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Old 03-20-2008, 03:43 AM   #1
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The Perils Of Art In The New Millenium
Bin Laden Slams EU Over Prophet Cartoons

"Osama bin Laden slammed the publication of drawings insulting to the Prophet Muhammad in a new audio message posted late Wednesday and warned Europeans of a strong reaction to come.

The message, which appeared on a militant Web site that has carried al-Qaida statements in the past and bore the logo of the extremist group's media wing al-Sahab, showed a still image of bin Laden aiming with an AK-47.

A voice believed to be bin Laden's described the cartoons as taking place in the framework of a "new Crusade" against Islam and warned Europeans that a reaction would come.

"The response will be what you see and not what you hear and let our mothers bereave us if we do not make victorious our messenger of God," he said, without specifying what action would be taken."
(Full story HERE)


So what should be done about this? What can be done about this?

Was it right for those papers to reprint those pictures? And is it wrong for the free press of a free Western nation to have to control what material they print out of fear?
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:46 AM   #2
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I hope I'm not out of line here, but I'm starting to get the feeling that that Osama Bin Laden might be a little nuts.
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:48 AM   #3
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dont be offensive to other writers, billy.
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Old 03-20-2008, 04:50 AM   #4
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So what should be done about this? What can be done about this?
rerun the pictures? run more?
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Old 03-20-2008, 04:54 AM   #5
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So, ah, the U.S. is no longer the chief enemy...now it's cartoons???

Kinda like Napoleon giving up on ruling Europe and switching to robbing 7-11's...
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Old 03-20-2008, 05:16 AM   #6
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Well, it just makes you wonder.

So many people blame the US and decry its actions and say we're ultimately responsible for all these terror attacks etc.

Then, here's a peaceful country, never bothered anybody, who's citizens now have to worry about suicide bombers and assassins all because of a goddamn cartoon!

WTF?
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Old 03-20-2008, 05:21 AM   #7
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the european cartoonists and editors are CIA agents who are doing this to inflame islam in order to start wars to enrich defense contractors and generally advance US hegemony.
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Old 03-20-2008, 05:27 AM   #8
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The Danish are in trouble now then.

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Old 03-20-2008, 05:28 AM   #9
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the european cartoonists and editors are CIA agents who are doing this to inflame islam in order to start wars to enrich defense contractors and generally advance US hegemony.
I guess if it worked once...
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Old 03-20-2008, 05:35 AM   #10
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I guess if it worked once...
you can join them. you just have to take a simple test...
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Old 03-20-2008, 05:40 AM   #11
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you can join them. you just have to take a simple test...
Sounds good. But I want to do it in Canada. They need some excitement.
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Old 03-20-2008, 05:47 AM   #12
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Old 03-20-2008, 05:51 AM   #13
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Old 03-20-2008, 06:16 AM   #14
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Kudos, Mr. Haskins.

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Old 03-20-2008, 06:18 AM   #15
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Sounds like PA's new spam email subject line.
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Old 03-20-2008, 08:23 AM   #16
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So many people blame the US and decry its actions and say we're ultimately responsible for all these terror attacks etc.

Then, here's a peaceful country, never bothered anybody, who's citizens now have to worry about suicide bombers and assassins all because of a goddamn cartoon!
If it wasn't the cartoons, there'd be some other excuse for outrage. Women's bathing suits, short pants, men who don't have beards, going to church, not praying to their god, sports, flying kites (seriously, that was outlawed in Afghanistan).

It is our very existence which offends the muslim extremists. There is no appeasement which will satisfy them. If we cave in on the cartoons, then they'll just come back with the next freedom they want us to remove in the name of some bastardized twisting of diplomatic appeasement.
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Old 03-20-2008, 09:26 AM   #17
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It is our very existence which offends the muslim extremists. There is no appeasement which will satisfy them. If we cave in on the cartoons, then they'll just come back with the next freedom they want us to remove in the name of some bastardized twisting of diplomatic appeasement.
Except that a depiction of Mohammed's face is considered blasphemy to all Muslims, not just the fundamentalists. It's idolatry to them. This isn't about "appeasement" so much as it's offensive and ethnocentric to assume that the Muslims who are not fanatical are just going to accept that countries outside of the Middle East are going to do stuff like this.

Personally, as an artist myself, I like to be at least somewhat sensitive to religions outside my paganism. Including Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto, and whatever other religion that exists.
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Old 03-20-2008, 09:59 AM   #18
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So what should be done about this? What can be done about this?
don't ask me.*
but ask the three presidential candidates and the one with the most effective answer (that won't produce dangerous retaliation) should be our next president

*because i would say make a sin city type flicker.
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Old 03-20-2008, 06:24 PM   #19
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Except that a depiction of Mohammed's face is considered blasphemy to all Muslims, not just the fundamentalists. It's idolatry to them. This isn't about "appeasement" so much as it's offensive and ethnocentric to assume that the Muslims who are not fanatical are just going to accept that countries outside of the Middle East are going to do stuff like this.

Personally, as an artist myself, I like to be at least somewhat sensitive to religions outside my paganism. Including Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto, and whatever other religion that exists.
Huh? I can understand not going into their country and doing that. That’s perfectly fine and reasonable.

But to say that it’s not okay ANYWHERE? That the Danes don’t have the right to do whatever the hell they damn please in their own country if Muslims don’t like it?!?!

Wait a minute. I’m absolutely amazed by your assertion, if that is what it is. This is another sovereign nation and a free people and by what right does anybody of any religion have to decree somebody should die because they did not act in accordance with a religion they don’t even believe in?!?!

That’s craziness.

So it’s okay for them to bomb us because we don’t make our women wear veils? So we’re being offensive and ethnocentric if we eat pork here in our own damn country? So if a Dane draws a political cartoon (which is a valid comment about the state of the world and is actually news) in his OWN newspaper, they are being offensive and ethnocentric?! So it’s okay for them to be bombed and beheaded and kidnapped and live their lives in fear?

And not just Danes, but according to the statement - all Europeans should fear now.

Wow.

Mindsets like that are part of the problem. You can be sensitive as you want when portraying any and all religions – that’s fine. But it’s also your God-given right (as it is the Danes and the Europeans and all free Western nations) to NOT be as sensitive as you want to any and all religions.

As a matter of fact, here in the ol’ US of A (and in Denmark and Europe) you don’t have to believe in God at all and guess what? Nobody will come and kill you! Yep! That’s right! You’re free to believe what you want to believe!

You won’t be stoned or beheaded or made to wear a veil or beaten and imprisoned if you don’t happen to like men, or beaten if you don’t act the way a man wants (and nothing happens to the man as it’s his right according to law) or any such things if you choose to be who you want to be or choose not to believe in a religion.

For you to defend such actions displays a horrifying naiveté. For you to say that the Danes should show consideration for Muslims in another land when deciding how to live their lives in their own country is as ridiculous as saying we should not eat beef cuz Indians worship cows.
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Old 03-21-2008, 02:38 AM   #20
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Huh? I can understand not going into their country and doing that. That’s perfectly fine and reasonable.

But to say that it’s not okay ANYWHERE? That the Danes don’t have the right to do whatever the hell they damn please in their own country if Muslims don’t like it?!?!

Wait a minute. I’m absolutely amazed by your assertion, if that is what it is. This is another sovereign nation and a free people and by what right does anybody of any religion have to decree somebody should die because they did not act in accordance with a religion they don’t even believe in?!?!

That’s craziness.

So it’s okay for them to bomb us because we don’t make our women wear veils? So we’re being offensive and ethnocentric if we eat pork here in our own damn country? So if a Dane draws a political cartoon (which is a valid comment about the state of the world and is actually news) in his OWN newspaper, they are being offensive and ethnocentric?! So it’s okay for them to be bombed and beheaded and kidnapped and live their lives in fear?

And not just Danes, but according to the statement - all Europeans should fear now.

Wow.

Mindsets like that are part of the problem. You can be sensitive as you want when portraying any and all religions – that’s fine. But it’s also your God-given right (as it is the Danes and the Europeans and all free Western nations) to NOT be as sensitive as you want to any and all religions.

As a matter of fact, here in the ol’ US of A (and in Denmark and Europe) you don’t have to believe in God at all and guess what? Nobody will come and kill you! Yep! That’s right! You’re free to believe what you want to believe!

You won’t be stoned or beheaded or made to wear a veil or beaten and imprisoned if you don’t happen to like men, or beaten if you don’t act the way a man wants (and nothing happens to the man as it’s his right according to law) or any such things if you choose to be who you want to be or choose not to believe in a religion.

For you to defend such actions displays a horrifying naiveté. For you to say that the Danes should show consideration for Muslims in another land when deciding how to live their lives in their own country is as ridiculous as saying we should not eat beef cuz Indians worship cows.


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Old 03-21-2008, 02:45 AM   #21
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For you to defend such actions displays a horrifying naiveté. For you to say that the Danes should show consideration for Muslims in another land when deciding how to live their lives in their own country is as ridiculous as saying we should not eat beef cuz Indians worship cows.
For Goddess' sake, I wasn't defending the death threats, and I certainly wasn't saying that people should censor themselves. I was saying to Joe that all Muslims get offended when their Prophet's face is depicted, not just the fanatical ones, and that we shouldn't be surprised when Muslims do get offended when Mohammed is depicted.

I'm also calling for a little sensitivity here. That's not the same as outright censorship.
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Old 03-21-2008, 03:55 AM   #22
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I'm also calling for a little sensitivity here. That's not the same as outright censorship.
i'm sensitive to the fact that the fundamental right of human expression is diminished when artists give in to threats by anyone.
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Old 03-21-2008, 03:58 AM   #23
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KTC is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKTC is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKTC is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKTC is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKTC is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKTC is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKTC is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKTC is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKTC is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKTC is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKTC is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments


Let me at 'im.
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Old 03-21-2008, 04:12 AM   #24
InfinityGoddess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Haskins View Post
i'm sensitive to the fact that the fundamental right of human expression is diminished when artists give in to threats by anyone.
I am too. But at the same time, if you want unity in the world, you can't go around offending people.
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Old 03-21-2008, 04:17 AM   #25
William Haskins
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William Haskins is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsWilliam Haskins is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsWilliam Haskins is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsWilliam Haskins is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsWilliam Haskins is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsWilliam Haskins is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsWilliam Haskins is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsWilliam Haskins is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsWilliam Haskins is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsWilliam Haskins is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsWilliam Haskins is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
watch me.
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