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Old 01-20-2004, 07:56 AM   #41
darbyj
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Re: Thanks, FM

Yeah, that was fast, wasn't it, FM. I think they were waiting for me.

I can't believe they can actually state that their books have the same chance of making it to a book store shelf as any other published book. Were I a newbie reading it, I'd believe it.

Sigh, I don't mind what they do but how they do it...it's just wrong. I don't know how these people sleep at night.

Lisa
 
Old 01-20-2004, 08:45 AM   #42
Dragon Chow
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Re: Thanks, FM

Quote:
A Vice President at Barnes and Noble wrote us a letter recently, saying,

"We very much believe in print-on-demand (POD) technology as a cost-effective tool available for publishers to extend the range of their title offerings to Barnes & Noble... We believe that POD represents an opportunity to increase the range of titles we offer...

We will continue to stock every title that you publish, which enables us to rapidly replenish our stores..."
They've been quoting this "recently" received letter forever. I wonder how recent is "recently"?

DC
 
Old 01-21-2004, 04:28 AM   #43
HBMarcus
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Jeepers!

I had no idea there was so much time in an author's life to spew such nonsense. I would have expected two or three, but now I see there is actually nothing going on in your lives. No publisher prospects beyond paying to have it done. No chance of distribution in the big stores as offered by PA's partnership. Total denial of the fact that traditional publishers watch the movers and shakers at PA.

Would I go with another publisher? If I didn't give PA the first crack or chance to match, what would the new publisher think of me?

Did the thought enter your minds that popping out one book means 'flash in the pan'? You negotiate the contracts for each one after you've proved your worth. If you worked on the greatest novel of all time and it didn't get the recognition you expected, you post here. Otherwise you should be trying to make something of what you worked so hard for. Do your efforts mean so little to you? WOW! That's all kinds of sad to hear.

Look, if you want to dash your dreams, that's your business. People with considerably larger expectations about life are doing well. If you're already well known in the book writing field you can profit from PA. They are quicker at putting a book together. Some have done this already to avoid the two-year slush pile. Some first timers have done so without looking back.

We're happy folks, you're not. Sad day in you-land, huh? Coffee addiction? No! It's called motivation and energy, which suits me quite well. I'm not the one who signs a contract and then complains about it in a way that might hurt my publisher on their own freakin' message board. What did you think would happen?

PA is a new company that is growing really fast. Burning bridges with them was stupid because the door is closing and it may have been as far as your talent could take you. WHOOPS! I don't have to hand anyone my book. People who have read my first book seek out the second one. That's how it's done.

Giving away a guitar at a book signing made it a lot of fun. That incentive sold a lot of books and provided a very cool gift for Christmas they couldn't pick or afford. Working out details like that with local vendors is how it's done. Multi-author signings provide variety to the public. That's just bringing numbers. You have a problem with any of that logic? Oh, I see. Let's just sit around and go: "Hi, it's great big me! Come here to my table and buy my book and I'll sign it for you." Get real.

All I can se here is a lot of people who said: "Oh, i've got the keys to the kingdom, but THIS is in my way! When I run out of THIS I have plenty of THAT to thwart my efforts as well! It's all somebody else's fault! It can't be me! I wrote the dammed thing!" Puuuulease. I'm so tired of hearing two year-old arguements.

Having nothing means nothing. Paying for nothing is stupid. I bought a ninety-nine dollar guitar for slightly above cost and the book sales went far above that cost. It wasn't for me. If I wanted a profit I would have charged the authors for their part in the raffle. If you don't get the point, I can't explain it to you.

Here's the dollars and sense: For the next seven years I have two books that will continue to sell and spread my name. In the meantime I have a lot of other books to release, which will spread the word as well. I'm in it for the long haul. I don't expect a million bucks for my ONE attempt like a freakin' lottery ticket. Traditional and pay publishers can't offer that beyond the next addition.

The idea that this board has even heard of me means I'm doing something right. You follow?
 
Old 01-21-2004, 05:25 AM   #44
astonwest
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Re: Jeepers!

Sigh......

"No publisher prospects beyond paying to have it done."

There are plenty of folks around here who've never paid to have it done...and in fact have gotten multiple-thousands of dollars in advances. Not everyone, of course, but a blanket statement like that defies all logic.

"Total denial of the fact that traditional publishers watch the movers and shakers at PA."

Really? I'm curious how many of the folks in the illustrious new imprint at PA have been approached by "traditional publishers." We won't dwell on the fact that you're separating "traditional publishers" from PA, which would tend to imply they aren't a "traditional publisher", as they always claim. (Then of course, there's the fact one of their biggest movers and shakers went to another POD for her most recent book. Guess she won't be giving any big talks on how to sell books at the upcoming convention...)

"Would I go with another publisher?"

You never did really answer this question...I'm curious...if another publisher asked and PA didn't match the deal, would you jump ship? An honest question...

"Look, if you want to dash your dreams, that's your business."

Actually, PA dashed my dreams...by making me try to believe my book was sellable under their terms. Whether it was sellable (or publishable) or not is a moot point anymore...

"I'm not the one who signs a contract and then complains about it in a way that might hurt my publisher on their own freakin' message board."

Actually, I think a majority of the complaints people bring up on the message board are items you don't read about in the contract. Pricing is one. Store stocking is another. There are many other issues that come up, but these are the two that were usually the biggest.

"Giving away a guitar at a book signing made it a lot of fun. That incentive sold a lot of books..."

Remind us again how many books (your titles) you sold during that event...

"Working out details like that with local vendors is how it's done."

I prefer working out details like how I'm going to get my books there on time. That, and how I'm going to get paid. And there's always things like how the event is going to publicized. They normally turn out a lot better that way...

"Multi-author signings provide variety to the public."

I have to agree to that (a single book tends to limit the exposure, because not everyone enjoys the same genre)...unfortunately, most multi-author signings set up through chain stores end up being little more than a "tuck 'em in a corner" event, with tons of authors stashed at a minimum number of tables. It's very tough for any author to make any impact in that sort of a setting (when you're trying hard not to smack each other with your elbows while signing books).

"All I can se here is a lot of people who said: "Oh, i've got the keys to the kingdom, but THIS is in my way! When I run out of THIS I have plenty of THAT to thwart my efforts as well! It's all somebody else's fault! It can't be me! I wrote the dammed thing!" Puuuulease. I'm so tired of hearing two year-old arguements."

I'm still trying to figure out what all this meant...can anyone interpret it for me?

Although the bit about "It's all somebody else's fault! It can't be me! I wrote the dammed thing!" sounds like it was pulled directly off the PA boards, when anyone ends up with a negative review, or gets the door slammed in their face at a newspaper or a bookstore...

"The idea that this board has even heard of me means I'm doing something right. You follow?"

Just because one has been heard of doesn't mean what they do is 'something right'.

Oh well...as is always the case, you have your opinion...I have mine...everyone around here has their own...and no one is going to change their mind despite what anyone says...

Best to keep writing and let the chips fall where they may...

Big Daddy West
:hat
 
Old 01-21-2004, 06:22 AM   #45
GravityFades
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Posts: n/a
Re: Jeepers!

To borrow a quote from Richard M. Nixon (strange thought!):"let me say this about that." I have one, count 'em, one novel with PA, and that's the last one they'll get. My second one was done with a large traditional CBA house, and will be in stores nationwide May 1.
How is this being accomplished? the young lad in the back asks. Simple, my boy: the publisher has my book listed in a catalog. Said catalog is then placed in the hands of a highly-trained sales force. It is THEY who make the rounds to the book buyers, taking orders for it (please God).
Yeah, I have to talk it up, be available for interviews and signings and such, but those will be booked by a very nice lady at the publisher called a publicist. Of course, common sense and five decades on the planet tells me that I won't get the treatment that, say, King or Grisham enjoys. That'll come with time (again, please God). But I won't have to collar some poor overworked wretch of a Borders manager and plead with him to stock five copies of my overpriced opus.

In sum, let me finish with another quote (Mae West, if I'm not mistaken): "I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is better."

Thus endeth the lesson.

John
 
Old 01-21-2004, 06:43 AM   #46
FM St George
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Re: Jeepers!

well put, both of you...

wonder if we'll ever see any other PA authors venture out beyond the masturbatory world of their own boards... this one and others where, perhaps, it's not all glitter and gold paint. Where Real Authors who have actually dealt with reviewers outside of PA shills and editors who don't just rubberstamp whatever's on the paper and you actually EARN money for your writing instead of having to harass bookstore owners and earn a paltry buck a buck because you can't afford to give a decent discount.

and, again - for all their efforts there's only one PA author I can think of who's sold 500 books... that fact alone should have the majority of them hanging their heads in shame.

sad fact is that most of us who've been "banned" actually had good reasons and questions - now our "publisher" refuses to answer our emails and ignores us - hardly good business behavior and most certainly not a way to win us back.

but then, they don't care - there's always another sucker down the block waiting for that magic email from PA offering to "publish" them...
 
Old 01-21-2004, 08:32 AM   #47
Ed Williams 3
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Well, what did we expect?

"No publisher prospects beyond paying to have it done."

I've never paid one dime to publish either of my first two books. The third one is under option as we speak. I get good royalty checks, and expense paid trips to major book conferences.

"No chance of distribution in the big stores as offered by PA's partnership."

Name some PA titles that have stocked nationwide in any of the well known national chain bookstores.

"If I didn't give PA the first crack or chance to match, what would the new publisher think of me?"

That you had regained your publishing sanity.

"If you worked on the greatest novel of all time and it didn't get the recognition you expected, you post here."

Big talk when you consider the top selling PA title has sold maybe 500 copies.

"We're happy folks, you're not. Sad day in you-land, huh?"

If you're happy, why the diatribe? And if your publisher is so wonderful, why do they not accord their own authors the privilege you have here, that of being able to post whatever you want to? What's their fear?

"People who have read my first book seek out the second one. That's how it's done."

And where, other than the internet, might they find one?

"Multi-author signings provide variety to the public."

Good point, HB. Might help to have some copies available for them to buy, too. What did you have at this big signing, one copy of your own book to hawk? That signing is an absolute joke, if I was you I'd not use that as a defense of your publisher.

"Traditional and pay publishers can't offer that beyond the next addition."

How would you possibly know what a traditional publisher would offer their authors?

"The idea that this board has even heard of me means I'm doing something right. You follow?"

HB, you're held up as one of the main examples of a PA zealot, and you're proud of that. This is America, and you have that right, but the reason people know you is not because you're doing something right. You're touting a publisher that's an industry joke, and your top selling author sells maybe 500 copies. Hell, my publisher gave away close to a hundred of my latest at just one trade show this past fall. How many trade shows has PA sent you to?
 
Old 01-21-2004, 10:32 AM   #48
James D Macdonald
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Re: Jeepers!

Total denial of the fact that traditional publishers watch the movers and shakers at PA.

You're right; I totally deny that's a fact.

Here's something for you to think about over there in Cloud Cuckoo Land:

If the traditional publishers thought that the PublishAmerica plan was worth a damn, they'd be doing it too, and better than PA is doing it.

If traditionally-published authors thought PA was worth a damn they'd be at PA elbowing you out of the way.

Mostly, though, traditional publishers don't know who PublishAmerica is. Those who do don't care.

PublishAmerica is a nightmare for bookstore managers. It doesn't trouble the sleep of traditional publishers. Traditional publishers: You know, the guys who are in the business of selling books to people the author has never looked in the eye.

So, again, no dodging: How's business? How much more have you spent on your books and promoting them than you've brought in from total book sales?

How many books, grand total, have you actually sold, given away, or otherwise distributed?

Now tell me, what's your experience with traditional publishers? How many works have you submitted to them? What kind of responses did you get?
 
Old 01-21-2004, 12:47 PM   #49
HConn
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Re: Jeepers!

I'm sure pro writers will be happy to jump to PA for the chance to "be creative."

Quote:
After 4 months of intensive work and 18
booksignings after receiving my author's copy
of my novel, I wanted to share these bullet
points...
� You CAN get into major bookstores. I asked
for and got a "BINC" # from Borders and have
had 7 successful signings with them. Also
with WaldenBooks, B&N and B. Dalton.
� You MUST creatively present yourself. I
walked in with a half bushel of apples (see
title: ROTTEN AT THE CORE), silkscreeened
t-shirts for their staff to wear during the
signing, a 3' x 10' banner, business cards,
bookmarks, 11" x 17" posters, a sign-in sheet
promoting my second book (I have hundreds
of contacts now to market from!), and printouts
from my website showing the store's name,
website, etc. Also, a contract guaranteeing
that I will buy back all unsold books that they
order or offering to bring my own, and finally, a
promotion plan showing where I would drop
direct mail postcards and/or have kids deliver
door hangers, and where I would submit my
press releases.
www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/newauthors/883.htm
 
Old 01-21-2004, 01:19 PM   #50
finerthingsinlife
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Re: Jeepers!

I must admit to have a sneaky sympathy--regardless of the publishing choice (poor--given), his/her approach DOES show both passion and creativity. Rag on the publisher with abandon, but when a poor b*gger goes to those lengths , you do have to take you hat off to them. I'm in marketing and I have done some whacky promos sometimes but that individual has big kahunas to do that. Yes, making the most of a poor decision, but got to give them a 'nice try' award mention.

From my little perspective, let's stick to shooting PA and not pick out the individuals that are trying to make the most of a dumb publishing decision.

Summary--poor publisher decision, nice try on at least trying to sell a book that will never see a bookshop otherwise.

Going back to lurking....
 
Old 01-21-2004, 04:44 PM   #51
Ed Williams 3
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Per Mr. Marcus' own words...

....below are the totals per each PA title that the bookstore where this illustrious PA booksigning/guitar raffle took place claimed to be able to order. In the end, of course, no books actually came in for the signing, but forget about that for just a second. Just suppose that the order below had come in just in time for the big signing - with the number of copies below that each author had available to hawk, bet they were all eating steak dinners afterwards!

_______________________________________________

HBMarcus

11/20/2003
15:18:35
Subject: IT'S ON FOLKS!!!

Message:
The books are due to arrive tomorrow (Friday) at the Walden's in Mentor for the Ohio book signing. That's the good news. Now the bad news. Aw come on, you knew there would be some. There weren't enough available of all titles. The following is a list of what the corporate office was able to get for the event.

H.B.Marcus-THE JOE SCHMOE SHOW-1413702872 1 copy

Sheryl Nantus-THE DRAGON WHO WAS BORED-1592861261 1 copy

Londis Carpenter-SKETCHES FROM LIFE-1413704158 3 copies

Frank P. Whyte-HEARTS OF GOLD-1592865682 3 copies

Claudette Milner-CHILDREN OF PLAINS ESTATES-1413704247 1 copy

Emanuel Carpenter-A JOB AIN'T NOTHING BUT WORK-1413703232 1 copy

Anne Sweeney Holliday-CONTEMPT OF COURT-1592869238 5 copies

Rich Kisielewski-DA BUSHES-1592863094 5 copies

S.L. VanOrman-DARK MINDS-1592865429 1 copy

Jennifer D. Milo-TWIST OF FATE-1413702309 1 copy

Tim Smith-MEMORIES DIE LAST-1591292425 2 copies

Paula F. Blevins-THE WAY HOME-159286113x 5 copies

Robin Adams-TOO MANY TEARS-1592867367 - Not available through Ingram

Annette DeLore-PRISONER OF THE HEART-1591293049 1 copy

Robin Adams, I hope you have author copies. We shall continue with the event and simply take orders for books. I will work out the details with the manager today. I want to stay professional about this and carry through with the event. It is very important to not let this one event affect relations between PA and Walden's books so please plan on attending and everything will be worked out.

THE BOOKS HAVE BEEN SENT AND WILL BE THERE.

Don't forget to bring book marks and business cards and such. I'll be posting further details as I get them. Thanks for hanging in there pirates.
 
Old 01-21-2004, 06:50 PM   #52
FM St George
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Re: Per Mr. Marcus' own words...

as one of the authors mentioned, this WAS the point that turned me away from going there - well, that and car trouble.

if I have to count on supplying my OWN books every time there's a signing, then I'm a fool - the max. you can purchase books from PA is a 30% discount and usually bookstores will demand that much, if not more back at the signings. This one, I believe, had nothing, but the authors had tables out in the MALL, not in the bookstore after all.

of course, you can just stand there and hand out bookmarks and so forth, but wouldn't you feel more the fool if your "publisher" can't even supply the books when needed? Especially with the bragging that POD means that each book is available almost immediately?

too much money flowing AWAY from the authors and TOWARDS PA with very little profit possible or even in sight - and while these peeps may find it a wonderful hobby to keep tossing money to a company that doesn't even keep their promises, some of us have moved on and away from that.

jmo, ymmv.
 
Old 01-21-2004, 07:52 PM   #53
FM St George
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Posts: n/a
Re: The Mob is at the Front Door...

www.dailynewstribune.com/...202004.htm

there's already a post up at the PA boards declaring that they're planning to swarm this columnist for the lie that PA charges a fee for their books...

I think they should just be ashamed that a little old lady is being scammed like this...

jmo, ymmv...
 
Old 01-21-2004, 08:20 PM   #54
emeraldcite
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Posts: n/a
geez...

quote:

Also, a contract guaranteeing
that I will buy back all unsold books that they
order or offering to bring my own,

/end quote

so if PA won't have a buyback policy, the authors have to substitute their own just to get into the bookstore. it would suck if b&n bought 100 over-priced copies and you were forced by your own contract to buy back 90 of them. that's quite a gamble.
 
Old 01-21-2004, 11:52 PM   #55
darbyj
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Re: geez...

Was PA aware of the lack of books for that guitar raffle/book signing? If so, why didn't they just ship over the "49 in stock" they always seem to have for each author in the signing?

FM, I think if I were you, I'd try to wiggle out of my contract and when they pull the old "49 copies" crap, you could throw that in their faces.

Lisa
 
Old 01-21-2004, 11:53 PM   #56
HConn
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Posts: n/a
Re: Jeepers!

finer, I'm not "shooting" the poster who wrote that marketing plan. I'm pointing out how much trouble and money they had to expend to market their own book because of the handicaps that come from being a PA author.
 
Old 01-22-2004, 12:15 AM   #57
FM St George
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Posts: n/a
Re: Jeepers!

well, I doubt they'd let me get out of it, considering I'm a mouthy broad...

as far as marketing goes - this fellow is a GREAT example of a truly dedicated author - he believes in his book and is willing to promote it as best he can...

too bad that he's got the ankle chain and ball of PA with him - can you imagine how he would be on a real tour with some decent money behind him? (NOT his own; a publisher's?)

if you have to buy your books to sell your books, then you're losing money from the start... I daresay that the "lousy" shipping that PA seems to continually have is part of the deal to force authors to buy their own books "to have on hand" and avoid such problems...

the cesspool is just getting dirtier and dirtier...
 
Old 01-22-2004, 05:10 AM   #58
astonwest
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Posts: n/a
Re: The Mob is at the Front Door...

Does anyone know for certain they didn't charge for publication back in 1999? I have a 1999 Writer's Market which contains a "new" listing for Erica House, which was the predecessor of AmErica House/Publish America, as I recall.

Who knows?
 
Old 01-22-2004, 05:13 AM   #59
James D Macdonald
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Posts: n/a
Re: Jeepers!

Okay, let's deal with the myth that PublishAmerica books get bookstore distribution.

They don't.

Here's proof that you can check yourself:

Take the list of all PublishAmerica books published this month. You can get it off Amazon; there are 179 titles listed. Take those titles and authors and copy them down.
Now check for PA's 10 best-sellers (again from Amazon).
Copy those down.

Now with that list of 189 books, go to your favorite bookstore. A local independent, a regional big-box, whatever pleases you.

Check to see how many of those books are on the shelf.

I can tell you right now how many you'll find: None.

(Of course, it's possible that you may find a copy of a title or two. In that case, I bet you that the author lives within 25 miles of that store.)

With any legitimate publisher that has thousands of general interest books in print, you'd expect to find multiple copies of hundreds of titles on the shelves.

To prove that, try the same experiment with any legitimate traditional publisher that puts out a roughly similar number of titles per month. How many books did you find?

While it wasn't the complete list, you found a pretty fair selection, didn't you?

QED, folks. Don't believe me; try it.

(Oh, yeah -- while you won't find any of the PublishAmerica books <a href="http://catalog.loc.gov/" target="_blank">cataloged at the Library of Congress</a>, you'll find every single one of that legitimate press's books cataloged there. Funny thing!)

<HR>

No one is dumping on PublishAmerica's authors. They're writers, every one of them. They finished a book. They love their books. Based on slush-pile experience PublishAmerica has even released three or four good books this month, books that thousands of people might read with pleasure and recommend to their friends. Unfortunately, the PublishAmerica model is such (unedited overpriced non-returnable books with horrible distributor discounts) that the good books will suffer the same fate as the bad books: They'll only be read by the author's family and friends.

Even if an author does everything PublishAmerica suggests, and does it perfectly, he'll still sell a negligible quantity of books.

It's a pity. A tragedy. It isn't the author's fault that he believed PublishAmerica's claim that they're a "traditional publisher."
 
Old 01-23-2004, 02:40 AM   #60
GravityFades
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Posts: n/a
Re: Jeepers!

As an addendum, check out the "poor quality books" thread on PA...sad.

John
 
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