Ringling Brothers to Stop Elephant Acts - In 2018.

cornflake · Mar 5, 2015

On the one hand, yay, fuckers will apparently stop abusing elephants, and given their size, reach and identification with 'circus,' maybe move to help redefine the idea that it's perfectly fine to abuse and use animals in this manner.

On the other hand, they need three years to do this? My flaky butt. Find a goddamn sanctuary or six if the one they have can't take the elephants today, and stop this hideous crap now. Now.

Ringling does not, of course, give half a crap about the actual animals, if anyone was wondering, as evidenced by their apparent continued devotion to other animal acts, like the ones involving large jungle cats and whips, and these quotes -

Alana Feld, the company's executive vice president, was quoted by The Associated Press as attributing the decision to "a mood shift among our consumers."

"This was not an easy decision for the Feld family to arrive at," Steve Payne, the vice president of communications for Feld Entertainment, tells NPR's Jackie Northam. "It's been a long, heartfelt thought process, but ... the family decided that removing the elephants from the circus units and bringing them to the Center for Elephant Conservation was in the best interest of the company and, most importantly, the elephants."

veinglory · Mar 5, 2015

They have already transferred most of them. If moving the other 14 to the one reputable elephant sanctuary in the US takes a little longer, I think that is better than handing them out to whoever else might take them.

cornflake · Mar 5, 2015

I have literally zero belief, not even a shadow of a shadow of a niggling thought, that the delay is about anything at all other than milking 'the last chance to see the famous Ringling Bros. elephants.'

The sanctuary they're sending them to, to begin with, is partially funded by them.

There are many reputable sanctuaries (not in any way partnered with circuses), around the world that I'd wager could take the elephants before three years from now, especially with a donation for their care.

regdog · Mar 5, 2015

I'm glad they are being retired and want them to go to safe place where they can live the rest of their lives in well deserved safety.

atombaby · Mar 5, 2015

Yeah. If they really cared about their elephants, they would have placed them in sanctuary yesterday, the poor things. Aside from my dislike for anything circus related, I can't stomach what they make their animals do. Feats are amazing but it doesn't make me happy. Do the animals truly enjoy putting on a show and traveling constantly? Do they?

cornflake · Mar 5, 2015

atombaby said:
Yeah. If they really cared about their elephants, they would have placed them in sanctuary yesterday, the poor things. Aside from my dislike for anything circus related, I can't stomach what they make their animals do. Feats are amazing but it doesn't make me happy. Do the animals truly enjoy putting on a show and traveling constantly? Do they?

No.

There are tons of other things, including a lot of video, and other pretty unassailable evidence of abuses, but much of it is from animal rights orgs, so I looked for a less-charged source.

It also mentions their fab sanctuary, btw, which has seen a number of unexplained deaths. I'm saying we send them to a real sanctuary.

Also, frankly, if elephants just loved being held captive at the circus, puttin' on a show, they'd probably not go stomping over their trainers, and into the crowd, as often as they do. There are plenty of examples of this behaviour, in the U.S. and around the world. If someone really wants, I'll make a big list, as I enjoy such stories, but there are plenty to be found online.

atombaby · Mar 5, 2015

cornflake said:
No.

There are tons of other things, including a lot of video, and other pretty unassailable evidence of abuses, but much of it is from animal rights orgs, so I looked for a less-charged source.

It also mentions their fab sanctuary, btw, which has seen a number of unexplained deaths. I'm saying we send them to a real sanctuary.

Also, frankly, if elephants just loved being held captive at the circus, puttin' on a show, they'd probably not go stomping over their trainers, and into the crowd, as often as they do. There are plenty of examples of this behaviour, in the U.S. and around the world. If someone really wants, I'll make a big list, as I enjoy such stories, but there are plenty to be found online.

I only asked (and I'm in total agreement with you), because I had seen a documentary on Lipizzaner horses (not the ones in circuses) and the horses appeared to be in such unity with their human partners, as well as enjoying themselves. And these horses are treated like kings and queens.

This is what bothers me: I don't see circus animals having a good time, loving their owners, the environment they have to live in is unfit, and the training and lifestyle they have to lead for most of their lives is just, well it makes me so sad.

The sanctuary is unfit, too? Being that it's a Ringling-funded sanctuary, that doesn't surprise me.

cornflake · Mar 5, 2015

atombaby said:
I only asked (and I'm in total agreement with you), because I had seen a documentary on Lipizzaner horses (not the ones in circuses) and the horses appeared to be in such unity with their human partners, as well as enjoying themselves. And these horses are treated like kings and queens.

This is what bothers me: I don't see circus animals having a good time, loving their owners, the environment they have to live in is unfit, and the training and lifestyle they have to lead for most of their lives is just, well it makes me so sad.

The sanctuary is unfit, too? Being that it's a Ringling-funded sanctuary, that doesn't surprise me.

Sorry if I came off snarky or anything - that wasn't how I meant that at all. Directed at you. Directed at the circus freaks, absolutely, heh.

It's just so angering.

There are, if you're interested and have a strong stomach, just tons of videos of circus animals, taken undercover, that show they're clearly not having a good time.

I know some people involved in equine events - not the dancing horse thing, more traditional show jumping - and you could put hidden cameras all over, tape 24/7, and there'd be not a minute of untoward footage. I don't know that it's true of everyone involved with horses, obviously, and the more for profit something is, the warier I am (horse racing, for instance, I think is seriously suspect), but the people I know, like the ones you saw, truly love their horses, same as they love their dogs, cats, and children, and treat them accordingly. The horses are trained, with positive reinforcement and patience, same as dogs and children, have lots of space to roam, and choose. They're trained, but if they don't want to go in the ring, they can make that clear and that's that, maybe it's just the day for a carrot and a nap.

The people who abuse the elephants and other animals in circuses don't feel this way, as evidenced by plenty of video. The animals are commodities, not beings.

atombaby · Mar 5, 2015

cornflake said:
Sorry if I came off snarky or anything - that wasn't how I meant that at all. Directed at you. Directed at the circus freaks, absolutely, heh.

It's just so angering.

There are, if you're interested and have a strong stomach, just tons of videos of circus animals, taken undercover, that show they're clearly not having a good time.

I know some people involved in equine events - not the dancing horse thing, more traditional show jumping - and you could put hidden cameras all over, tape 24/7, and there'd be not a minute of untoward footage. I don't know that it's true of everyone involved with horses, obviously, and the more for profit something is, the warier I am (horse racing, for instance, I think is seriously suspect), but the people I know, like the ones you saw, truly love their horses, same as they love their dogs, cats, and children, and treat them accordingly. The horses are trained, with positive reinforcement and patience, same as dogs and children, have lots of space to roam, and choose. They're trained, but if they don't want to go in the ring, they can make that clear and that's that, maybe it's just the day for a carrot and a nap.

The people who abuse the elephants and other animals in circuses don't feel this way, as evidenced by plenty of video. The animals are commodities, not beings.

No need to apologize! You didn't come off snarky at all.

I absolutely agree that money and greed play the biggest part in all of this. To me, it's a total perversion of nature.

Honestly, I couldn't watch those videos, not because of ignorance but because I would be so beyond disturbed. Humans are cruel enough to each other, why oh why would someone willingly and gladly do such awful things to an innocent creature. There is no love or care there. It's only about greed, control, and power.

Rufus Coppertop · Mar 7, 2015

This is worth a look.

http://www.sunnyskyz.com/happy-vide...phants-But-He-Never-Expected-Them-To-Do-This-

One of the commenters alleges the elephant is being forced to perform. I can't quite see that myself and I don't know why anyone would assume that an elephant would need to be forced to do this.

Ringling Brothers to Stop Elephant Acts - In 2018.

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

veinglory

volitare nequeo

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

regdog

The Scavengers

atombaby

nice & cynical

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

atombaby

nice & cynical

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

atombaby

nice & cynical

Rufus Coppertop