The Function of Publish America

Bartholomew · Jan 2, 2007

I really wanted to entitle this thread:

Publish America--The Best Thing To Happen To Men Since Women!

But I resisted in the interest of having an actual discussion.

#

PA's business practices have been underlined, outlined and drawn out six ways to tuesday. Most of the regulars here are aware of how PA makes money. The question I pose is this:

Does PublishAmerica serve a function in the publishing industry, or are they outside of it altogether? Do they fill a niche, or are they wasting space?

WildScribe · Jan 2, 2007

Seriously, I've heard that they sop up the worst of the slush, lightening the load for real publishers.

Bartholomew · Jan 2, 2007

WildScribe said:
Seriously, I've heard that they sop up the worst of the slush, lightening the load for real publishers.

I've heard that too, and I wonder if its a blessing or a curse.

On one hand, PA is doubtlessly catching thousands of unusable manuscripts that real publishers won't have to look at.

On the other, they're thugs. Thugs are bad.

imagoodgurl4 · Jan 2, 2007

PA offers no benefit to the publishing world. The only purpose they serve is for themselves. Yes, the amount of unsaleable manuscripts on real publishers' desks may be less, but it's not right to scam people out of their money. If they were upfront with their contract: "Hey, you have to buy your own books, because we're really nothing more than a printer." Then they'd be more POD like LuLu and people would at least know what they were getting themselves into. The fact that they must be deceitful about it is just plain wrong.

Okay, that's my two cents.

J.S Greer · Jan 2, 2007

I think that aside from the slush pile thing, the real purpose that they serve is to dilute the literary pool, and make other self pub/vanity/and POD houses seem more legit.

Also, dilluting the pool of "Talent" serves to kill the self pub business as a viable option in most cases. I mean, as with anything, going the non traditional route works in some cases and for some people based on what they want published and their reasoning for doing so.

Any way you slice it, it seems that PA's purpose is dilution.

Marian Perera · Jan 2, 2007

Bartholomew said:
On one hand, PA is doubtlessly catching thousands of unusable manuscripts that real publishers won't have to look at.

But they must be snagging some good manuscripts as well, or least manuscripts that might have a chance to be excellent novels - a chance they won't have with PA.

And they're sapping a lot of authors' time and talent and money. The creativity that goes into those "how can I market my book?" threads should be going into "how can I make my next book even better?"

PattiTheWicked · Jan 2, 2007

If PA dilutes the pool of manuscripts in the slush pile, that works out nicely for the rest of us.

When a herd gets culled, it's usually the better beef that's left over.

*Briefly edited so that no one will mistakenly believe I'm dissin' other writers.

MMcC · Jan 2, 2007

What puzzles me is how they are in business when there are legitimate and LOGICAL alternatives.

I have never published a book through a POD or Vanity, but I think Lulu is great. They offer a service (one I have even considered for a combo photography and poetry thing just as a personal project). They aren't ripping people off, and if you REALLY want to chase the dream you can purchase your own ISBN and amazon that bugger.

Why go with these dingleberries?

Bartholomew · Jan 2, 2007

Queen of Swords said:
But they must be snagging some good manuscripts as well, or least manuscripts that might have a chance to be excellent novels - a chance they won't have with PA.

And they're sapping a lot of authors' time and talent and money. The creativity that goes into those "how can I market my book?" threads should be going into "how can I make my next book even better?"

A valid concern. Writers need to be given nourishment, like a plant, or they whither and die.

Gravity · Jan 2, 2007

This was kind of brought up in another AW thread, and this is what I answered (and it brings me little joy to say it, I might add)

You want to hear something horrible? A nasty little thing I've found out by attending (and speaking at) national writers' conferences these past few years? Psst, here it is: commercial publishers and agents are starting to LOVE PublishAmerica.

Yes, I can hear the gasps of disbelief, but I'll tell you exactly what some of them have told me. Since PA has made such a presence in these last few years, the quality of the manuscripts these editors and agents are recieving has increased dramatically. One editor put it this way. "PublishAmerica is the literary equivalent of a lobster," he said (and I'm paraphrasing here). "Not because it tastes good. But because it's a well-known fact that lobsters are really nothing more than sea-going cockroaches. They'll eat anything, and leave the ocean floor in a better condition. So it is with PublishAmerica. They deal with the crap, so we rarely see it. That leaves us free to seriously consider the submissions we do ask for. For good writers, that's a win."

PA lurkers, that's something to ponder, ain't it?

tlblack · Jan 2, 2007

It's really bad that PA exists at all with it's illusions of grandeur for first timers to be thinking they will have a best seller or at the very least a good seller. It would be much better to tell them up front they can't write; they don't write well; they need a lot of work; or the work is okay but could be much improved, than it is for PA to publish whatever they send in, no matter it's condition - then leave them for the wolves. As long as PA makes their money on what books it's authors are buying, they don't care. It won't matter how many figure it out, there will always be more unknowing ones to take their places as long as there is a PA.

Bartholomew · Jan 2, 2007

Gravity said:
This was kind of brought up in another AW thread, and this is what I answered (and it brings me little joy to say it, I might add)

You want to hear something horrible? A nasty little thing I've found out by attending (and speaking at) national writers' conferences these past few years? Psst, here it is: commercial publishers and agents are starting to LOVE PublishAmerica.

Yes, I can hear the gasps of disbelief, but I'll tell you exactly what some of them have told me. Since PA has made such a presence in these last few years, the quality of the manuscripts these editors and agents are recieving has increased dramatically. One editor put it this way. "PublishAmerica is the literary equivalent of a lobster," he said (and I'm paraphrasing here). "Not because it tastes good. But because it's a well-known fact that lobsters are really nothing more than sea-going cockroaches. They'll eat anything, and leave the ocean floor in a better condition. So it is with PublishAmerica. They deal with the crap, so we rarely see it. That leaves us free to seriously consider the submissions we do ask for. For good writers, that's a win."

PA lurkers, that's something to ponder, ain't it?

Yeah. Thats what prompted me to start this thread. >_<

icerose · Jan 2, 2007

MMcC said:
What puzzles me is how they are in business when there are legitimate and LOGICAL alternatives.

It's about validation. When you realize that all things become clear, including the authors' (while getting fleeced) defend PA with an admirable but missplaced passion.

Once the author gets past the need for validation or at least realizes they aren't getting it, they either slip into the shadows and disappear or come here, or start the fight somewhere else.

Bartholomew · Jan 2, 2007

icerose said:
It's about validation. When you realize that all things become clear, including the authors' (while getting fleeced) defend PA with an admirable but missplaced passion.

Once the author gets past the need for validation or at least realizes they aren't getting it, they either slip into the shadows and disappear or come here, or start the fight somewhere else.

Its the initial misconception that PA uses to garner all of their business. Authors coming to them are generally ignorant about publishing--that, or they know just enough to be dangerous.

icerose · Jan 2, 2007

Bartholomew said:
Its the initial misconception that PA uses to garner all of their business. Authors coming to them are generally ignorant about publishing--that, or they know just enough to be dangerous.

From what I can tell there are five types of PA authors:

1. The Ignorant one who knows nothing about the industry and chances are high PA is the first one they submitted to or the first one who responded back. (I was in the first catagory.)

2. Those who tried for a bit, failed, submitted to PA hurrah, PA saved them from query hell.

3. Those who just want to have a copy to hold. *tear* This catagory chances are they will forever be happy, they always wanted their book in print they got it. What else could a person want?

4. Those who believe there is a conspiracy in the publishing industry and PA is the only one who isn't part of it.

5. Sour grapes. "I'll show you all!" Types.

The last two are the scary ones, the first three have a high chance of coming to their senses and quickly.

Bartholomew · Jan 2, 2007

icerose said:
3. Those who just want to have a copy to hold. *tear* This catagory chances are they will forever be happy, they always wanted their book in print they got it. What else could a person want?

Vanity publishing does serve an important role. I've used vanity services to make religious texts to hand out, and the like. Things I need to look pretty

James D. Macdonald · Jan 2, 2007

PublishAmerica is separate from, and has nothing to do with, the publishing industry. If they vanished tomorrow no one would notice.

imagoodgurl4 · Jan 2, 2007

I'm crossing my fingers they do vanish tomorrow...but I don't have a lot of hope.

icerose · Jan 2, 2007

James D. Macdonald said:
PublishAmerica is separate from, and has nothing to do with, the publishing industry. If they vanished tomorrow no one would notice.

Except us. We'd have to have some kind of a party.

Bartholomew · Jan 2, 2007

James D. Macdonald said:
If they vanished tomorrow no one would notice.

And I'd be the prime suspect.

TsukiRyoko · Jan 2, 2007

MMcC said:
What puzzles me is how they are in business when there are legitimate and LOGICAL alternatives.

I have never published a book through a POD or Vanity, but I think Lulu is great. They offer a service (one I have even considered for a combo photography and poetry thing just as a personal project). They aren't ripping people off, and if you REALLY want to chase the dream you can purchase your own ISBN and amazon that bugger.

Why go with these dingleberries?

This is true. I know a lot of artists on deviantart.com who have published through LuLu and have sold pretty damn well. LuLu at least has the potential to give a little success if you work hard for it. PA is just a crock of shit.

Celia Cyanide · Jan 3, 2007

Gravity said:
That leaves us free to seriously consider the submissions we do ask for. For good writers, that's a win."

That's one way to look at it. Another is that all good writers were bad at one point, and all those writers with the bad manuscripts are being told their work is publishable, when it's not. They are being denied the chance to learn from their bad manuscripts and become better writers in the process.

aruna · Jan 3, 2007

I have never published a book through a POD or Vanity, but I think Lulu is great. They offer a service (one I have even considered for a combo photography and poetry thing just as a personal project). They aren't ripping people off, and if you REALLY want to chase the dream you can purchase your own ISBN and amazon that bugger.

Yesterday I published a book through Lulu.

I have a commercially non-viable manuscript. I consider myslef a totall nincompoop as far as anything with PC's is concerned, so I was going to ask for help publishing through Lulu. But yesterday I went to Lulu just to have a look. It was scary, how quick and easy the process is.
The only thing that took any time was choosing a cover from their selection. I couldn't help it, I went all the way through to the end and got myself "published". But since the manuscript isn't quite ready to go, I deleted it again.
Five clicks. Less than five minutes. No cost. It's scary, how easy it is!

Sheryl Nantus · Jan 3, 2007

Celia Cyanide said:
Another is that all good writers were bad at one point, and all those writers with the bad manuscripts are being told their work is publishable, when it's not. They are being denied the chance to learn from their bad manuscripts and become better writers in the process.

which to me is the bigger sin - that all these writers then go out into the world and claim to have perfected their craft (as evidenced by the latest PA visitor) and have reached the pinnacle of their craft.

I can honestly say that I'm a better writer than I was, but not as good as I can be. And the day that I can say that I've learnt it all will probably be the same day I die.

PA gives them false hopes and false expectations of the writing life specifically and of life in general - that anyone can be an author and heck, why take those classes or read those books or go to the workshops?

bah.

a pox on their house.

CatSlave · Jan 3, 2007

J.S Greer said:
Any way you slice it, it seems that PA's purpose is dilution.

I think their purpose is to con as many writers out of a contract as quickly as possible, before the writers find forums like this and educate themselves. A signed contract means a captive buying audience.

Unfortunately, the number of naive writers who are easy pickings for PA appears to be endless. Regardless of how many disillusioned PA writers bail out, for each one there will be three to replace him/her. As PT Barnum said...

The Function of Publish America

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