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Old 03-28-2007, 02:14 AM   #26
TheGaffer
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Boy, I wonder how that dude got banned so quick. Boggles the mind.
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Old 03-28-2007, 02:41 AM   #27
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Makes you shiver in fear, don't it, Gaff?

Be afraid. Be very afraid.
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Old 03-28-2007, 02:54 AM   #28
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Boy, I wonder how that dude got banned so quick. Boggles the mind.
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Old 03-28-2007, 02:54 AM   #29
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I thought you were off slaying fish, Ray.

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Old 03-28-2007, 03:22 AM   #30
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The partisan fishing trip was canceled -- not enough red herrings.
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Old 03-28-2007, 08:48 AM   #31
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The partisan fishing trip was canceled -- not enough red herrings.
Were the herrings bait, or what you were fishing for?
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Old 03-28-2007, 06:13 PM   #32
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inquiring minds want to know!
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Old 03-29-2007, 09:59 PM   #33
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The year I was born, 1933, Adolph Hitler became Chancelor of Germany. He had schemed and murdered his way to that position. In 1939 he began to invade his neighbors. Soon after that the holocast began. He was admired by Joe Kennedy.

During WW2, Russia was our ally and Joseph Stalin was often refered to as "Uncle Joe". Since then we have come to know that Communism has been responsible for the death of even more millions. (recomended reading, "The black book of communism."

These two monsters were responsible for the slaughter of over 200 million people. Sadly, there were many in the U.S. and western europe who admired them. There were also many who refused to believe they were a threat and did everything and anything they could to prevent the U.S. from defending against them. These folks were and are even now refered to as "Willing Fools", unable or unwilling to understand the danger. They know little about the real world and what it takes for a society to survive some of which may be distastefull. There are times when you must use the principle of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" no matter what that friend may or prove to be later.

I, and others, firmly believe that western civilization is again at risk. It is being attacked from all sides escpecially from the islamofacists who have sworn to establish islamic law even if they have to kill every man, women and child to do so. These people are difficult to deter. One of Mohamed's contemporaries, Abu Bakr said, "We love death as our enemies love life." How do you deter a person who is willing to die in order to take you with him. Western women should take a few minutes to study Islamic law. If it doesn't make them shudder in fear then perhaps they are into whips and chains.

Even more dangerous, we are being attacked from within. Various self appointed elites, celebrities and politicians have taken it upon themselves to remake the west. Anarchists would love to overthow the government; all government from local to federal.
But the most dangerous are those that refuse to understand. I don't know why this is. Could it be lazyness, not wanting to study the problem or perhaps there is a level of cowardice involved in that they don't want to face the problem and will keep retreating to delay the final reconing. Will they keep retreating until their backs are against the wall, the very wall where they will meet their executioner?

Am I overstating this? Perhaps. However, I believe we should error on the side of safety. There is no success for the weak. Diplomacy only works from a position of strength. We are being weakend from within by self serving individuals who, I believe, do not understand the stakes. That Iran had the cahones to kidnap these sailors is a serious indication of the level of that weakness.

I fear for my beloved country. I fear for my grandchildren.

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Old 03-29-2007, 10:09 PM   #34
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Even more dangerous, we are being attacked from within. Various self appointed elites, celebrities and politicians have taken it upon themselves to remake the west. Anarchists would love to overthow the government; all government from local to federal.

You were going well until this wack-a-doodle stuff.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:32 PM   #35
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Boy, I wonder how that dude got banned so quick. Boggles the mind.
He thought he was being so clever, too. "dimocrats." It was almost cute.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:47 PM   #36
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He thought he was being so clever, too. "dimocrats." It was almost cute.
Yeah. Almost. Y'know, I don't mind of someone disagrees. That's cool. But I don't like when someone suggests that they have to be right because I'm a dolt for thinking differently.

I think it's sad that my children will never know what the world was like before September 11, 2001. My daughter's getting on a plane on Saturday and I know I won't relax until I get word from her grandparents that she's on the ground, safe and sound. I hate that. I never really liked flying, but now I really hate it. I do it, but I don't like it. And I hate that as well.

But I also don't like when people use fear as coercion. And I just don't think this war is turning out anything like the powers that be had hoped. I also don't think we're any safer as a result. Maybe, when this is all in the past, I'll be wrong. Actually, I hope I am. But right now, I wonder if it hurts more than it helps. Especially since the guy who did attack is still wandering around Pakistan or Afghanistan somewhere.

IMHO, FWIW...
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:52 PM   #37
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You were going well until this wack-a-doodle stuff.
Right or wrong, We should have been supporting Bush all the way. Our enemies think we are weak, OBL has stated it on a number of occasions. We have the military power to crush them. We do not have the political will because too many dont see the complete picture. Every time Sean Penn and others bad mouth the president or the U.S. in general the enemies take heart. Iraq would be clean and functioning by now had we presented a united front. Instead, each unfounded critism gives the islamofacists heart to keep killing. They believe we will eventually give in if they can kill enough innocents and soldiers. After that its katy bar the door.

If you dont see the danger from within then there's nothing more i can say. You have staked out your position and will defend it, most likely to the death.

"The enemy is using our good will against us." Atlas Shrugged.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:57 PM   #38
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Right or wrong, We should have been supporting Bush all the way.

Why should we support a wrong decision?

What does that accomplish?
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:06 PM   #39
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But I also don't like when people use fear as coercion. And I just don't think this war is turning out anything like the powers that be had hoped. I also don't think we're any safer as a result. .

IMHO, FWIW...
You will never know fear until you have lived under a murderous, totolitarian regime such as the one led by Sadam. I'm not surprised you don't feel safer. Under it all you have come to believe that your government has become impotent to protect you. I suspect you know why this is but you wont say it because it's not politically correct and, God help us, we live in a politicaly correct world. So you will continue to place yourself on the sacrificial alter in order not to appear foolish to your peers.

I'm sorry to pick on you and please understand I am using you as the generic person. Please educate yourself. Stop listening to the T.V. soundbites, the bumper sticker idiocy that passes for intelligent conversation. Stay away from the lemmings marching toward the cliff.
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:12 PM   #40
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Why should we support a wrong decision?

What does that accomplish?
For as long as I can remember, the left has been critizing our presidents and their administrations for consorting with despots. They said we should not support dictators or human rights abusers even though those dictators and abuser were supplying us with the life blood of civilization, oil. These idealists were the ones that supported the Warren commission that emasculated our CIA. As a result we got 9/11.

Finally, we got a president with the cahones to take one of them on and the left had a hissy fit and have done their damndest to destroy him. Now, change the scene to darfur where they are asking bush to go in, unilaterally, to "save the children." The hypocracy is mind numbing.
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:40 PM   #41
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Right or wrong, We should have been supporting Bush all the way.

"The enemy is using our good will against us." Atlas Shrugged.

No way, Jose. When you're wrong - deadly wrong - President or common man, I call BS.

It's our duty to protect and defend the Constitution and the people of our country against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Ayn Rand was a writer, okay? A good one with some interesting ideas - but still a writer.
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:53 PM   #42
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No way, Jose. When you're wrong - deadly wrong - President or common man, I call BS.

Wrong about what? For stepping in a doing what the UN had been threatening to do for years but was too gutless to do?

It's our duty to protect and defend the Constitution and the people of our country against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

I agree. Now lets identify them, dispasionately, with out partisanship and destroy them.

Ayn Rand was a writer, okay? A good one with some interesting ideas - but still a writer.
Does that alter the truth of the statement? Even so. She was a philospher and also a damn good writer. Sadly, Atlas was too long. It could have been cut in half and made its point. John Gaults speech was way too long, also. I've read all her works, some of them three or four times. each time I glean another nugget. I can identify many of her characters in todays political population.

I have to get back to work. I'm trying to insert a new theme in my latest effort with the tentative title, "The rise and fall of the Taliban Caliphate"
I want it at Chapter 6 and not sure how to do it. I'm up to Chapter 29 and this new theme will require maybe 5 chapters to develop. Right now I wish I hadn't thought of it. (sigh)
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:01 AM   #43
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One more thing. I voted for Bush, twice. I am not completely happy with his efforts. I think he was way too optomistic about Iraq. He is dead wrong on border security and his unwillingness to veto excessive spending, by both parties, has really got me ticked. However, given the alternatives, I still believe he was the best man. Both Gore and Kerry would have been a disaster.

Have a good day, all.
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:05 AM   #44
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He was dead wrong about a lot of things. Problem is - a lot of other people are, too.

Even so, I'll give him credit. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day - I'd find something he's done right if I looked hard enough - there's gotta be something he's done right -
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:21 AM   #45
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One more thing. I voted for Bush, twice.

Oh.My.God.
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:46 AM   #46
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Every time Sean Penn and others bad mouth the president or the U.S. in general the enemies take heart. Iraq would be clean and functioning by now had we presented a united front. Instead, each unfounded critism gives the islamofacists heart to keep killing.
Gee, I guess that's the consequence of free speech.
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:51 AM   #47
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He was dead wrong about a lot of things. Problem is - a lot of other people are, too.

Even so, I'll give him credit. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day - I'd find something he's done right if I looked hard enough - there's gotta be something he's done right -
I oughta neg-rep you for the overused clock statement, Unique. Triteness, on the Defense. 5 Yard Penalty. Repeat 1st Down.
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:56 AM   #48
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Every time Sean Penn and others bad mouth the president or the U.S. in general the enemies take heart. Iraq would be clean and functioning by now had we presented a united front. Instead, each unfounded critism gives the islamofacists heart to keep killing. They believe we will eventually give in if they can kill enough innocents and soldiers. After that its katy bar the door.

If you dont see the danger from within then there's nothing more i can say. You have staked out your position and will defend it, most likely to the death.

"The enemy is using our good will against us." Atlas Shrugged.
It's not Sean Penn's or the Dixie Chicks fault that we dilly dally around in Iraq.

The simple fact is, is that nobody has the guts to do the job that needs doing. It could be completed in days. A lot of civilians would die. A lot of women and children would die. It will never happen. No matter how many people are behind anything. No government anywhere is going to order that which would have to take place in order to stop it completely. So basically we have lost. We will also continue to lose because people will keep giving them billions of dollars which they will laugh about and keep killing us. The will to win doesn't exist. It will never exist. If 1000 Americans a day were dying it wouldn't exist. American just doesn't have the resolve. It has become soft with a lily white underbelly and it's going to get stuck.
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:58 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Mustangpilot View Post
Right or wrong, We should have been supporting Bush all the way. Our enemies think we are weak, OBL has stated it on a number of occasions. We have the military power to crush them.
That's a very unfortunate view. Just because we have 100,000 troops and missiles and nuclear power doesn't mean we're "strong." OBL knew America has military power. The fact the Bush led us through this wild goose chase, having to lie about WMD to get us into Iraq, which had nothing to do with 9/11, and after almost 6 years we still haven't caught OBL... it proved to OBL that Americans are stupid. And stupidity is never "strong" no matter how many guns you have.

Who cares about Sean Penn and Dixie Chicks -- to drag them into a discussion about Iraq policies is silly. They're just common folks exercising their freedom of speech -- and we don't have to agree with them at all. But forget them. Let's focus on the true policy makers and the command of chief -- the person who got us into this war that at first was about WMD, then it was about terrorism, then it was about democracy. And they called Kerry flipflopper?

And if someone bring up 9/11 again when talking about Iraq I'm going to sock them.
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Last edited by maestrowork; 03-30-2007 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:59 AM   #50
Jersey Chick
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Originally Posted by Mustangpilot View Post
You will never know fear until you have lived under a murderous, totolitarian regime such as the one led by Sadam. I'm not surprised you don't feel safer. Under it all you have come to believe that your government has become impotent to protect you. I suspect you know why this is but you wont say it because it's not politically correct and, God help us, we live in a politicaly correct world. So you will continue to place yourself on the sacrificial alter in order not to appear foolish to your peers.

I'm sorry to pick on you and please understand I am using you as the generic person. Please educate yourself. Stop listening to the T.V. soundbites, the bumper sticker idiocy that passes for intelligent conversation. Stay away from the lemmings marching toward the cliff.
You know, any time someone voices an opposition to the war, it's because they watch tv. Or read the newspaper. It can't possibly because we are (insert gasp here) thinking for ourselves. Where do you get your information from, then? I listen to left and right wing - and form my own opinions. I don't care what Sean Penn thinks, nor do I care what Sean Hannity thinks. I think this war is illegal, immoral, and a gigantic mess.

I totally supported Bush in the days following 9/11. I thought he was on the right path. But you know what? I have a HUGE problem when my president lies to me. And I have a bigger problem when he tells me how dare I question him. How dare I exercise my freedom of speech to ask a question. And to be called unpatriotic, or dangerous, is an insult to the very men and women who have died to defend our way of life.

He has used the terror of September 11 to force his agenda. He used one of (if not the) blackest day in the history of this country to silence anyone who questions. To keep from asking questions that he doesn't have the answers to.

Why don't I feel safer? Why should I? The middle east hates us now as much as ever, if not more. Even the British, who stand beside us without fail, are questioning and trying to find a way out.

I don't care if you are picking on me as a generic, or me in specific, it isn't going to change anything. I still want an end to this and I still think we had no business being there.

Oh, and I still think Bush lied. I wonder how he sleeps at night.
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