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Old 02-22-2009, 07:42 PM   #7951
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Smile Happy Birthday Uncle Jim


Have a Good Day Uncle Jim.
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:36 PM   #7952
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DamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Oh, is it today?

HAPPY B-DAY, UNCLE JIM!!
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:04 PM   #7953
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Oooops... There's a whole thread dedicated to birthday wishes for Uncle Jim in Office Party. Hadn't seen it till just now...
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Old 02-23-2009, 08:56 AM   #7954
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James D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Thanks, all.
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:54 AM   #7955
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Happy B-Day Uncle Jim!
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:15 AM   #7956
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James D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Good people all, d'ye know what you could do for my birthday? Order a copy of Salt and Silver by my beloved elder daughter, Katherine Juliana.

It's her first novel, and I'm intensely proud of her (for all that she hasn't allowed me to read it, and didn't mention that she'd written it until after it sold.....)
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:24 AM   #7957
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Bartholomew is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsBartholomew is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsBartholomew is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsBartholomew is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsBartholomew is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsBartholomew is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsBartholomew is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsBartholomew is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsBartholomew is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsBartholomew is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsBartholomew is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
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Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald View Post
Good people all, d'ye know what you could do for my birthday? Order a copy of Salt and Silver by my beloved elder daughter, Katherine Juliana.

It's her first novel, and I'm intensely proud of her (for all that she hasn't allowed me to read it, and didn't mention that she'd written it until after it sold.....)
Hey, wow. Guess it runs in the family.
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:51 AM   #7958
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Cassiopeia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCassiopeia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCassiopeia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCassiopeia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCassiopeia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCassiopeia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCassiopeia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCassiopeia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCassiopeia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCassiopeia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCassiopeia is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald View Post
Good people all, d'ye know what you could do for my birthday? Order a copy of Salt and Silver by my beloved elder daughter, Katherine Juliana.

It's her first novel, and I'm intensely proud of her (for all that she hasn't allowed me to read it, and didn't mention that she'd written it until after it sold.....)
What a sweet dad you are! And so supportive too even when she left you out of the loop. You must be so proud of her. Congrats to both of you.
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:01 PM   #7959
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James D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Impediments aid art. Add restrictions rather than take them away.


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The only thing that I'd change is to delete the line It was like watching a bad B movie. Because that would remind the reader that this is a bad B movie. (And has been, and will be. Thus you never have your character say "You sound like the villain in a cheap romance!" lest the readers say, "Y'know, you're right," and seek something other than a cheap romance for their reading pleasure. Nor do you have your scientist/inventor say of her invention, "It sounds like something out of science fiction, but...."
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:05 PM   #7960
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Hmmm, I wonder if "I know it sounds like a line from a Newberry Award winner, but..." would work.
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:48 PM   #7961
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James D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpmann View Post
Hmmm, I wonder if "I know it sounds like a line from a Newberry Award winner, but..." would work.
No, I don't think so. The characters can not be aware that they're in a work of art.
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Old 02-24-2009, 05:00 AM   #7962
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Shweta is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsShweta is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsShweta is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsShweta is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsShweta is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsShweta is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsShweta is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsShweta is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsShweta is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsShweta is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsShweta is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
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Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald View Post
No, I don't think so. The characters can not be aware that they're in a work of art.
...Unless it serves the story?

In Pamela Dean's Secret Country trilogy, the well-read kid characters and up falling into another world, and keep trying to figure out how things will work there with "Well in Narnia, no time passes at home..." and such reasoning. And of course, they're wrong every time

Part of why that didn't make me, as a reader, more aware that I was reading a book is that -- well! The "kids falling into other world" trope is so established that it would have been weirder if these kids were not aware of it -- and also the series revolves largely around that tension between what's make-believe and what's real.
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Old 02-24-2009, 05:56 AM   #7963
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Uncle Jim,

I have a question. Yeah I know. Laugh. Anyway, would it be wrong to write: He yelled across the room "Don't go there!" Or would it be better to write: "Don't go there!" He said looking at Sam across the room. If I've confused you my question is this. Is it just better to use "said?" Instead of declared, yelled, rambled. . .
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Old 02-24-2009, 06:08 AM   #7964
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Komnena is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKomnena is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKomnena is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKomnena is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKomnena is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKomnena is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKomnena is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKomnena is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKomnena is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKomnena is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKomnena is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Remind me of Salt and Silver again on FRiday.
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Old 02-24-2009, 06:10 AM   #7965
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DamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsDamaNegra is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
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No, I don't think so. The characters can not be aware that they're in a work of art.
Have you never read El Quijote?
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Old 02-24-2009, 08:15 AM   #7966
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Breaking the fourth wall is one of those things that you can make work, but there are eight and sixty very good reasons not to.

Putting a character into a fictional world (Neverending Story) isn't the same as breaking the fourth wall. "I'm in a story world" is more "I'm an intruder into this story world" and it's worked. "This world seems to behave like Narnia" works as well-- Narnia is part of the literary canon so it's not inconceivable for a story character to refer to it. Characters believing they're the main character in a story isn't too far, either. As in real life, many characters like to imagine themselves as the hero in a fairy tale, as the lead character in some wonderful story, or, if you live in the suburbs, as a cast member in a soap opera. It works when they're wrong-- they may think they're in a story, as long as they don't know it's yours. When your character believes she's in a remake of Pride & Prejudice, she'd best be wrong or your readers won't bother with your remake of Emma.
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:36 PM   #7967
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James D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calliopenjo View Post
He yelled across the room "Don't go there!" Or would it be better to write: "Don't go there!" He said looking at Sam across the room.
I'd say:

He yelled, "Don't go there!"

or maybe:

"Don't go there," he yelled.

He said looking at Sam across the room is clumsy.

Said-words are a spice.

You wouldn't want your page to read:

Quote:
"The green ones don't taste any better," Joe advised.

"In your opinion," Sam babbled. He was sorting the green M&Ms into a separate pile.

"Do you have to do that?" Joe commented. "It's crazy." The tic-tic-tic sound of M&Ms landing on the pile was the loudest sound in their apartment. It had been quiet ever since Mandy moved out.

"Crazy? Who are you calling crazy?" Sam emphasized. "I wasn't the one who spent his entire teenage years in the laughing academy."

"My parents had me committed because Dad lost his job and they couldn't afford to keep me," Joe grinned. "There wasn't anything wrong with me."

Tic! An M&M fell off the table and rolled across the floor. Sam watched it go.

"I think I'll call my Mom," Joe expressed after a moment.

"What are you going to call her?" Sam grunted.

"Don't go there," Joe yelled.
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:53 PM   #7968
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My favorite is still:

"Shut up," I explained.
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Old 02-26-2009, 02:26 AM   #7969
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Hi Uncle Jim
I have a question. Will I get in trouble for mentioning REAL book titles in a story without saying please? Or do I have to say please?
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Old 02-26-2009, 03:22 AM   #7970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald View Post
No, I don't think so. The characters can not be aware that they're in a work of art.
Unless that's the point of the whole thing (like a Jasper Fforde novel, or this new "Lost in Austen" show).

It's either a centerpiece or nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpmann View Post
My favorite is still:

"Shut up," I explained.
It's actually

Are you lost daddy I arsked tenderly.

Shut up he explained.

From The Young Immigrunts by Ring Lardner, Jr. (probably actually by Ring Lardner, Sr.--written as a parody of The Young Visiters by Daisy Ashford, which was a hit the previous year.)
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Old 02-26-2009, 04:59 AM   #7971
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James D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Titles can't be copyrighted.

Be sure that mentioning the titles is vital to the story; at the same time be sure that people who haven't read those works will still "get" your story.

(Or, not. I recently had a story published in which I had the protagonist reading Grimm's Deutsche Mythologie. Many of my readers would be unfamiliar with this book.)
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:32 AM   #7972
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Thanks Uncle Jim.
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Old 02-26-2009, 06:23 PM   #7973
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Are you lost daddy I arsked tenderly.

Shut up he explained.

From The Young Immigrunts by Ring Lardner, Jr. (probably actually by Ring Lardner, Sr.--written as a parody of The Young Visiters by Daisy Ashford, which was a hit the previous year.)
Why do you say this was probably by RL Snr.?

Ordered a copy of Daisy Ashford's book from Amazon
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Old 02-26-2009, 06:28 PM   #7974
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James D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
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Old 02-26-2009, 06:53 PM   #7975
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James D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
The Young Visiters; or, Mr. Salteena's Plan by Daisy Ashford. A novel, from 1919. It went into multiple printings in its first year.

Ms. Ashford was nine years old when she wrote it.

The novel was turned into a stage play, which ran in New York and London in 1920.
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