I never talk to Judith about what I've read except at this meeting so it's all fresh for all of us. We generally read partial manuscripts, or complete manuscripts. Everyone averages about two of those per week. So, in an average year, that's more than five hundred manuscripts. Last year, from those five hundred books, we took on three new writers. And we were only able to sell one of them. Remember that much of what we get is from writers I've written to after reading their stories in the literary journals—we get very little over the transom. So look at those odds.
They're very tough.
Damn right. We've spent a lot of time editing through second and third drafts and finally abandoning books because we don't think we can get the writer up to the level we want. We have to give up on them. Occasionally those books will get published too. But the odds are really difficult, and for the male writers it's even harder.
Is there anything they can do to make their odds better?
I'm always looking for the unusual. I think it may require writing something of a historical nature, with a historical setting. They have to be able to get an idea of what's on the best-seller list today and see that, outside the thriller genre, there aren't too many male fiction writers who are succeeding. And I don't think that's going to change for a while.
But isn't that troubling?
Sure it's troubling. I think it's troubling for all literary fiction writers today. But particularly for the male writers, who are only gradually becoming aware of how limiting that audience is. But I think you can find good male writers who can write from the woman's point of view, too. I remember a first novel I sold years ago. The writer himself was in his early thirties, but the novel was a first-person novel from the point of view of a sixty-two-year-old woman. It was entirely in first person, and it was a terrific story. It began his career. So if a male writer can write from the female point of view, or has a story that will interest a woman's audience, I think he has a better chance than somebody who's writing the kind of Hemingway-esque stuff we read in school.
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My Comments to another poster about this article:
tri, it can't be all genre fic can it?
i'm thinking suspese, thrillers, sci fi / fantasy,
mystery, horror etc...there's great male authors
in all those fields.
some interesting thoughts from sobel in
this article. what i am sad about is the fact
that debut authors are such a hard sell,
esp debut fiction authors.
Well, I dunno. I felt a disturbance in the force when he said that male writers don't stand much of a chance unless they're selling thrillers. That's kind of a wide blanket statement, and I wouldn't necessarily agree with it. I would only disagree about fantasy--lot's of good male writers there. You're correct about males doing particulary well in SF and Horror, although the horror market is pretty much sewn up by the "name" authors like King, Koontz, Barker, Bradner, Matheson and Campbell and others(sp?). The horror audience is not large enough to sustain a new flux of male horror writers. I've seen (I think) one horror success story at AW as far as a major debut sale--Liam Jackson's books. There's probably more. My agent told me that SF is such a small market that it was best I switch genres. This was after a devastating round of no-takers in several rounds of SF submissions.
Maybe what Sobel meant was that the smaller male audience will read techno and espionage thrillers, so those are the ones that should be written by men? I've heard that 65% of all books bought are by women, thus they are the dominent audience. I agree with that figure. But...Sobel says (actually the interviewer says) that eight out of ten books are read by women. If that's the case, and it's changed that drastically in the last few years, then male authors are in real deep shite.
I do have a current thriller now repped--male protag--but the big houses are saying that it's too hard to push that right now. My next up is a paranormal romance with a female protag, and I think that I just might stay right there for a while. I've seriously considered changing my name from Chris to Christine in the sub line. Hah! There is really no other place for me to go. Keep in mind, this is my experience
Yes, the hard sell on debut authors in the article was discouraging overall.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, guys...what do you think of this trend? I've seen it firsthand, and it's clearly a marketing decision because the numbers don't lie--the female audience is supporting more purchases and readership, so naturally the bean counters will lean in that direction. That's a given.
But, please. This is not a thread to flame genders, or declare that this is another women empowering women kind of thing. It's not. Male writers just might have to adapt in order to jump some hurdles here.
OTOH, which of you guys thinks this is all a bunch of crap and could care less about it? And your reasons for thinking so.
Tri
I read this great interview article involving Nat Sobel, about the state of publishing, editors and agents in today's industry.
Below is cribbed from:http://pw.org/content/agents_amp_edi...gent_nat_sobel
People in the business talk about how eight out of ten readers, or whatever the number actually is, are women. I think it's very difficult for young male writers to get published, especially today. I wonder what you think about that and how you've dealt with that in your career.
I certainly think it's very difficult for male writers who are not writing thrillers. They have a much tougher road. We've read a number of pretty good novels by male writers that we know just won't go. Male coming-of-age novels are impossible to sell. We've already talked about how it's getting more and more difficult to sell fiction. Let me give you a better picture of it by looking back on last year. Five of us in the agency read submissions—everyone downstairs and Judith and myself. Five of us. We have an editorial meeting on Thursdays. I never talk to Judith about what I've read except at this meeting so it's all fresh for all of us. We generally read partial manuscripts, or complete manuscripts. Everyone averages about two of those per week. So, in an average year, that's more than five hundred manuscripts. Last year, from those five hundred books, we took on three new writers. And we were only able to sell one of them. Remember that much of what we get is from writers I've written to after reading their stories in the literary journals—we get very little over the transom. So look at those odds.
They're very tough.
Damn right. We've spent a lot of time editing through second and third drafts and finally abandoning books because we don't think we can get the writer up to the level we want. We have to give up on them. Occasionally those books will get published too. But the odds are really difficult, and for the male writers it's even harder.
Is there anything they can do to make their odds better?
I'm always looking for the unusual. I think it may require writing something of a historical nature, with a historical setting. They have to be able to get an idea of what's on the best-seller list today and see that, outside the thriller genre, there aren't too many male fiction writers who are succeeding. And I don't think that's going to change for a while.
But isn't that troubling?
Sure it's troubling. I think it's troubling for all literary fiction writers today. But particularly for the male writers, who are only gradually becoming aware of how limiting that audience is. But I think you can find good male writers who can write from the woman's point of view, too. I remember a first novel I sold years ago. The writer himself was in his early thirties, but the novel was a first-person novel from the point of view of a sixty-two-year-old woman. It was entirely in first person, and it was a terrific story. It began his career. So if a male writer can write from the female point of view, or has a story that will interest a woman's audience, I think he has a better chance than somebody who's writing the kind of Hemingway-esque stuff we read in school.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My Comments to another poster about this article:
tri, it can't be all genre fic can it?
i'm thinking suspese, thrillers, sci fi / fantasy,
mystery, horror etc...there's great male authors
in all those fields.
some interesting thoughts from sobel in
this article. what i am sad about is the fact
that debut authors are such a hard sell,
esp debut fiction authors.
Well, I dunno. I felt a disturbance in the force when he said that male writers don't stand much of a chance unless they're selling thrillers. That's kind of a wide blanket statement, and I wouldn't necessarily agree with it. I would only disagree about fantasy--lot's of good male writers there. You're correct about males doing particulary well in SF and Horror, although the horror market is pretty much sewn up by the "name" authors like King, Koontz, Barker, Bradner, Matheson and Campbell and others(sp?). The horror audience is not large enough to sustain a new flux of male horror writers. I've seen (I think) one horror success story at AW as far as a major debut sale--Liam Jackson's books. There's probably more. My agent told me that SF is such a small market that it was best I switch genres. This was after a devastating round of no-takers in several rounds of SF submissions.
Maybe what Sobel meant was that the smaller male audience will read techno and espionage thrillers, so those are the ones that should be written by men? I've heard that 65% of all books bought are by women, thus they are the dominent audience. I agree with that figure. But...Sobel says (actually the interviewer says) that eight out of ten books are read by women. If that's the case, and it's changed that drastically in the last few years, then male authors are in real deep shite.
I do have a current thriller now repped--male protag--but the big houses are saying that it's too hard to push that right now. My next up is a paranormal romance with a female protag, and I think that I just might stay right there for a while. I've seriously considered changing my name from Chris to Christine in the sub line. Hah! There is really no other place for me to go. Keep in mind, this is my experience
Yes, the hard sell on debut authors in the article was discouraging overall.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, guys...what do you think of this trend? I've seen it firsthand, and it's clearly a marketing decision because the numbers don't lie--the female audience is supporting more purchases and readership, so naturally the bean counters will lean in that direction. That's a given.
But, please. This is not a thread to flame genders, or declare that this is another women empowering women kind of thing. It's not. Male writers just might have to adapt in order to jump some hurdles here.
OTOH, which of you guys thinks this is all a bunch of crap and could care less about it? And your reasons for thinking so.
Tri
)
