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Old 03-27-2007, 04:44 PM   #1
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Bush now views Congress as the enemy

In support of Gonzales' Deputy's refusal to testify:

"It is unfortunate that a public servant no longer feels comfortable that they will be treated fairly in testimony in front of Congress..."

- Dana Perino,
Dep. White House Press Secretary
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Old 03-27-2007, 06:22 PM   #2
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Isn't it scary how history repeats itself?

Now, this is just my opinion, (hee hee) but I think Bush is even more dangerous because he really does seem to think that he is the Supreme ruler...

According to Keith Olbermann, we have 666 more days left (or maybe yesterday was the 666th day - it was late and I was half asleep)... coincidence, though???
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Old 03-27-2007, 06:51 PM   #3
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Watching some of the various hearings in Congress, I think there is actually something to be said for Perino's remarks. In the Plame hearings, witnesses were cut off in mid sentence if their answer wasn't what the poser wanted, at least once on the basis of "I'm not surrendering my time to you."

Think about that. Sure, politicians are always using these things to make speeches--hell, that's why they get that opening round of pre-hearing comments--and they are always short with hostile witnesses. This is true on both sides of the aisle. But asking a question, not getting the response you expected, then trying to prevent the answer on the basis of protecting your "time"? Under such circumstances, what is the point of going before Congress, unless you're telling them exactly what they want to hear? It's not like they're trying to find truth, any truth at all.
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Old 03-27-2007, 06:55 PM   #4
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That happened to Al Gore as well. He was asked a question, and then not given a fair chance to answer. I wanted to slap the guy asking the questions, and yell, "Let him answer, you dolt!" (OK, what I really called him wasn't nearly as nice, but it's too early for swearing.)
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Old 03-27-2007, 06:56 PM   #5
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If you are getting the run around, you shut it down and demand a real answer.
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Old 03-27-2007, 07:02 PM   #6
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That happened to Al Gore as well. He was asked a question, and then not given a fair chance to answer. I wanted to slap the guy asking the questions, and yell, "Let him answer, you dolt!" (OK, what I really called him wasn't nearly as nice, but it's too early for swearing.)
Absolutely. It's not a party thing; it's a systemic thing.

Until these buffoons start behaving, I don't think anyone should have to testify. Unfortunately, they can still issue subpoenas.
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Old 03-27-2007, 07:02 PM   #7
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If you are getting the run around, you shut it down and demand a real answer.
Sure. But that's not what is going on.
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Old 03-27-2007, 09:40 PM   #8
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I really do see a correlation here between Nixon and Bush. It's pretty profound and I'm not sure what it means, but Bush really does have to take care; If he slips at all, he's finished.

Is it the chicken or the egg? Bush got us into an idiotic war; Nixon prolonged one. I was always convinced that had Nixon ended Vietnam as he said he would, he would've ended his term in dignity. But eventually he was despised, and that emotion swept the country. He was toppled.
Your rememberance of history is different than mine. Nixon ended the Nam thing. He just declared victory and bugged out. As a result over a half million vietnamese civilians were slaughtered by the commies.

The reason for getting into Iraq was supported by congress. The intel about WMD was seen by the appropriate congressional committees and all agreed with the decision. Ex-president Clinton and his cabinett also agreed with the assessment as did most of the EU leaders.



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Old 03-27-2007, 09:45 PM   #9
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Absolutely. It's not a party thing; it's a systemic thing.

Until these buffoons start behaving, I don't think anyone should have to testify. Unfortunately, they can still issue subpoenas.
Fortunately, they can still issue subpoenas.

What about Tony Snowe? Going in for surgery, or something else?
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Old 03-27-2007, 10:00 PM   #10
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However, the biggest culprit of all is the left, the liberal, marxist, democrats who have used the war and the death of our soldiers to further their political interests. They have no shame and will lie, cheat, steal and committ any perversion to further their self centered interests.

Phew! excuse the rant. I'm a bit upset after hearing about Tony Snow.
The right wingers aren't entirely blameless, either. They are also spinning, lying, what have you all in the name of protecting us from "the terrorists." Every time I hear one of them claim that we're winning the "War on Terror" I roll my eyes. Remember Bush's landing on the air craft carrier to declare mission accomplished? If the mission was accomplished, why are we still there? What, exactly, have we accomplished?

Don't get me wrong - I have no quarrel with the soldiers - I have two cousins who are over there, one if Afghanistan and the other in Iraq. But to say only the left is to blame is to do them a serious injustice. The left didn't send them over there and the left isn't keeping them there. We're in this and there was no exit strategy in place, so now they have to scramble to come up with something. I think the president honestly thought it would be Gulf War II, with soldiers surrendering as quickly as they could.
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Old 03-27-2007, 10:34 PM   #11
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However, the biggest culprit of all is the left, the liberal, marxist, democrats who have used the war and the death of our soldiers to further their political interests.
You're forgetting that Bush scheduled a vote on the Iraq invasion in 2002 for the very reason to further his party's political ambitions.
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Old 03-27-2007, 10:58 PM   #12
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Your rememberance of history is different than mine.

.
Most people's are.

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Old 03-27-2007, 11:03 PM   #13
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I think the president honestly thought it would be Gulf War II, with soldiers surrendering as quickly as they could.
Not much question about this, is there? At the very least (and this point has been made by a spectrum of experienced military leaders now), the Bush team utterly failed to have a Plan B, or even to recognize that they might need one. They were sequential thinkers, never making mistakes, so they never needed anything other than the current plan. That mindset became further restricted by their attitude that any level of disagreement was disloyalty, treason even (that word did get used, by the way). Thus, the best original Bush advisor, Colin Powell, was marginalized and eventually obliged to resign.

So now we have Plan XVII, or some such number, nicknamed The Surge. Does anybody here believe they have considered the options for what happens if that doesn't work?

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Old 03-27-2007, 11:06 PM   #14
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Guess it's a damn good thing Abe won his war.
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:13 PM   #15
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Remember Bush's landing on the air craft carrier to declare mission accomplished?
I remember that. We did accomplish the mission we set out for. To remove Saddam. That went quickly and easily. Just like you're trying to say it didn't. (How typical, distort the truth to make a dimocratic point.)

They did not tell us (I think they knew) that there would be a vacuum there and that the terrorists would try to fill it. Which they have. Hence we have a new mission. To keep Iran and/or Al Qaeda from using Iraq to set up their Caliphate.

After all, OBL himself claimed Iraq is going to be the center for their take-over of the world with their distorted view of "peace" and the promotion of Jihad against Western Civilization.
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:55 PM   #16
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I remember that. We did accomplish the mission we set out for. To remove Saddam. That went quickly and easily. Just like you're trying to say it didn't. (How typical, distort the truth to make a dimocratic point.)

They did not tell us (I think they knew) that there would be a vacuum there and that the terrorists would try to fill it. Which they have. Hence we have a new mission. To keep Iran and/or Al Qaeda from using Iraq to set up their Caliphate.

After all, OBL himself claimed Iraq is going to be the center for their take-over of the world with their distorted view of "peace" and the promotion of Jihad against Western Civilization.
Um... just for the record, I'm not a dimocrat and I really resent the implication that I'd have to be - why resort to name calling? That's childish. Besides, I thought our reason was WMD?? Where are they? And again - if the mission was accomplished, why are we still there? And for the record, Saddam Hussein hated Al Qaeda, and from what I've read, he hated them more than he hated the US. And I never said that taking out Hussein didn't go quickly, so don't spin my words either. Frankly, I thought the whole basis was that funny little matter that Hussein had WMD. Oddly enough, no one can seem to find them...

Actually, wasn't the whole reason Al Qaeda in the first place? Didn't they attack us? The whole notion of a war on terror is foolish at best - you can't reason with insanity and you can't fight an ideal. It's two different mindsets.

This action has caused Iraq to plummet into civil war. I'd say if that was the president's objective, then yes - mission accomplished. If not, I'd say he really needs to spend less time in Crawford and more time trying to figure out how to get us out of the mess he created.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:11 AM   #17
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Um... just for the record, I'm not a dimocrat and I really resent the implication that I'd have to be - why resort to name calling? That's childish. Besides, I thought our reason was WMD?? Where are they? And again - if the mission was accomplished, why are we still there? And for the record, Saddam Hussein hated Al Qaeda, and from what I've read, he hated them more than he hated the US. And I never said that taking out Hussein didn't go quickly, so don't spin my words either. Frankly, I thought the whole basis was that funny little matter that Hussein had WMD. Oddly enough, no one can seem to find them...

Actually, wasn't the whole reason Al Qaeda in the first place? Didn't they attack us? The whole notion of a war on terror is foolish at best - you can't reason with insanity and you can't fight an ideal. It's two different mindsets.

This action has caused Iraq to plummet into civil war. I'd say if that was the president's objective, then yes - mission accomplished. If not, I'd say he really needs to spend less time in Crawford and more time trying to figure out how to get us out of the mess he created.
Reading and comprehension are key. I did not call you a dimocrat. I said you were trying to make a dimocratic point. There's a difference.

Do try to keep up.

Like I said, which you failed miserably to comprehend, we're there for a different reason than what we went for in the first place. Typical dimocratic talking points that have no basis on the conversation. "Where's the WMD?" "Saddam didn't attack us." blah blah blah.

Talk about spin. WMD was but one of 17 reasons. Something (nearly) the entire world believed, and Saddam himself claimed. And no, Saddam didn't attack us. He attacked his own. He also threatened the use of WMD.

Whether he had them or not is besides the point, because it's after the fact and we had no way of knowing because he routinely refused to let anyone see, (after he claimed he still had them.)

In case I didn't make it perfectly clear for you, we're in Iraq (now) to fight terrorists. Terrorists that want to kill you. Terrorists that want to use Iraq as a base of operations to kill you.

As for the war on terror being foolish. I agree. You can't have a war on terror. It's like having a war on blitzkrieg. We are in a war of the defense of Western Civilization. Defense against radical Islamic Muslims (RIMs) that want nothing more than to see you dead, (or converted to Islam). A war that was declared on us a long time ago, but we ignored and let fester into what it is now.

It's a global war. Look around you. See how many instances EVERY DAY are taking place where RIMs are attacking Western culture, attacking women, attacking (and using) children.

Is that ok with you?

BTW, do you have any idea what Sharia Law is and how it would affect YOU as a female? You'd be nothing more than a pet. Property. Something to be commanded, raped, and killed if you spoke against your 'man' or committed adultery or defied him in any way.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:18 AM   #18
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Here, in case all you see is CNN, is a sample of what has happened just in the last few days...

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_New...-072652-4392r/
9 Children Machine-Gunned to Death by Islamic Terrorists...

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...uns-killed.php
Two Elderly Nuns Stabbed to Death...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_....php?id=117665
Saudi Court Sentences Woman to 60 Lashes for 'Running Away'...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...70&ito=newsnow
UK Extremists Encourage Violence against Women...

http://www.thedailystar.net/2007/03/23/d70323013321.htm
Bangladeshi Woman Tortured, Murdered for Refusing Marriage

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/...im-threat.html
Canadian Moderates Threatened with 'Slaughter'...

Sharia Law would have killed you for what you've said on this board.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:29 AM   #19
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One more thing, most of the violence inside Iraq is not from your mis-informed analogy of a "civil war". It's Sunnis and Shia's from outside the country trying to take it over. If we leave, you can expect the same thing that happened in Vietnam after we left, only worse. (1/2 million people slaughtered).

You ok with that?
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:35 AM   #20
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Why do I keep thinking "Archie Bunker"?
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:37 AM   #21
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Why do I keep thinking "Archie Bunker"?
Perhaps your brain is clouded. Perhaps you've got a big 'ol donkey dick on your mind. Perhaps you need to get laid. Perhaps your girl-friend's frisbee sized pissflaps are covering your ears so you can't hear what's going on. Perhaps you missed the "radical" part of my posts. (So as not to lump Muslims with Radical Muslims)

The possibilities are endless.

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Old 03-28-2007, 12:40 AM   #22
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ok - you know what - fine. You win. You shouted the loudest. You can be the most sarcastic. You can gloat and wave your little hands around. Whatever. I really don't give a damn. All I know is we didn't care what Hussein did - we armed him. Remember Iran Contra? Hussein gassed his own people in the late eighties and we did nothing. Nope. Nada. Zilch. Zippo. Nothing. Women have been treated that way in that culture forever. And we did nothing. Nope. Nada. Zilch. Zippo.

And to say the terrorists want to kill me is the same tag line the president uses to justify taking away our rights and trying to scare us into silencing any questions regarding that nightmare. All in the name to protect us. Well, guess what, those terrorists want to kill me because of his actions and policies.

And you know what else? You can be as snide as you want, but I will still believe that this war is wrong. WRONG. And I will still want our troops to come home.

Did you keep up with that?
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:51 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Jersey Chick View Post
ok - you know what - fine. You win. You shouted the loudest. You can be the most sarcastic. You can gloat and wave your little hands around. Whatever. I really don't give a damn. All I know is we didn't care what Hussein did - we armed him. Remember Iran Contra? Hussein gassed his own people in the late eighties and we did nothing. Nope. Nada. Zilch. Zippo. Nothing. Women have been treated that way in that culture forever. And we did nothing. Nope. Nada. Zilch. Zippo.

And to say the terrorists want to kill me is the same tag line the president uses to justify taking away our rights and trying to scare us into silencing any questions regarding that nightmare. All in the name to protect us. Well, guess what, those terrorists want to kill me because of his actions and policies.

And you know what else? You can be as snide as you want, but I will still believe that this war is wrong. WRONG. And I will still want our troops to come home.

Did you keep up with that?
It's not about shouting the loudest. It's about the facts. Instead of saying I shouted, why don't you refute what I've said. Honestly try to refute it. Prove me wrong. Can you? I'd love to be wrong about where we're headed.

Yeah, we armed him, then we disarmed him. So what? Not the first time, probably won't be the last. Some times you have to take the lesser of two evils. Sad fact of life.

Do you think the terrorists wouldn't kill you in an instant? Honestly? Did you read any of the links I posted? I don't like what bush is trying to do with our rights either. There's better ways to fight this. But we do have to fight it.

And don't blame bush for something terrorists have been wanting to do (and in fact doing) for decades. It's not all bush's fault. But then that's another of those dimocratic talking points you can't seem to let go of.

I believe the war we're fighting against Iran and Al Qeada are valid. (Yes, we're fighting Iran via proxy) I'm sorry it's happening in Iraq, but that's not up to us. We could let them have it. But guess what will happen in 5 or 10 years? We'll be in even more trouble with these fanatics.

Last edited by Rekd; 03-28-2007 at 12:57 AM.
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Old 03-28-2007, 01:03 AM   #24
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This issue would be so much clearer if Bush were receiving oral in the oval...
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Old 03-28-2007, 01:08 AM   #25
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I did refute. I pointed out that those very same things had been going on for years and we stood back and did nothing. NOW they are rallying points. Sorry. No dice. Man's inhumanity to man has been going on forever. That is nothing new.

And I'm sick of hearing about dimocrats. That's no better than Bush (and yes, he did say it) saying if you question our actions, you aren't patriotic. Nonsense. Just because someone might not agree with your point of view doesn't make them (or their viewpoint, or anyone who might disagree with you) a dimocrat, or having dimocratic thoughts. It's schoolyard namecalling, only the subject is different. Hope it makes you feel better.
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