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Old 01-21-2004, 05:44 PM   #51
Ed Williams 3
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Per Mr. Marcus' own words...

....below are the totals per each PA title that the bookstore where this illustrious PA booksigning/guitar raffle took place claimed to be able to order. In the end, of course, no books actually came in for the signing, but forget about that for just a second. Just suppose that the order below had come in just in time for the big signing - with the number of copies below that each author had available to hawk, bet they were all eating steak dinners afterwards!

_______________________________________________

HBMarcus

11/20/2003
15:18:35
Subject: IT'S ON FOLKS!!!

Message:
The books are due to arrive tomorrow (Friday) at the Walden's in Mentor for the Ohio book signing. That's the good news. Now the bad news. Aw come on, you knew there would be some. There weren't enough available of all titles. The following is a list of what the corporate office was able to get for the event.

H.B.Marcus-THE JOE SCHMOE SHOW-1413702872 1 copy

Sheryl Nantus-THE DRAGON WHO WAS BORED-1592861261 1 copy

Londis Carpenter-SKETCHES FROM LIFE-1413704158 3 copies

Frank P. Whyte-HEARTS OF GOLD-1592865682 3 copies

Claudette Milner-CHILDREN OF PLAINS ESTATES-1413704247 1 copy

Emanuel Carpenter-A JOB AIN'T NOTHING BUT WORK-1413703232 1 copy

Anne Sweeney Holliday-CONTEMPT OF COURT-1592869238 5 copies

Rich Kisielewski-DA BUSHES-1592863094 5 copies

S.L. VanOrman-DARK MINDS-1592865429 1 copy

Jennifer D. Milo-TWIST OF FATE-1413702309 1 copy

Tim Smith-MEMORIES DIE LAST-1591292425 2 copies

Paula F. Blevins-THE WAY HOME-159286113x 5 copies

Robin Adams-TOO MANY TEARS-1592867367 - Not available through Ingram

Annette DeLore-PRISONER OF THE HEART-1591293049 1 copy

Robin Adams, I hope you have author copies. We shall continue with the event and simply take orders for books. I will work out the details with the manager today. I want to stay professional about this and carry through with the event. It is very important to not let this one event affect relations between PA and Walden's books so please plan on attending and everything will be worked out.

THE BOOKS HAVE BEEN SENT AND WILL BE THERE.

Don't forget to bring book marks and business cards and such. I'll be posting further details as I get them. Thanks for hanging in there pirates.
 
Old 01-21-2004, 07:50 PM   #52
FM St George
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Re: Per Mr. Marcus' own words...

as one of the authors mentioned, this WAS the point that turned me away from going there - well, that and car trouble.

if I have to count on supplying my OWN books every time there's a signing, then I'm a fool - the max. you can purchase books from PA is a 30% discount and usually bookstores will demand that much, if not more back at the signings. This one, I believe, had nothing, but the authors had tables out in the MALL, not in the bookstore after all.

of course, you can just stand there and hand out bookmarks and so forth, but wouldn't you feel more the fool if your "publisher" can't even supply the books when needed? Especially with the bragging that POD means that each book is available almost immediately?

too much money flowing AWAY from the authors and TOWARDS PA with very little profit possible or even in sight - and while these peeps may find it a wonderful hobby to keep tossing money to a company that doesn't even keep their promises, some of us have moved on and away from that.

jmo, ymmv.
 
Old 01-21-2004, 08:52 PM   #53
FM St George
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Re: The Mob is at the Front Door...

www.dailynewstribune.com/...202004.htm

there's already a post up at the PA boards declaring that they're planning to swarm this columnist for the lie that PA charges a fee for their books...

I think they should just be ashamed that a little old lady is being scammed like this...

jmo, ymmv...
 
Old 01-21-2004, 09:20 PM   #54
emeraldcite
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geez...

quote:

Also, a contract guaranteeing
that I will buy back all unsold books that they
order or offering to bring my own,

/end quote

so if PA won't have a buyback policy, the authors have to substitute their own just to get into the bookstore. it would suck if b&n bought 100 over-priced copies and you were forced by your own contract to buy back 90 of them. that's quite a gamble.
 
Old 01-22-2004, 12:52 AM   #55
darbyj
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Re: geez...

Was PA aware of the lack of books for that guitar raffle/book signing? If so, why didn't they just ship over the "49 in stock" they always seem to have for each author in the signing?

FM, I think if I were you, I'd try to wiggle out of my contract and when they pull the old "49 copies" crap, you could throw that in their faces.

Lisa
 
Old 01-22-2004, 12:53 AM   #56
HConn
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Re: Jeepers!

finer, I'm not "shooting" the poster who wrote that marketing plan. I'm pointing out how much trouble and money they had to expend to market their own book because of the handicaps that come from being a PA author.
 
Old 01-22-2004, 01:15 AM   #57
FM St George
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Re: Jeepers!

well, I doubt they'd let me get out of it, considering I'm a mouthy broad...

as far as marketing goes - this fellow is a GREAT example of a truly dedicated author - he believes in his book and is willing to promote it as best he can...

too bad that he's got the ankle chain and ball of PA with him - can you imagine how he would be on a real tour with some decent money behind him? (NOT his own; a publisher's?)

if you have to buy your books to sell your books, then you're losing money from the start... I daresay that the "lousy" shipping that PA seems to continually have is part of the deal to force authors to buy their own books "to have on hand" and avoid such problems...

the cesspool is just getting dirtier and dirtier...
 
Old 01-22-2004, 06:10 AM   #58
astonwest
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Re: The Mob is at the Front Door...

Does anyone know for certain they didn't charge for publication back in 1999? I have a 1999 Writer's Market which contains a "new" listing for Erica House, which was the predecessor of AmErica House/Publish America, as I recall.

Who knows?
 
Old 01-22-2004, 06:13 AM   #59
James D Macdonald
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Re: Jeepers!

Okay, let's deal with the myth that PublishAmerica books get bookstore distribution.

They don't.

Here's proof that you can check yourself:

Take the list of all PublishAmerica books published this month. You can get it off Amazon; there are 179 titles listed. Take those titles and authors and copy them down.
Now check for PA's 10 best-sellers (again from Amazon).
Copy those down.

Now with that list of 189 books, go to your favorite bookstore. A local independent, a regional big-box, whatever pleases you.

Check to see how many of those books are on the shelf.

I can tell you right now how many you'll find: None.

(Of course, it's possible that you may find a copy of a title or two. In that case, I bet you that the author lives within 25 miles of that store.)

With any legitimate publisher that has thousands of general interest books in print, you'd expect to find multiple copies of hundreds of titles on the shelves.

To prove that, try the same experiment with any legitimate traditional publisher that puts out a roughly similar number of titles per month. How many books did you find?

While it wasn't the complete list, you found a pretty fair selection, didn't you?

QED, folks. Don't believe me; try it.

(Oh, yeah -- while you won't find any of the PublishAmerica books <a href="http://catalog.loc.gov/" target="_blank">cataloged at the Library of Congress</a>, you'll find every single one of that legitimate press's books cataloged there. Funny thing!)

<HR>

No one is dumping on PublishAmerica's authors. They're writers, every one of them. They finished a book. They love their books. Based on slush-pile experience PublishAmerica has even released three or four good books this month, books that thousands of people might read with pleasure and recommend to their friends. Unfortunately, the PublishAmerica model is such (unedited overpriced non-returnable books with horrible distributor discounts) that the good books will suffer the same fate as the bad books: They'll only be read by the author's family and friends.

Even if an author does everything PublishAmerica suggests, and does it perfectly, he'll still sell a negligible quantity of books.

It's a pity. A tragedy. It isn't the author's fault that he believed PublishAmerica's claim that they're a "traditional publisher."
 
Old 01-23-2004, 03:40 AM   #60
GravityFades
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Re: Jeepers!

As an addendum, check out the "poor quality books" thread on PA...sad.

John
 
Old 01-23-2004, 06:07 AM   #61
astonwest
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Re: Jeepers!

Very sad...

It's sad because you can see the brainwashing going on...one of the persons involved in the discussion actually used a phrase that has been used over and over again by PA supporters...the bit about getting in on the ground floor of a growing company. Sigh.

It's rather amusing...
I've read some recent books by traditional publishers, and only one of them had a major error (and only one error) that made me go "huh?" I believe that same book may have had one or two other spelling errors...

Unless one can't consider Henry Holt, St. Martin's Press, or Putnam traditional, of course......

I have a PA book (not mine) on my shelf that has at least ten major spelling, grammar, or comma problems...all on the first page.

Ahhhhh, but I forget..."real" authors are supposed to go get their books professionally edited (to perfection) before submitting them to a publisher.

Puh-shaw!

Big Daddy West
:hat
 
Old 01-23-2004, 07:09 AM   #62
AnneMarble
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Re: Jeepers!

Quote:
As an addendum, check out the "poor quality books" thread on PA...sad.
That is sad. People see only want they want to see. I think PublishAmerica uses strong soap in its brainwashing.

I found the comments on Avon covers interesting. I agree that their romance covers aren't the best or most imaginative, but they aren't that horrid. Most of all, they Sell Books. Isn't that the whole idea? I was also amused by the line "Their books look like kindergarten art projects." I wonder if the author saw some of the "cartoon covers" (popular on contemporary romance today) and didn't realize that they're _supposed_ to look like that?
 
Old 01-23-2004, 01:19 PM   #63
Canada James
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subject

'I've read some recent books by traditional publishers, and only one of them had a major error (and only one error) that made me go "huh?"'

Then you don't read enough books. Errors in books (and poorly made books) are more common than you think. Most times the poorly crafted books (pages printed upside down, the wrong book printed in the wrong cover, glue all over the place, etc) are caught by the bookstore before they hit the shelves.

For some really serious errors check out Dirt Eaters by Dennis Foon or The Bone Collector's Son by Paul Yee. Both published traditionally and both with awful editing.

I think the difference is not that "traditional" houses produce error free books whereas PA doesn't produce error free books but that only the former is embarrassed when it happens.

"Ahhhhh, but I forget..."real" authors are supposed to go get their books professionally edited (to perfection) before submitting them to a publisher."

Actually I was given that advice by a NYT best-selling author (and even given the name of the person she uses). She's a friend of mine so she wasn't trying to sell me something, she just believes in using an editorial service before submitting her work to a publisher. (And just a point - I found a typo in her book.)

Canada James
 
Old 01-23-2004, 07:53 PM   #64
astonwest
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Re: subject

"Then you don't read enough books."

You're probably right. With all the projects I have going on, plus the day job, I get very little time to read a ton of books.

"...are caught by the bookstore before they hit the shelves."

Unfortunately, in the PA business plan, bookstores aren't the main receivers of the incorrect books. The general public tends to receive them direct.

"I think the difference is not that "traditional" houses produce error free books whereas PA doesn't produce error free books but that only the former is embarrassed when it happens."

Again, you're right (and be careful, you'll get your card pulled if PA sees you putting out 'could-be-construed-as-slams-against-PA'). Unfortunately, you have multiple folks supporting PA telling folks they do thorough edits, and trying to convince people that the naysayers are lying.

"Actually I was given that advice by a NYT best-selling author (and even given the name of the person she uses). She's a friend of mine so she wasn't trying to sell me something, she just believes in using an editorial service before submitting her work to a publisher. (And just a point - I found a typo in her book.)"

Two points here. 1) She may not have been trying to sell you anything, but the fact that she gave you the name of the person she uses makes me personally wonder if she was attempting to give a referral for her editor (nothing wrong with that, of course). May not have been the case, but it certainly made me wonder.

Myself, I don't like the idea of paying money for something that may or may not improve my chances of getting the book accepted. Flushing money down the toilet, that is.

2) You still found a typo in her book, which is normal for any book professionally edited. The difference being, it was obvious (to you...at least I hope) it was simply overlooked during the process. People make mistakes. When there are an abundance of problems in editing, though, one can't rely on folks believing it was simply overlooked.
 
Old 01-23-2004, 07:57 PM   #65
CWGranny
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Errors

"Actually I was given that advice by a NYT best-selling author (and even given the name of the person she uses). She's a friend of mine so she wasn't trying to sell me something, she just believes in using an editorial service before submitting her work to a publisher. (And just a point - I found a typo in her book.)"

I know a couple children's writers who do that, too -- not many. I asked two editors about it (whether it was common, do editors appreciate it, etc) and was told that those two editors HATED dealing with authors who had their manuscripts done by an "editorial service" (and that other editors they knew hated it also) because (1) editing isn't absolute and what an editorial service does is not necessarily what a publisher would do and (2) the authors who use "editorial services" tend to be resistant to the editorial process with the publisher. They already "paid" for an edit, so why should they let this editor at the publishing house tamper with their prose?

Once an author gets "big name" enough, she can get away with that kind of attitude because a publisher will back down rather than losing the author. But the result (according to the editors I quizzed) is a decline in the quality of the writing and a different "sound" to the author's prose once she stops being edited by the publisher (sometimes different enough for readers to think the author is no longer writing the books and they just have her name on them).

It should be noted though that this is a US American problem and one author told me that in Australia, publishers actually like it if you have a book independently edited before submission -- since it saves time. But is does not endear you to US editors -- at least not to all of them.

Gran
 
Old 01-23-2004, 10:43 PM   #66
James D Macdonald
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Re: subject

Dirt Eaters by Dennis Foon is from <a href="http://www.annickpress.com/catalog/index.html" target="_blank">Annick Press.</a>

I've been unable to find The Bone Collector's Son by Paul Yee. Are you sure of the title/author?
 
Old 01-23-2004, 11:57 PM   #67
FM St George
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Another rebel appears..

www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/8896.htm

this has got me wondering if PA is on the edge of bankruptcy or something like that if they can't even produce the product people are paying for...
 
Old 01-24-2004, 12:30 AM   #68
darbyj
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Editing and Typos

First of all, both Jameses: I thought The Bone Collector's Son was written by Amy Tan?

The types of editing errors I see in many PA books in abundance, but rarely in traditionally published books are not typos. They are more distracting than that. They are as small as constant spelling errors (spelling Sergeant as Sargent throughout an entire book, for example) and tense errors, but can get as large as what I consider to be "flow errors". These are problems with flow in the story and with the author going off on tangents. These are not things PA edits out. These are not things traditional publishers always edit out, but I see them more in PA books. They are what truly ruin the stories, not the typos.

Lisa
 
Old 01-24-2004, 02:37 AM   #69
StellaMoon
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Re: Editing and Typos

Amy Tan wrote The Bonesetter's Daughter.

Paul Yee's The Bone Collector's Son is published by Tradewind Books.
 
Old 01-24-2004, 05:29 AM   #70
Deejay816
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Bonesetter's Son

Can be ordered here:

www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos...94-8065909

Hope that works - I always have such a time with urls on message boards.

Deejay
 
Old 01-24-2004, 05:31 AM   #71
Deejay816
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Oops!

And of course I meant Bone Collector's not setter's, but that sounds like a good title too. :p
 
Old 01-24-2004, 05:38 AM   #72
XThe NavigatorX
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Re: More PA woes, straight from a PA author's mouth...

I think it's a pretty good idea to have your book edited by a pro, also. But I'm lucky enough to be married to an eagle-eyed pro editor, so it's not so much a chore for me.
 
Old 01-24-2004, 06:39 AM   #73
SRHowen
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A pro editor?

While I do freelance editing, I do mostly non-fiction stuff, and some fiction, but I end up doing stuff for publishers etc.

Your book should be the best you can do, then you get an agent or a publisher and they will edit--don't fool yourself into thinking a pro-edit is going to get you in the door.

Be comfy with grammar etc., then do the best you can and send out--some issues will continue to be an issue for you unless you teach yourself something about the mechanics of writing.

I'm sure James and others here can confirm that agents and publishers EDIT--even pro edited work.

Shawn
 
Old 01-24-2004, 07:12 AM   #74
James D Macdonald
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Re: More PA woes, straight from a PA author's mouth...

When you sell your book to a legitimate publisher, I assure you that it will be professionally edited at no cost to you.
 
Old 01-24-2004, 08:23 AM   #75
Deejay816
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James, I agree

I agree with you 100% but there are some people who can tell a story who simply have writing skills that aren't up to par. In other words, if they didn't have their manuscripts edited before submitting, their chances of getting looked at, let alone published, would be pretty slim. Since this is a PA thread, I don't think it's out of line to refer to some PA books here. If probably read a dozen PA books - I think with some serious editing, a few of those could have been picked up by more traditional publishers - without, those books end up at PA because the authors become frustrated when no one else will take them seriously.

Deejay
 
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