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Old 10-04-2006, 10:53 PM   #1
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Nice going, Secret Service and Cheney
I read some article today how a guy and his young son saw Cheney at a mall or something, shaking hands and talking to people. He walked up to Cheney, staying a couple or three feet away and told him his iraq policy was reprehensible, then walked away. Later, as he's walking back near the same area, the secret service walks up to him asks if he "attacked the Vice President" (or they may have used the world "assaulted"). The man says "no", but they handcuff him and take him to jail anyway.

I wonder if they checked his like 7 year old son for dynamite.

Truly amazing.

I'll see if I can find the link to the article again.
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Old 10-05-2006, 12:29 AM   #2
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I googled and the full story can be read here.

www.denverpost.com/news/ci_4436043

The man is suing the agent, not Cheney. And frankly, in this day and age I think the Secret Service needs to be overly cautious with who approaches the VP and President.

From what I read the man approached with his son, heckled Cheney and then left. He returned a second time with another son and that's when he was arrested.

I say job well done Secret Service. Their job is to protect and when the man came back a second time it would have made me think he was up to no good.

I'm not fond (understatement) of the current administration, but there are constant threats on their lives. IMO the Secret Service did their job. The man can make more of a statement with his vote. He should also consider the bad example he set for his children.
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Old 10-05-2006, 12:34 AM   #3
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It sounds to me like somebody is looking for his 15 minutes of fame.
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Old 10-05-2006, 12:36 AM   #4
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Old 10-05-2006, 01:54 AM   #5
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Ah, that was more about the story than i had previously seen.

I stand corrected.
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Old 10-05-2006, 02:51 AM   #6
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Fantastic.

An unarmed man gives Cheney a piece of his mind while the VP is gladhanding in the mall, and he gets arrested and has to go to court before he is finally exonerated.

Cheney shoots a man in the face with a shotgun and doesn't even have to speak with local law enforcement in person.

Bravo, American Justice System. (Slow, sarcastic clapping sequence)
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Old 10-05-2006, 04:10 AM   #7
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SC, you must have missed Papa's post about standing corrected He read the entire article. The Secret Service did their job, properly.
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Old 10-05-2006, 04:13 AM   #8
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From the article:
Quote:
In the lawsuit, Howards claims Reichle violated his First Amendment right to free speech and his Fourth Amendment protection from unreasonable search and seizure. "It's such a blatant attempt to suppress a right to free speech. Such a traumatic event for my son, I couldn't just let it pass," Howards told the Associated Press Monday night, before the suit was filed...

The lawsuit asks for money for attorneys fees and damages that include loss of enjoyment of life.
What a schmuck.
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Old 10-05-2006, 04:44 AM   #9
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I'm surprised they let someone get so close to the VP... not in these days of high security alert...

AS for the guy... blah blah blah. "Loss of enjoyment of life"?
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Old 10-05-2006, 04:49 AM   #10
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AS for the guy... blah blah blah. "Loss of enjoyment of life"?
Sounds like an excellent way to sue an ex-wife...or a current one!

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Old 10-05-2006, 04:49 AM   #11
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Too funny!
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Old 10-05-2006, 06:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Marie
SC, you must have missed Papa's post about standing corrected He read the entire article. The Secret Service did their job, properly.
He returned to the spot about ten minutes later with another son, and that's when Secret Service agent Virgil Reichle handcuffed and arrested Howards for assaulting the vice president.

The charge was later reduced to harassment, then dismissed in Eagle County Court a month later.

I read the entire article too, JM. The Secret Service did a great job, if "punishing" outspoken critics is their job. They also did a great job on the accidental shooting incident, if shielding VIPs from local law enforcement is their job.

Are those their jobs?
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Old 10-05-2006, 06:14 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Harrison
He returned to the spot about ten minutes later with another son, and that's when Secret Service agent Virgil Reichle handcuffed and arrested Howards for assaulting the vice president.

The charge was later reduced to harassment, then dismissed in Eagle County Court a month later.

I read the entire article too, JM. The Secret Service did a great job, if "punishing" outspoken critics is their job. They also did a great job on the accidental shooting incident, if shielding VIPs from local law enforcement is their job.

Are those their jobs?
That article is obviously only one side of the story, Steve. You're passing judgement based on that, alone. And regardless, the guy filed a lawsuit for monetary damages based on "Loss of enjoyment of life." Come on. That should be a major red flag that he's less than trustworthy.
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Old 10-05-2006, 06:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robeiae
That article is obviously only one side of the story, Steve. You're passing judgement based on that, alone. And regardless, the guy filed a lawsuit for monetary damages based on "Loss of enjoyment of life." Come on. That should be a major red flag that he's less than trustworthy.
Or that he doesn't have a very good lawyer
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Old 10-05-2006, 06:18 AM   #15
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There are no good lawyers, only skilled and unskilled ones.

Oh, wait...there are some good ones, but they're at the bottom of the ocean...
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Old 10-05-2006, 06:22 AM   #16
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Steve, the guy said he touched Cheney's arm or shoulder, the first time. That was along w/ exercising his right of free speech. He left. He returned. Why? I'm guessing the Secret Service wanted to know, too. Their job is to protect the VP. How do they know this guy isn't a nutjob who didn't leave to get a gun? They're in an open area, remember? He'd already approached the VP and made physical contact w/ him, probably not a good idea since it more than likely was not for a photo op.

Again, they were doing their job. Btw, it has nothing to do w/ Cheney's hunting accident.
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Old 10-05-2006, 07:32 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Marie
Steve, the guy said he touched Cheney's arm or shoulder, the first time. That was along w/ exercising his right of free speech. He left. He returned. Why? I'm guessing the Secret Service wanted to know, too. Their job is to protect the VP. How do they know this guy isn't a nutjob who didn't leave to get a gun? They're in an open area, remember? He'd already approached the VP and made physical contact w/ him, probably not a good idea since it more than likely was not for a photo op.

Again, they were doing their job. Btw, it has nothing to do w/ Cheney's hunting accident.
I have no problem with them getting this guy away from the VP, or even taking some time to check him out afterwards. But he was arrested for assault and hauled off to jail. Just like some others (lady with t-shirt) who have had the audacity to speak out in the presence of royalty.

The reason I brought up the shooting incident was to show that the SS is there to protect more than just the physical safety of their charges, they also shield them from "problems". This guy was an embarassment, not a threat. When they determined this, they should have let him go. By dropping him off at the jail with a suggestion he be charged with harassment, they went outside the bounds of protection, and into the realm of payback.
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Old 10-05-2006, 07:42 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robeiae
That article is obviously only one side of the story, Steve. You're passing judgement based on that, alone. And regardless, the guy filed a lawsuit for monetary damages based on "Loss of enjoyment of life." Come on. That should be a major red flag that he's less than trustworthy.
And you're passing judgment on him because he filed a lawsuit.

Cripes, man. He was handcuffed in a mall, right in front of one of his sons, while the other was taking a piano lesson.

I guess he should have kept his mouth shut, huh?
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Old 10-05-2006, 07:57 AM   #19
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Harrison
And you're passing judgment on him because he filed a lawsuit.

Cripes, man. He was handcuffed in a mall, right in front of one of his sons, while the other was taking a piano lesson.

I guess he should have kept his mouth shut, huh?
He already made his point the first time. And, yes, he should have kept his mouth shut in front of his children. What kind of example is he showing them? That heckling solves problems? If he wanted to go heckle the VP, then he should have done it without the children in tow.

Coming back a second time indicates he's probably going to do more and perhaps this time get physical or worse. He deserved to get arrested and he deserves to make a fool of himself in court. Now he will have shown his children that if yelling and heckling doesn't work, you sue people for whatever silly, dumb reason you can come up with.

Regardless of your feelings about this administration, they are the VP and President of the United States of America. I may not agree with them, nor care for them, but I will respect the office and I will teach my children to respect the office. I will also teach them that by voting and becoming involved is the way to make changes. Not heckling and suing.
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Old 10-05-2006, 08:17 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Harrison
And you're passing judgment on him because he filed a lawsuit.

Cripes, man. He was handcuffed in a mall, right in front of one of his sons, while the other was taking a piano lesson.

I guess he should have kept his mouth shut, huh?
Damn straight I'm passing judgment because of the lawsuit, based on the specifics of that lawsuit.

The lawsuit is a fact. Your position is based on his version of events. That's the difference.
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Old 10-05-2006, 02:56 PM   #21
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Ah...
But if that had been Gore eight years ago and the guy had been complaining about Clinton, Fox News would have licked this up with a spoon.
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Old 10-05-2006, 04:26 PM   #22
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To arrest any citizen - no matter what lawsuits the individual filed after the fact - and remove him in the presence of his child in a public mall for speaking his beliefs (guaranteed to all Americans under that little thing called The Constitution) is blatantly wrong. Worse, it's symptomatic of the current administration which is fast whittling away the freedoms Americans have held dear for more than two centuries.

The Bush Administration resembles a dictatorship much more than it does the presidency of a democracy.

What concerns me is how many of my fellow Americans think that the guy who voiced his opinion on the Iraq debacle is the one at fault.

Sheesh!
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Old 10-05-2006, 04:36 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Harrison

I guess he should have kept his mouth shut, huh?
Exactly. I'm glad you finally understand.

His side of things:
He walked up quietly and said, "Excuse me, Mr. Vice President, sir, but I think your administration is doing a less than perfect job."
Walks away. Returns a few minutes later, smiling, with his child. And the Secret Service strong arm him off to jail.

The Secret Service side of things:
Strange, aggitated man storms up to the vice president and grabs his elbow: "You stink! You and Bush are war criminals! This country is the laughing stock of the world because of your evil criminal actions!"

Storms off only to return moments later, angry, gesturing wildly and pointing at the Vice President. Situation secured. Potential threat removed. Vice President safe.
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Old 10-05-2006, 05:04 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow_Ferret
Exactly. I'm glad you finally understand.

His side of things:
He walked up quietly and said, "Excuse me, Mr. Vice President, sir, but I think your administration is doing a less than perfect job."
Walks away. Returns a few minutes later, smiling, with his child. And the Secret Service strong arm him off to jail.

The Secret Service side of things:
Strange, aggitated man storms up to the vice president and grabs his elbow: "You stink! You and Bush are war criminals! This country is the laughing stock of the world because of your evil criminal actions!"

Storms off only to return moments later, angry, gesturing wildly and pointing at the Vice President. Situation secured. Potential threat removed. Vice President safe.
Where did you get this statement, SF? Show me a link, because every story I've found so far has him making a statement to the VP in a normal tone of voice.

The heightened voices, if there were any, seem to have come from the confrontation between him and agent Reichle when he returned to the area.

Now it's my turn to theorize:

After Howard makes his comment to Cheney and walks away, the Secret Service realize the VP is going to ream their butts later. When Howard approaches the area again, Reichle confronts him and starts chewing on his @$$. Harsh words are exchanged, and Howard ends up in cuffs.

The agents made a mistake by not being prescient enough to prevent an embarassing comment, then they punished the guy to make things right with the big guy.

As I said before, the end result of this seems to be an unnecessary detention. If Howard was an actual threat, he would have remained in Federal custody, instead of being dropped off at the local jail. They knew they couldn't make any charges stick, but they couldn't just let the guy get away scot-free after embarassing the VP.
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Old 10-05-2006, 05:51 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Harrison
Where did you get this statement, SF? Show me a link, because every story I've found so far has him making a statement to the VP in a normal tone of voice.
Every story out there is based on nothing but his version of events. To whit:
Quote:
There has been no specific comments about this case from the Secret Service or the White House.
They are saying it's litigation, so they won't respond at this time, which is the proper way to handle the case.

And this incident took place in June. Sure did take some time for it to become public. That wouldn't have anything to do with the lawsuit seeking damages for "loss of enjoyment of life," would it?

I may seem cynical, but those of you accepting this story at face value certainly seem naive.

Bill Clinton had an engagement to promote his new book at my favorite indy bookstore here in Miami when it was released. Several people (two, actually) I know went to the event with the expressed intent to "say something to him" (I told them that I thought they were acting like idiots). The Secret Service didn't let them anywhere Clinton and escorted them off the property. Yes, I was there. They didn't actually do anything, didn't say anything, but I think the Secret Service could tell they were antagonistic. I'm certain if either had managed to place a hand on Clinton, they would have taken a ride. All that said, neither believed they had lost their right to free speech, and I don't believe they did, either.

And anyway you slice it, putting your hand on someone requires an invitation. End of story. If I walked up to Hilary Clinton while she was having dinner, grabbed her arm and told her what I thought of her, where do you suppose I would be heading in the next few minutes? In this day and age, it is absolutely ludicrous to expect acts like these to go unnoticed. And as had been said and as the guy admits, he came back. Now it all may have been innocuous, but if you guys think the Secret Service is goung to take that risk, you're clueless. Sorry.

This has zero to do with Bush or his policies--the Secret Service has been running their own show for quite some time and does what it determines to be the safest course of action. You guys realize that the Secret Service agent who made the arrestmight have voted against Bush, right? He might despise both Bush and Cheney. He's not a political appointee.

But it is unfortunately clear here that ideological blinders are hard to remove. I suggest trying harder.
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