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Old 07-02-2004, 09:17 AM   #926
DaveKuzminski
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Re: writer's digest

Someone appears to have forgotten something.

Betty, are the rules still in effect or not?
 
Old 07-02-2004, 09:36 AM   #927
SimonSays
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general tips for avoiding scams.

Dave -

I have to admit I was quite disappointed that Jenna set-up a general tips on avoiding scam board, specifically requested in one of the first paragraphs that you (along with James, Victoria et. al.) contribute to the board - and all you did was comment on the postcard idea in the article Jenna posted, pushed for the inclusion of the P&E logo on such postcards, and promoted the P&E tchokes at cafe press.

I was actually hoping you would contribute more substitive information. Maybe things that could actually help people avoid being taken in by the scammers.

I humbly request that you do so now.

Thank you,
Simon
 
Old 07-02-2004, 01:48 PM   #928
Ed Williams 3
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Yeah, either bounce the post from DJ....

....or let Dave respond in kind. I hope everyone here sees who launched yet another attack, and who can't seem to let this go. In fact, my vote would be to ban him from this board period, as enough is enough, and some of his "dialogue" is so incredibly mean spirited and hateful that there can be no doubt as to what his true intentions are. He elevates being a PA hack to a new level, and offers nothing to this board's denizens except the occasional venomous attack on one of our regulars. I am very much starting to understand why DJ is "published" by the likes of PA.

If DJ is banned, at least maybe a new PA shill would be sent here to enter the debate, one with a new, more interesting approach, perhaps?
 
Old 07-02-2004, 06:56 PM   #929
DaveKuzminski
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Contributing ideas?

SimonSays, offering ideas is not like turning a spigot on and off. Jenna's contribution was excellent. At that point, I could only compliment her on posting one idea that hadn't occurred to me even though it's an idea that will work only for a few authors. After all, how many authors will take the time to help another author in such a situation?

At the same time, I felt I was contributing something by hinting that a postcard bearing the name of a writing site might give the request a bit more weight. That is why I suggested also that Jenna get a CafePress store. If she similarly makes available a pithy comment with her Absolute Write logo on the back of a postcard, that might also figure into the payer's decision on whether to pay even if only a few such postcards are received. However, I didn't feel I needed to go into this much detail when suggesting it.

While I think that the idea of a "general tips on scams" topic is nice, it's the type of material that needs more organization with an appropriate menu so that writers can find exactly what they need to learn about in the least amount of time. If you're looking for agency scams, you want to get to those immediately. Not later after wading through failure to pay and any other topics that warrant similar tips. In other words, a potentially lengthy topic with no organization is not the best way to get that kind of information across. Writers will not want to dig through what may become pages and pages of unmenued information.

As well, I have my own site to operate and contribute information to. At Jenna's, I'm merely a participant in the forum because it offers one of the better opportunities for two-way communication.

By the way, what are "tchokes"?
 
Old 07-02-2004, 07:16 PM   #930
emeraldcite
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Re: general tips for avoiding scams.

Quote:
While I think that the idea of a "general tips on scams" topic is nice, it's the type of material that needs more organization with an appropriate menu so that writers can find exactly what they need to learn about in the least amount of time. If you're looking for agency scams, you want to get to those immediately. Not later after wading through failure to pay and any other topics that warrant similar tips. In other words, a potentially lengthy topic with no organization is not the best way to get that kind of information across. Writers will not want to dig through what may become pages and pages of unmenued information
I was doing something like this in the novels section. I was going through and organizing links to different sections of the board. Then the ezboard system went down, and they changed the web addy for absolutewrite, which screwed up all my links.

Then it struck me that even if I got all the material organized and on the web, if they did that again, it would render the FAQ section in Novels useless.
 
Old 07-02-2004, 07:58 PM   #931
sfsassenach
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Re: Contributing ideas?

Quote:
By the way, what are "tchokes"?
Yiddish for "knickknacks."
 
Old 07-02-2004, 08:35 PM   #932
DaveKuzminski
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Ahhh!

Well, at least I now know that it's not how you strangle a tzar.
 
Old 07-02-2004, 09:20 PM   #933
AC Crispin
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PA and Canada James

The last thing I read from Canada James had him saying that he was quite satisfied with his PA book.

I doubt he's changed his tune. Or, if he did think otherwise nowadays, it would take a very brave man to admit it, after he defended PA tooth and nail before his book was released.

I hope that now that PA has dropped their option clause that James can get a commercial publisher for his next book, though.

No matter how many people sing the praises of PA, I have seen only a handful who, after their PA book is actually released, continue to insist that PA publication is to be preferred over publication by a commercial house.

-Ann C. Crispin
 
Old 07-02-2004, 10:14 PM   #934
aka eraser
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Re: DJ

Banning should be a very last resort. I'd prefer to see Dave take the high road and just not respond to DJ's latest salvo. It will fade into obscurity as this thread inevitably expands.

If DJ continues then we'll have to consider removing posts and/or other steps.
 
Old 07-02-2004, 11:06 PM   #935
DaveKuzminski
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Remove posts? Ban?

aka eraser, I know you're well intentioned, but some things cannot be ignored. To do so would be to invite those who do not know better to believe a falsehood. Even worse, it encourages those who spread such statements into spouting even worse. Consequently, if you have a reputation that's worth defending, then failure to do so will lose it because your critics will throw all the mud possible until something sticks or is not refuted so that they can then state to others that everything they stated must be true since their last attack wasn't defended against because it was true.

Personally, I agree with you in that I don't want to see anyone banned from this board. Nor do I want to have their remarks stricken, though I must admit there are some instances where clearly hate-filled remarks, that are typically posted by juveniles, should be removed. One does not need a topic where message after message consists of a four-letter expletive followed by the identification of some group or individual. Beyond that, I feel that individuals should be free to state their positions and how they feel regarding various issues.
 
Old 07-02-2004, 11:19 PM   #936
CWGranny
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Oh, in that case...

Since all Dave asked was that the points be answered and he isn't supposed to answer them, I got a minute...

* Do you conduct smear campaigns against those who defend you when libeled as a pornographer?
No he didn't -- he never smeared anyone and certainly not anyone who defended him.

* Do you smear others when their opinions or experiences don't match your own?
Uh...that was covered in number one. However, as I remember drawing on my memory of the past...there was a slap fight going on between Dave and some young'un here for a while. I believe both boys gave about as good as they got. They got pink cheeks but probably not much smearing. They sure got all worked up, though.

* Do you ask for private, personal information and then claim you owe them no privacy unless they deserve it *in your opinion*?
I ain't never seen this happen but I think we oughta put this one on the tips list -- "don't give out your private information if you want it to stay private" -- you know, I knew a little ol' gal like that one time. She told her private business to everyone who didn't have the sense to run off first. Then she complained that people were talking about her. Duh. I wonder how that happened.

Gran
 
Old 07-03-2004, 04:07 AM   #937
Deejay816
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Robert Bly

I am still trying to figure out why Robert Bly would sign with PA (according to the message board, he has done just that). He is a well-known poet and I've taught some of his anti-Vietnam poetry in literature classes. I wonder what they offered him to get him to sign?

Deej
 
Old 07-03-2004, 05:30 AM   #938
SimonSays
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Are you people for real?

Wow, emerald what a sad philosophy. "Why even bother doing it at all, since the board may someday at sometime go down?"

Just imagine if the whole world thought the way you do. "Why bother developing an antibiotic for this bacteria? Eventually the germs will become immune and it will no longer be effective."

"Why bother learning this computer program? In a few years it will be obsolete."

And Dave as for your excuses - if you had posted TIPS instead of website plugs your input would have been right at the top of the board under Jenna's - no need to wade through the muck to get to it.

Yet I can see how it is a far better use of your time and talents to participate on these boards by engaging in childish arguments with the PA defenders.

Do you honestly believe that people who are researching PA are reading every post on these threads - riveted to every tit and tat to help them draw a logical conclusion about PA? I would think they would only get MORE confused, because it is not just the PA defenders who come across as fanatical - and therefore you risk losing your credibility. To be honest, if I hadn't known of P&E before I ever found this site, and the only things I knew about you were based on these posts, I would probably think you were some kind of a nut.
 
Old 07-03-2004, 05:58 AM   #939
DaveKuzminski
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Re: Are you people for real?

The world does not operate according to either of our wishes. I can do only what I believe is best. I have no apologies to make to you for following my own course rather than the one you appear to believe I should take.

Now what are you doing to make things better?
 
Old 07-03-2004, 06:08 AM   #940
FM St George
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Re: Robert Bly

I'm of the opinion that they've offered him a small advance and the promise of exposure; or even stock in the company.

let's just say that he does his reputation a GREAT disservice being in the company of those at PublishAmerica...

:P
 
Old 07-03-2004, 06:23 AM   #941
CaoPaux
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Re: Robert Bly

Anyone brave enough to email him and ask? Or shall we flip a coin?
 
Old 07-03-2004, 06:55 AM   #942
Nameless65
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Re: Are you people for real?

What I don’t understand is why he’d want to given how difficult it is to get PA's books into places like B&N and Borders. And it’s not like their royalties are that great either – 8% to 12%? For a published author? Given all the hassle an author has to put up with they should be offering 50%. Whatever deal he got, I think PA is the one that really benefits.
 
Old 07-03-2004, 07:11 AM   #943
SimonSays
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Re: are you people for real?

What am I doing to make things better?

Well let's see - I suggested that people go out and learn about how the publshing industry works, so they can greatly reduce or totally end the possibility that they will be taken in by scammers in the future.

I fear that this particular suggestion might have been completely drowned out by the sheer volume of attacks on me for suggesting it.

I listed in several posts some key information about how the industry works, being aware of these things will help avoid scammers.

When I see someone with incorrect information or requesting information - I supply what information I have.

I suggested Jenna start a general tips on avoiding scammers board - so that those with real knowledge could share their tips in one easy-to-find place that would be void of this kind of dialogue. I have not posted on the board yet because I was deferring to the experts, not wanting people to have to wade through my meager offerings to get to the info supplied by the experts.

As for anything else - spreading the word about scammers is not my mission in life. My spare time and energies are devoted to other things, that in my eyes at least are more dire - things like poverty, hunger, illiteracy.

But this is obviously your passion, and I know from personal experience that sometimes we get so mired in our passion and our indignation, that we lose sight of the forest for the trees.

It appears to me that you have done that, so I pointed it out. I think if you look back and assess this dispassionately - you would realize that posting some general tips on that other board would probably be more help to more people than all your posts on this board combined. Because you would be reaching people other than potential or actual PA victims and you would be giving them insight that will warn them off to any number of scam agents or publishers.

You are right, I have no control over whether or not those with knowledge, like yourself choose to share what they know on that board - but at least I tried.
 
Old 07-03-2004, 07:37 AM   #944
vstrauss
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Re: Are you people for real?

>>I am still trying to figure out why Robert Bly would sign with PA (according to the message board, he has done just that).<<

Yeah, this is kinda bizarre. The post suggests he made the contact through his literary agent, which suggests either a teensy fib on PA's part or that his agent is senile.

- Victoria
 
Old 07-03-2004, 07:45 AM   #945
Deejay816
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Victoria

Or both!

I thought it was odd when Jamie Farr signed - even if he isn't really that well-known I thought he (and his wife) could have found a better publisher who could have played on the name recognition a little more. But Bly is a writer - has been for years, and has won at least one national award. It's not as if he has faded into obscurity and is using PA as a way to make a comeback. I honestly hope he is not disappointed but cannot imagine that he won't be.

Deej
 
Old 07-03-2004, 09:39 AM   #946
DaveKuzminski
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Recognized authors and celebrities

I seriously believe that PublishAmerica will burn the fingers of a few celebrities before the word gets around within their circles as to the true nature of the firm they're dealing with. I can understand some celebrities wanting to be published because it looks better on their resumes. It shows that they were doing something between acting jobs even if it didn't pan out and merely helps to keep their name in front of the public.

SimonSays, if I might suggest this to you, I believe you might feel you're accomplishing more if you open your own web page. I'm not suggesting that you quit hanging out here. Only that you open a site where you can organize matters to your liking. The advantage in doing so is that you'll be upping the total number of pages and sites so that new writers will be even more likely to find a friendly port in which to learn.
 
Old 07-03-2004, 01:34 PM   #947
reph
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"Tchokes"

Tchoke? Oh, that. Leo Rosten (The Joys of Yiddish) gives two spellings: tsatske and tchotchke. Not just a knickknack: a toy, a trinket, a misfit, a loose woman, an ineffectual person - and some other meanings.
 
Old 07-03-2004, 07:18 PM   #948
lastr
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PA didn't get the synopsis and title in sync on Farr's book

The spelling of the camel's name is different between the two. I also noted from their message board that they are no longer accepting children's books as well - must have been one of their last ones.

www.publishamerica.com/sh...Search=Yes

Hababy's Christmas Eve
Jamie and Joy Farr
Joy and Jamie Farr decided to put a children’s picture book together when someone asked, “Whatever happened to Jamie’s imaginary camel, Habeeby?” Great idea. Thus the creation of Habeeby and his family
 
Old 07-03-2004, 09:39 PM   #949
priceless1
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I wonder...

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I seriously believe that PublishAmerica will burn the fingers of a few celebrities before the word gets around within their circles as to the true nature of the firm they're dealing with.<hr></blockquote>
I'm not so sure, Dave. I rather think PA will bend over backwards to treat the well-knowns like royalty. It's not a bad move on PA's part. They're looking for legitimcy and respect in the publishing world. It's far easier to grant concessions to a few than clean up their act for all.

I admit to some curiousity with regards to the quality of the editing these bigger names will receive, advances, and a return policy compared to everyone else's.<img border=0 src="http://www.absolutewrite.com/images/Emoterofl5.gif" />
 
Old 07-03-2004, 09:56 PM   #950
SimonSays
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tchokes

Fear not, dear Dave - I was using tchoke solely under it's "knicknack" definition.

If I were to use yiddish to describe you, I would probably say you are a little meshugana - but a mensch.

As for your suggestion that I start my own website - as I said, educating wannabe writers is not my mission - I neither have the time nor the inclination to do so. It is far simpler and less time-consuming to make constructive suggestions to you that will hopefully aid you in your mission.

As for PA and it's name and celebrity authors - I would not be surprised if PA used them as "loss leaders", that is they are willing to lose money on these contracts because they will leverage these contracts to bring in more suckers - uh I mean authors. They may even make good on the promises they make on the website - i.e. market the titles, get them in to brick and mortar stores. They may even offer to let stores return those books - or even more incredibly sell them at a discount. And they may have better luck getting the titles into stores, despite PA's reputation, because of the name recognition - and assumed built-in audience for the authors work. It is a worthwhile investment for PA to do so - and they do appear to be fairly savy business people - they have a business model that makes a lot of money and a contract that appears not so easy to break. So do not be surprised if Jamie Farr's book winds up in a bookstore near you.
 
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