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Old 04-01-2009, 04:19 PM   #8276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeFlower View Post
One circumstance where I've seen second person work well is when it's clear that "you" is not actually the reader, but a distinct character the narrator is addressing. An example being John Scalzi's THE SAGAN DIARY, in which the narrator is speaking addressing her husband for most of the story. I'm not sure that cases like that really count as second-person, though, as they feel more like either first (the narrator) or third-person detached (as with epistolary novels, in which readers might see letters that address the intended recipient in the second person, but we're not actually inside the head of the person who wrote the letter--we're observing externally). UJ, am I on crack about those being second person?
I don't want to say you're on crack, but that's not second person. In the Scalzi example you give since there is a narrator, even if most of the book is in "you" form, it is third or first person depending on how the narrator refers to herself, I or she. epistolary novels, also, are not second person.

Second person is a weird POV. It's even hard to explain because most people, when they think of second person, end up putting a narrator behind "you". (as in the Scalzi example) That there is some unseen person telling you what you are doing. But if there is an unseen narrator then it's not second person. It is closer in form to first person than 3rd person. In first person, the narrator is clear, it is the "I" character. In 2nd person, the narrator is the "you" character. I've written in 2nd person, and I think everyone should try it. It can be fun.
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Old 04-01-2009, 05:30 PM   #8277
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That does sound like fun. Once I master third and first person writing, in about fifty years, I'll give second a shot.
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Old 04-01-2009, 05:33 PM   #8278
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Originally Posted by euclid View Post
What planet are you from? The bible is NOT a piece of american literature.
I kind of is... Don't we own the world? Doesn't that make all literature American?

I know I saw the deed around here somewhere. Somebody go ask Bush where he put all the deeds when he left...

<returns tongue to the center of mouth>
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Old 04-01-2009, 05:57 PM   #8279
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Somebody go ask Bush where he put all the deeds when he left...
No, no, no... it was where did he put all the weed when he left...
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Old 04-01-2009, 08:17 PM   #8280
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Old 04-01-2009, 08:24 PM   #8281
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I'm beginning to understand why they are having trouble with the Middle East peace talks. You folks are hyper-sensitive about what tense a novel is written in. Please remember, everyone has an opinion. Your opinion is just as valid to you, as mine is to me. I don't think the literary world will come to an end if your opinion isn't shared by everyone else.

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Old 04-01-2009, 08:59 PM   #8282
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No! Everyone will share MY opinion and LOVE it...OR ELSE! (Don't worry, my wife doesn't pay any attention to me either)
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:19 PM   #8283
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I should check in more often. I find myself involved in a brouhaha/rhubarb/dustup.

Maestro thought my statement was too sweeping. It probably was. If his response seemed curt, well, Maestro's one of the reasons I hang around here, and I'm always glad to hear from him. Also, Empress's mention of Damon Runyon reminds me that the annoyance isn't universal even for me. I like Damon Runyon.

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Old 04-01-2009, 10:27 PM   #8284
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Not you too Jim?....sigh....all is lost.
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:37 PM   #8285
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Happy April Fool's Day, Uncle Jim, and all the other great people here at Absolute Write...

WE ALL ROCK!!

(oKAY, SO a.f'S.d. Isn'T A hOLLIDAY... Let me have my moment)
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:46 PM   #8286
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Uncle Jim,

I was wondering when we could have fun disecting another first page? I'd recommend Twilight (which I haven't read yet) in honor of the day but anything else would do too.
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Old 04-02-2009, 12:46 AM   #8287
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I haven't read it either, but I'd love to do the first page test.
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Old 04-02-2009, 03:11 AM   #8288
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I'm just going to say this. I went to Amazon.com and looked up Twilight. I read the first two pages of the "Look Inside" feature they have. Two things I pick out that are obvious. First is Bella Swan. If anyone is aware of the name Bella, it means beautiful. So the meaning of the name is beautiful swan. I don't know about anybody else, but I pick out my names carefully giving thought to their meanings and origins. She complains about everything starting with the first page. Okay maybe not everything since I only read the first two pages, but she complained about her father, leaving Phoenix, living in Washington where it rained constantly. That about encompassed the first two pages.

I wondered about this book, only because my oldest niece "loved loved loved" this book. After everything I heard about it, both good and bad, I was intrigued to find out about before spending what $15 (I haven't looked at the price in a bookstore so I could be wrong. Amazon.com has over eighty used books for sale under $10) for this book. Now I know not to.
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Old 04-02-2009, 04:03 AM   #8289
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I read the first page, and only continued to the second because I'm familiar with the Pacific Northwest, and felt some connection. I read the second page, and turned only to find out why all of this information was important. I didn't find enough on page three to make me care.

I'll inevitably end up reading this book due to the demands of friends and family members, but I'm finishing the Grisham I'm on on first; and a few other books I haven't started yet.
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Old 04-02-2009, 04:13 AM   #8290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calliopenjo View Post
She complains about everything starting with the first page.
Makes sense. Swans are notoriously mean-spirited.
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Old 04-02-2009, 04:24 AM   #8291
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Quote:
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Makes sense. Swans are notoriously mean-spirited.
Anybody read The Trumpet of the Swan? I was in maybe fourth grade, but I remember loving that book. It was about a swan who couldn't honk(trumpet) so a boy helped him, and cut the webbing in one of his feet so he could work the keys on a trumpet.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program...
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Old 04-02-2009, 06:23 AM   #8292
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I was planning to avoid posting until I finished the first draft of my novel, but damn - the retitling of this thread took me from 'quietly amused' to 'cackling aloud'...
Also: hi!
//back to work
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Old 04-02-2009, 05:38 PM   #8293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calliopenjo View Post
She complains about everything starting with the first page.
That's quite a complaint. I mean, where else will everything start? [Missing icon of insufferable grin]

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Old 04-02-2009, 06:20 PM   #8294
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That's quite a complaint. I mean, where else will everything start? [Missing icon of insufferable grin]

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Old 04-02-2009, 09:22 PM   #8295
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Jim,

I've noticed that many books can be bought from Amazon for crazy knockdown prices. "New and Used from $2.95" or "Used - in good condition for $0.01" Even some recent books can be bought in this way.

How does this benefit the author? How much royalty would he/she get from a 1 cent sale?
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:28 PM   #8296
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Aw man, I missed the title of this thread yesterday. What was it?


Also, I don't know if this has been covered before, but: Pen Names. How do they work, and who decides them--you, the publisher, the agent?
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:41 PM   #8297
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Aw man, I missed the title of this thread yesterday. What was it?
Reading Twilight with Uncle Jim.

The AW site became a kind of Twilight "zone". All sorts of threads were renamed with Twilight references and many people had Twilight avatars. Even Uncle Jim sparkled!


Quote:
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Also, I don't know if this has been covered before, but: Pen Names. How do they work, and who decides them--you, the publisher, the agent?
Do a search through the threads. There's a slew of them on pen names. I don't have time right now or I'd dig you up a few. Sorry.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:41 PM   #8298
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Quote:
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Jim,

I've noticed that many books can be bought from Amazon for crazy knockdown prices. "New and Used from $2.95" or "Used - in good condition for $0.01" Even some recent books can be bought in this way.

How does this benefit the author? How much royalty would he/she get from a 1 cent sale?
I'm not Uncle Jim, but...an author doesn't make any money from the sale of a used book!
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:03 PM   #8299
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How does this benefit the author? How much royalty would he/she get from a 1 cent sale?
There aren't any additional royalties. The author already got paid for that physical copy.

Remember that the number one reason anyone buys and reads a book is because the reader already read and enjoyed another book by that same author. So the author benefits that way -- the creation of another loyal fan.
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:08 PM   #8300
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There aren't any additional royalties. The author already got paid for that physical copy.

Remember that the number one reason anyone buys and reads a book is because the reader already read and enjoyed another book by that same author. So the author benefits that way -- the creation of another loyal fan.
Fans are where it's at, really, anyway. I want to make money writing, sure, but the gratification from somebody enjoying something I wrote is soooo good!
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