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Old 03-25-2005, 08:45 PM   #12551
Kevin Yarbrough
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolan
PA told me that they do not keep any records that would show any book sales, except for numbers on a piece of paper, just like the royalty statement that they sent me. Well gee, I guess they have the freedom to do that. They also said that I can not have an accountant examine my own records.
But I thought their contract says they keep "accurate" figures? Hmmm, is the peice of paper a dirty napkin by chance? Or is it the the cover page to Atlanta Nights? Maybe it's writen down in the bathroom on the wall next to Meiners home phone number. Cause you know, he would have to write it down somewhere he goes quite a bit or he might forget it. And I know if I had 30 cute little editors running around I might spend a lot of time in said bathroom.

Guess they would be in trouble if the author who wants to examine the books so happens to be an accountant. If you can't have one with you then why do they need the seven days before hands? Maybe they have to dig through the dirty napkins or get Meiners out of the bathroom in order to find out where your info is writen down at.
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:52 PM   #12552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald
Anti-PA posts in guestbooks and "reviews" on Amazon always play into Larry, Miranda, and Willem's hands.

Don't think that Larry, Willem, and Miranda don't know it, either. (Remember that Willem claims to have been some kind of psychologist.)
Jim, Clopper said that he took a class on publishing and now he is a publisher. I took four psych classes so does that make me a psychologist? God, I hope so. I could then start treating patients, stealing their money for services I said I did but didn't, and then scold them for asking abou it. Cause you know I wouldn't have to answer any questions from people, Doctor- Patient confidentiality and all.
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:15 PM   #12553
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You guys want to see what we had to go through to get food at the convention? Go here.

http://www.publishamerica.com/conven...l/DSC05914.htm

There were two of those for pasta, rolls, etc. and one for meat. We had about 300 people there, remember?

And look at this table of Deflectors.

http://www.publishamerica.com/conven...l/DSC05900.htm

See our girl Dianna to the right and Lynn Price on her left?

And since the free Clinic hasn't had any patients in awhile here is a new pic.
http://www.publishamerica.com/conven...l/DSC06060.htm

I can just see the bubble above Clopper's head. "We just made a fortune on this. We are just so damn good."

Bubble above Meiners. "Brilliant!!"
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:16 PM   #12554
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PA

I sent a letter to Ingramís telling them that I wanted my book removed from Amazon, them, etc and Pa intercepted it. This is just part of the letter but Pa is so stupid that they donít even know who the Vice-President of the B&N company is. Note the message about the local manager. They still have ignored me about doing a three way call with B&N because they know they are lying and plus they know that they donít have a clue who runs B&N. Uncle Jim thanks for the info on FTC. I just emailed them my complaint.
(Me) I am sending you a copy of my letter from B&N and a
copy of a post by publishamerica which verifies just
some of the deception.
(Pa) No, you have not shown any deception by anyone at all. What you have shown is a misconception by a local Barnes and Noble manager, who is unaware of the fact that they are PublishAmerica's largest customer.
PublishAmerica Author Support
I replied back: Would you like to do a three way call with B&N because you all obviously donít know what the hell your talking about! This is the 5th time I have asked them to do a three-way call with me. Cowards!
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:27 PM   #12555
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Originally Posted by Dolan
When the cult is served up, what does one get as side-dishes?
Related sub-cults and spin-offs, like vanity agents and vanity radio.
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:28 PM   #12556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T42
(Pa) No, you have not shown any deception by anyone at all. What you have shown is a misconception by a local Barnes and Noble manager, who is unaware of the fact that they are PublishAmerica's largest customer.
PublishAmerica Author Support
You should email them back and say. "So _______ isn't the right guy? He is a local manager? God, somebody should tell him that then. I'm sure his pay is more than what it should be. You know what? I will email _________ back and let him know that you said he was a local manager then and copy your email for him to read. I mean, if you say he is just a local manager, then he must be. Thanks for pointing that out to me, it was just BRILLIANT!!"
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:32 PM   #12557
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What they are now responding to me?

Ha, Pa has ignored me for weeks now and suddenly I'm getting all these responses. I just sent my response a few minutes ago...sorry for the length on this..."basic letter".
Dear Ms. McDermott,

Yes, we do know exactly what Barnes and Noble buys from us. It is your
contact who is uninformed. Last week Barnes and Noble placed 235 orders for
530 books, including 12 that were apparently for stocking or events. The
week prior Barnes and Noble placed 193 orders for 475 books, including 6
that were apparently for stock or events. And again, please see the
testimonials on our site for further proof of this.

Contrary to what you were told, bookstores stock our books all the time. In
2004, Barnes and Noble alone purchased more than 30,000 books from us,
making it our largest customer, and Borders and Books-a-Million were our
second and third largest customers. Each day, bookstores order a
PublishAmerica book more than 300 times on average. The fact that those
particular bookstores decided not to stock your particular book does not
change this. Bookstores stock our books all the time.

No publisher guarantees book sales to bookstores. Major chain bookstores
have no policy against stocking non-returnable books. Actually, Barnes and
Noble has quadrupled the number of books they order from PublishAmerica
during the past year, as can be seen by all the stories and reports on the
message board from hundreds of authors whose books are stocked.

For bookstores to stock all books published would mean adding 15 feet of
new shelf space every day. Therefore bookstore managers must be selective,
so they decide based on what that they think will sell. If they do think it
will sell, they will stock it, and vice versa. So, if your book is romance
and the store's shelves are overflowing with romance novels, the odds are
they won't stock it. And, if your book is a history of agriculture in
Tupelo County, Mississippi, the bookstore manager in Seattle may feel the
same way.

Every bookstore will carry a book that they think will sell, regardless of
whether it is returnable or not, regardless of whether it is printed on
digital or offset presses.

Please do not judge a bookstore's corporate policy by what one local
manager or one letter tells you. You can find stories on our website about,
for example, two Borders locations in one town: one manager insists that he
cannot carry a book, the other orders 40 copies. Bookstore managers are
human, they have strengths and weaknesses like all of us, they can make
good judgment calls and bad ones. One will like your book, the other may not.
My Response:
You all need to get your facts straight! This is NOT a local B&N
manager. This is a letter sent to me from the Main Office and I have
been sending them every letter you all send with the misinformation
you give and I am looking forward to hearing from them on your
knowledge of who is in charge of B&N. This "basic" letter you all
send to everyone is getting really old!
Memory McDermott

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:19:18 -0500, PublishAmerica Author Support
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:36 PM   #12558
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Yes Uncle Jim. I think it's time to repost

Dear Memory McDermott,
Your letter to Mary Ellen Keating was forwarded to me for a response as my
department manages the business relationships Barnes & Noble has with new
start up publishers, and self-published authors, like yourself.
All the titles PublishAmerica produces are available to Barnes & Noble
customers either through orders in the stores, or online via Barnes &
Noble.com (www.bn.com). The books are printed (on demand) when they are
ordered, and shipped to the customer's home or back to the store for
customer pick up. The terms for Publish America titles are not competitive
in the trade bookstore marketplace: the books are non-returnable, the
discount is not favorable, and most of the titles including Tea for Two
Nature's Apothecary are about $5.00 over the going price for titles in the
category. These factors in combination inform our decision not to stock the
titles in the stores, and for the stores to decide not to do an event with
the titles.
I hope this information is helpful.
Marcella A Smith
Director Small Press & Vendor Relations
Barnes & Noble, Inc
122 Fifth Avenue
New York, NY 10011
212-633-3454
212-463-5677 fax
MSmithx@bn.com
Originally Posted by Infocenter at PublishAmerica
A Vice President at Barnes and Noble wrote us a letter, saying, "We very much believe in print-on-demand (POD) technology as a cost-effective tool available for publishers to extend the range of their title offerings to Barnes & Noble... We believe that POD represents an opportunity to increase the range of titles we offer... We will continue to stock every title that you publish, which enables us to rapidly replenish our stores..."


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Last edited by T42; 03-25-2005 at 09:42 PM. Reason: Sorry didn't mean to have it take up so much space:)
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:44 PM   #12559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T42
Last week Barnes and Noble placed 235 orders for
530 books, including 12 that were apparently for stocking or events. The
week prior Barnes and Noble placed 193 orders for 475 books, including 6
that were apparently for stock or events.
So in two weeks BN bought 1,005 books but only 18 were for stocking/events purposes? So 987 were special orders? Just how many of those 18 were for actual stock? 1? 2? I'm betting no more than 2, the rest would be for signings.

So from those 1,005 books PA made $20,049.75
Authors made $80.40
PA cleared $19,969.35

I need to start my own publishing company. I can be the aquistions and editor, I can hire somebody in my family to do the cover art and answer the nearly 300 phone calls from BN a day. Let's see how much I could make.

$20,049.75 in sales.
- $3,015 for LS
- $640 for employees
_________

$16,394.75 for me in just two weeks
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:53 PM   #12560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Yarbrough
So in two weeks BN bought 1,005 books but only 18 were for stocking/events purposes? So 987 were special orders? Just how many of those 18 were for actual stock? 1? 2? I'm betting no more than 2, the rest would be for signings.

So from those 1,005 books PA made $20,049.75
Authors made $80.40
PA cleared $19,969.35

I need to start my own publishing company. I can be the aquistions and editor, I can hire somebody in my family to do the cover art and answer the nearly 300 phone calls from BN a day. Let's see how much I could make.

$20,049.75 in sales.
- $3,015 for LS
- $640 for employees
_________

$16,394.75 for me in just two weeks
I think it is definitely time the IRS has a look at Pa's books!
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:59 PM   #12561
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I've decided on my next project:

history of agriculture in
Tupelo County, Mississipipi



because it resonates--that's why!
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:02 PM   #12562
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I've heard Meiners called his number just to see if anyone's home after Miranda mentioned that the lights were on, but there was nobody home.
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:08 PM   #12563
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By the way, if anyone has questions or would like PA investigated since we do have in writing the amount of sales compared to what authors make, this is the number. I could not find an email address for fraud but Iím sure we could all keep their lines busy.

If you suspect or know of an individual or company that is not complying with the tax laws, report this activity. Reports of suspected tax fraud can be made by phone, mail or your local IRS walk-in office.

By phone:

You can contact the IRS toll free at 1-800-829-0433.
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:09 PM   #12564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T42
[snip]
Yes, we do know exactly what Barnes and Noble buys from us. It is your contact who is uninformed. Last week Barnes and Noble placed 235 orders for 530 books, including 12 that were apparently for stocking or events. The week prior Barnes and Noble placed 193 orders for 475 books, including 6 that were apparently for stock or events. And again, please see the testimonials on our site for further proof of this.
[snip]
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:19:18 -0500, PublishAmerica Author Support
I snipped it but my comment really is for the whole letter.

I'm so sick of seeing the same tired letter over and over again. You'd think after a couple of years using this same letter for every response they'd at least take the time to come up with something original to be the next 2 years worth of form letters.

For a so-called internet marketing guru, you'd think LC would know better than this. Or is he just too busy counting all the money he's rooked from people to care?
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:12 PM   #12565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassenach
I've decided on my next project:

history of agriculture in
Tupelo County, Mississipipi



because it resonates--that's why!
I'll have my husband co-write it with you if you'd like... as long as you leave his text as is. He can't spell for **** and his grammar is good ole boy Mississipian. Then y'all can send it to PA to be their next big hit.
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:19 PM   #12566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondancer
You'd think after a couple of years using this same letter for every response they'd at least take the time to come up with something original to be the next 2 years worth of form letters.
My personal guess is that if they tried to update their letter, they'd be hard-pressed to come up with anything better. There are only so many ways to spin a train wreck in a positive way...
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:25 PM   #12567
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My My...another response!

Dear Ms. McDermott,

It is a very plain and simple fact that Barnes and Noble bought over 30,000
PublishAmerica books last year.

Last week Barnes and Noble placed 235 orders for 530 books, including 12
that were apparently for stocking or events. The week prior Barnes and
Noble placed 193 orders for 475 books, including 6 that were apparently for
stock or events. And again, please see the testimonials on our site for
further proof of this.

If there is an issue that is still not clear, please let us know what it is.

my response:
Okay, then if this is the facts then you won't mind if I ask the IRS
to check into this claim. Maybe they can get to the bottom of it and
find out where the contradiction is...the authors, B&N or yourselves!

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:44:30 -0500, PublishAmerica Author Support
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:31 PM   #12568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T42
Yes, we do know exactly what Barnes and Noble buys from us. It is your
contact who is uninformed. Last week Barnes and Noble placed 235 orders for
530 books, including 12 that were apparently for stocking or events. The
week prior Barnes and Noble placed 193 orders for 475 books, including 6
that were apparently for stock or events. And again, please see the
testimonials on our site for further proof of this.
Okay, let's look at this.

B&N has 663 stores, plus 176 B. Dalton stores, plus BN.com.

That's 840 stores.

Last week (assuming PA is telling the truth), B&N ordered 2.26 books per order. The previous week their orders were 2.46 books per order. (That's counting those six- and twelve-book group orders. One half of one percent of those orders are for stocking or events (or the author following PA's advice and ordering multiple copies himself through B&N)).

Two books per order. Mom and Dad?

Anyway ... 1005 over two weeks, or 502.5 books per week, or (and this gets iffy, extrapolating out from such a small sample) 26,130 books per year. (That fits in well with the 30,000 books per year PA has claimed BN orders every year -- they round up, I bet.)

26,130 books divided by 840 stores is 31.1 books per store.

That's around one book every two weeks. But your average order is between two and three books. Therefore, each B&N store orders from PA once a month -- or less.

Let's see some more...

Right now PA has about 8,500 books in print. Those orders work out to about three copies per title per year, for all of B&N.

We know that the average order is for between two and three copies.

So ... we can expect, on average, each PublishAmerica title gets one order per year, from all of B&N.

And B&N is PublishAmerica's largest customer!
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:32 PM   #12569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T42
Contrary to what you were told, bookstores stock our books all the time. In
2004, Barnes and Noble alone purchased more than 30,000 books from us,
making it our largest customer, and Borders and Books-a-Million were our
second and third largest customers.
As usual, PA assumes that those receiving these cannot do math.

30,000 books / 10,000 happy authors = 3 books per author for ALL B&N stores. Those three books are divided among 840 B&N stores. Most likely the distribution is highest in stores in the author's home town, followed by B&Ns near where relatives live.

Now, the author number includes authors whose books came out in other years, so let's give them the benefit of a doubt. PA is putting out about 80 books a week, according to their new releases pages.

80 books/ week X 52 weeks = 4162 books per year

30,000 books / 4162 books per year = 7.2 books ordered. B&N stores distribute these seven books in their 840 stores.

Numbers that low are certainly special orders by acquaintences of the author.

Quote:
Each day, bookstores order a
PublishAmerica book more than 300 times on average.
300 x 365 = 109,500

109,500 books orders divided by 4162 books published by PA a year = 26 copies of each book gets ordered by bookstores.

No matter how much PA tries to fudge the issue, their own numbers show they are terrible at getting books into bookstores.
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:52 PM   #12570
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Dang, I mention the IRS and they start ignoring me again. Well, that gives me time to get off the puter and make a call to Maryland.
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:55 PM   #12571
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Maybe if someone presented these calculations to PA in a complaint letter, they would have to come up with a new form letter?
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Old 03-25-2005, 11:04 PM   #12572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintl
Maybe if someone presented these calculations to PA in a complaint letter, they would have to come up with a new form letter?
I doubt it. The old one works well enough except for those of us who are sick of seeing it. I wonder how many of you have gotten the same one in response to different emails.
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Old 03-25-2005, 11:06 PM   #12573
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Why my conclusions and Chuck's conclusions don't exactly match....

We're working with some slightly different sets of assumptions.

Chuck is assuming that PA's books' sales will come in their first year of release, so is only looking at the number of books released in one year.

I'm going with the "Print/Publish On Demand books don't go out of print and have an equal chance of selling throughout their lives" model, so I'm counting all PA books -- about twice the number of titles.

Chuck is assuming 30K sales through B&N per year, based on PA's statement. I'm assuming a smaller number of sales, 26K, extrapolating from the only hard numbers we've been given, and guessing that PA's put the happiest face they can on their facts without lying too much.

Regardless ... whether it's 3 copies per year or 7 copies per year that B&N orders of an average PA book ... it's pathetic. Split the difference and it's 5 copies of each title, spread out over 840 stores.

(What would a typical midlist author with a real publisher expect? They'd expect to be stocked on the shelves in about half of the stores, and they'd expect the average order to be five copies. That's 2,100 copies ordered, not 3, 5, or 7.)
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Old 03-25-2005, 11:07 PM   #12574
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Sparhawk, you little dickens. That was you who ticked off my PA pal and her dog. She once begged HB to order PA to ban me, forever.

She and her dog want to set up a method, whereby posters can vote certain people off the boards, without having to wait for PA. I like that idea.
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Old 03-25-2005, 11:07 PM   #12575
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Mississippi

For the record, there is NO Tupelo County in Mississippi. I was born in Mississippi and still live here. I'm down south and not close to Tupelo but
know people there.

My book is about Mississippi. Tupelo is a city in Mississippi but it is in Lee County.

If anyone writes about Tupelo, let me know I know the guy over the libraries and on the board. Joyce and I had a book signing there. She went, I didn't.



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