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Old 09-15-2006, 01:19 AM   #5551
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One of these days, an author is going to write "the best book ever written" and she's going to believe it and the world is going to believe it, too.

Then for that author, it will be Truth writ large.

We can imagine that it will happen; we hope it might just.

It's the lie that sustains us.
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Old 09-15-2006, 01:37 AM   #5552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChunkyC
(Hi T ... I hope Mac didn't talk your ear off at LACon )
But what a pleasant way to lose an ear!

That "list of lies" post reads like it ought to be sung to the tune of "The Twelve Days of Christmas":

On day 1 of pre-production,
My publisher did say,
"We'll fix i-it i-in the prooooooofs..."
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Old 09-15-2006, 03:16 AM   #5553
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James D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Nielsen Hayden
Aaaargh! Did I actually post that in public? How young and irresponsible of me.
Indeed you did, right out in a public newsgroup where the world could see it.

Quote:
I feel bad for anyone who's heard all four. (I also envy them.)
Heck, I've gotten a fifth, after "We'll fix that in the paperback": "We'll fix that in the next printing."
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Old 09-15-2006, 06:13 AM   #5554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Nielsen Hayden
Aaaargh! Did I actually post that in public? How young and irresponsible of me.
So, are you saying this was written before you became, "the learned Teresa Nielsen Hayden?" If so, it was a very prescient WAG(wild *** guess).

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Old 09-17-2006, 08:16 PM   #5555
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Reading back, I can't help but ask: Who's Yog?
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:45 PM   #5556
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On another board at one point, as I understand it, Uncle Jim went by the name "Yog Sysop". There's a logical reason for that name, but I don't know how to spell it.
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Old 09-17-2006, 10:29 PM   #5557
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Sounds like a Cthulhu-based Systems Operator to me.
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Old 09-18-2006, 09:50 PM   #5558
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James D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
http://www.sff.net/people/yog/
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Old 09-18-2006, 11:04 PM   #5559
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Thanks for the link, Uncle Jim.
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Old 09-19-2006, 08:59 PM   #5560
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Today be International Talk Like a Pirate Day. Arrrr, Matey!

A couple o' off-topic things, then an on-topic thing:

Learn CPR at Home (for $30). I be a big believer in CPR (an' in public-access AEDs -- if yer community dasn't be havin' `em, be seein' if ye can get th' program going).

Chapter Three o' Land o' Mist an' Snow be now on line. (An' a very nice article in one o' our local weeklies last Friday.)

Now th' on-topic thing:

Crawford Kilian has a series o' articles on Writin' a Novel that ye might find useful.
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Old 09-19-2006, 09:16 PM   #5561
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second that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

Learn CPR at Home (for $30). I be a big believer in CPR (an' in public-access AEDs -- if yer community dasn't be havin' `em, be seein' if ye can get th' program going).
I would like to reinforce the above mentioned items.

It is important for everyone to take some courses in CPR, first aid, and etc. I personally have performed CPR dozens of times. If I can do it, anyone can. There have been a few times where I thought my arms would fall off before someone could spell me.

Second, take the course in AED. It is not long or expensive. The machine is not usable without someone to operate it. The instructions are usually clear enough, but knowing what to do in advance is IMPORTANT.

(Sorry, my piratespeak is limited to ordering grog, that is if someone else is paying for it.)

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Old 09-19-2006, 10:05 PM   #5562
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CPR an' AED courses be available in lots o' communities. Prices (an' times an' places they's offered) vary: try callin' yer local ambulance squad or hospital t' be seein' when they'll be gi'en an' what they'll cost.

Th' courses range from Free on up, dependin'.

(In our community, me ambulance squad puts a wee kit wi' ever' public-access AED, consisin' o' a ziplock baggie holdin' a pocket CPR facemask, a couple o' pairs o' gloves, a set o' EMT shears, a washcloth, a disposable razor, an' a couple o' alcohol swabs.)

I be seein' CPR work wid me own eyes (that be, a guy down an' dead, subsequently walkin' ou' o' th' hospital wi' nay neuro deficits). `Tis worth 't t' know how t' do that.

(Particularly if ye`re a 50-60 year old female. Ye`re th' one most likely t' witness a cardiac event; th' shipmate sittin' across from ye at th' breakfast table goin' down hard. Ye dasn't want t' be seein' that an' nay know what ter do next.)

While th' modern public-access AEDs be havin' pictures on 'em an' a voice chip in 'em what will talk ye through th' whole procedure, 'tis good t' familiarize yersef wi' them first. Th' number one reason they dasn't work in th' field si th' swabbie operatin' them dasn't take th' pads ou' o' th' package. Th' number two reason be th' swabbie tries t' stick th' pads abroadside o' th' patient`s clothin' rather than on th' patient`s bare chest. If ye`re suddenly faced wi' a Dead Swabbie, things get excitin' in a hurry an' 'tis easy t' get flustered. Havin' had th' machine in yer hand once in a classroom settin' can take away a wee bit o' th' high-pucker-factor that I promise ye're goin' t' feel.


If ye wants ter buy an AED
for yer church or home or office, they start around $900.
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Old 09-20-2006, 01:56 AM   #5563
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Here are a couple more links for y'all:

First is to many of the books and movies that we've talked about in Learn Writing.

Next is to a bunch of books that would be interesting to writers.

All the associate income from sales of these books go to AW (and y'all remember the down-time we had a couple of months ago? Legal fees and such continue....)
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:43 PM   #5564
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A reading list for fantasy writers: http://www.worldfantasy.org/awards/
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Old 09-20-2006, 10:12 PM   #5565
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What sort of helps can a person wishing to write a book, say on the experiences of being LDS and divorced within a large LDS community find?

I was asked years ago after I stopped being LDS to write such a book by a therapist. Is this a self help genre? I have no idea how to begin such an undertaking.
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Old 09-20-2006, 10:16 PM   #5566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

(Particularly if ye`re a 50-60 year old female. Ye`re th' one most likely t' witness a cardiac event; th' shipmate sittin' across from ye at th' breakfast table goin' down hard. Ye dasn't want t' be seein' that an' nay know what ter do next.)
Me sainted mither always told me tha' the verra next thing a lively wench maun do is call her solicitor aboot the inheriting of the ship, and then see what booty (the dead mate's booty, not the wench's booty) be lyin' aboot in the form of life insurancy documents an' the ilk.

Did ye have aught else in mind, kind sar?

::curtseys deeply, revealing OEC, NSP, and CPR credentials tucked in a next ta' a pair of ... next ta a pair o' me latex gloves, ye' vile old gaffer::

******
Good book list.

I would add this one - Revising fiction: A handbook for writers by David Madden - with the caveat that it is not for the easily frightened. It covers 185 writing flaws your manuscript might have, tidily organized into 8 chapters by type of flaw. I found it useful as a writer and an editor because it put a name to the flaw, and showed how to fix it. Instead of saying "it sounds wrong", I can now say "you are committing the pathetic fallacy" and sound like I know what I'm doing.

And this one - A Writer's Guide to Transitional Words and Expressions
by Victor C. Pellegrino - which is good for writers who have a problem with connecting the phrases so that time, sequence or consequence is clear. There's more to connection than "and then".
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Old 09-20-2006, 10:34 PM   #5567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casiopeia
What sort of helps can a person wishing to write a book, say on the experiences of being LDS and divorced within a large LDS community find?

I was asked years ago after I stopped being LDS to write such a book by a therapist. Is this a self help genre? I have no idea how to begin such an undertaking.
The easiest way to write the first draft of an "experiences" book is chronologically ... just get it all out onto paper in more or less the order it happened. Don't be too concerned with style - just do a brain dump. Your plot already happened.

After you have it on paper, you can decide if the time-based organization works, add explanations of how LDS theology affected events, clean up the grammar, etc. Then you can also decide if it's a "how to cope" book, a personal memoir, or whatever.

But the first critical thing is to just write ... one way to handle something time-based is to open a file in your word processor and set it to "outline" view. Start a bunch of headings: family background, childhood, teenagehood, courtship, marriage, divorce, aftermath, future

As events come to mind, write them as paragraphs in the appropriate section. Learn to collapse and reveal levels of headings and it makes flipping back and forth as you remember events a lot easier. Make notes to yourself about things you need to ask others, or research, as you go. Don't stop writing because you don't a bit of information ... note what you need and keep typing.

When a section gets some material, you may find it easier to add more levels of subheadings and drag the events into things like:

Childhood
Learning to be LDS from others
Grandmother's influence
Teenagerhood
Dating non-LDS members
Dating LDS members
Nothing is permanent ... this is just labelling your events in a bucket so you can find them. If you decide later, after the events are on paper that you want to tell the story from the POV of you, your parents and your ex ... it's easier to do because of the headings.
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Old 09-20-2006, 11:32 PM   #5568
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Thank you! I had no idea how to even approach this and you are so helpful!

The first obstical I have to overcome however, is, no longer being LDS..ie..I left that religion...is that I have a concern about how the readers will view it. Is it just sour grapes or do I have something they might learn from.

The therapist's comments upon reading some of my journal entries was that I have the ability to reach people with my writing and that I would help a great deal of LDS women who are divorced. So his is a call for me to teach and help.

I am not certain I want to do it. Still something to think about At least now I have somewhere to start and who knows, it just might help me to understand the events as well.

Again, my gratitude.

Casi
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Old 09-21-2006, 03:27 AM   #5569
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Well, Casi, that sounds like a book you need to write.

First, get everything on paper. Then use novelists' techniques to make it interesting to others.

More than that -- we have a non-fiction section here at AW. You might want to hang out there, too.

------------

Oh. I've just heard that Amazon now allows folks to comment on the reviews posted there.

If I catch anyone from here commenting on reviews on your own book, I will come to your house and mock you in person. ABM, y'know?
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Old 09-21-2006, 03:33 AM   #5570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald
CPR an' AED courses be available in lots o' communities.
Oh -- funny coincidence. A good friend of mine woke up this morning at about 0130 with a panicky feeling. Yep, he was having a heart attack. (He's fine, in the Cardiac Care Unit right now.) And he's younger than me....
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Old 09-21-2006, 04:18 AM   #5571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald
If I catch anyone from here commenting on reviews on your own book, I will come to your house and mock you in person.
I give it two weeks before mocking amazon.com flamefights becomes so much like shooting fish in a barrel that people stop trying: "In today's news, Anne Rice flipped out on Amazon again. Also, the sky is blue."

I'm afraid that if I ever get published, I might be sorely tempted to go and leave "Thank you" notes on positive reviews (assuming of course that there are any). While I imagine that would be less likely to get me mocked than pulling an Anne Rice, it would probably still be a ridiculous waste of time and an all-around bad idea.
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Old 09-21-2006, 05:16 AM   #5572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casiopeia
Thank you! I had no idea how to even approach this and you are so helpful!

The first obstical I have to overcome however, is, no longer being LDS..ie..I left that religion...is that I have a concern about how the readers will view it. Is it just sour grapes or do I have something they might learn from.

Casi
Casi, I agree, Tsu's post was really generous and helpful.

As for how readers might view what you have to say, you can let that concern be a barrier or choose to forge ahead. Like Jim says, I think you should get it on paper first. It may well be sour grapes, but you still need to write it. Once that's done, you'll know what steps to take.
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Old 09-21-2006, 09:21 AM   #5573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aertep
Casi, I agree, Tsu's post was really generous and helpful.

As for how readers might view what you have to say, you can let that concern be a barrier or choose to forge ahead. Like Jim says, I think you should get it on paper first. It may well be sour grapes, but you still need to write it. Once that's done, you'll know what steps to take.
I wish it were sour grapes. You have no idea how much I do. There is no way for me to convery what just thinking about writing about it does to me. Or maybe you all do. It is one of those things that sometimes you just think would be better if you held funeral services and buried it and let it go. I still have alot of respect for the people who stay in that religion... I am not keen to hurt anyone. So...yeah..will have to think about what all of you said and maybe even just start as a journal entry so I can see how I feel about it.

Thanks a ton you guys
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Old 09-21-2006, 07:32 PM   #5574
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Remember that the moral of the "sour grapes" story was "It is easy to despise what you cannot have."

When a self-published author says "Bookstores are lousy places to sell books," that's "sour grapes."
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Old 09-21-2006, 07:52 PM   #5575
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An excellent writer knows exactly what his words mean. Well said, Uncle Jim. I'm always awed by your research. I never thought to look it up because I thought I knew what it meant, but you put a finer point on it.
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