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Old 08-11-2013, 01:45 AM   #1
GEspindar
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Hi everyone. I'm trying to find out if twgwc.com is everything it seems to be. It looks pretty cool and only asks for a sample of work. Has anyone come cross it and can advise?
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Old 08-11-2013, 01:57 AM   #2
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Gigantic red flags waving everywhere I look.

Among the worst: "TWGWC retains absolute discretion to refer potentially successful works to its affiliates, associates and associated web sites for consideration of funding or any form of sponsorship or financial assistance intended to reward the Customer's creative effort."

So it seems they post your submitted work on their website, using up first publication rights, and then may or may not decide to point out how swell it is to their unnamed associates and affiliates, who might then decide whether to give you any funding to complete it.

Plus the website design is appallingly difficult to read. The inability to create a good website, or to realize you haven't and hire someone who can, doesn't bode well, either.

So I would give this organization a pass.

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Old 08-11-2013, 03:37 AM   #3
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Old 08-11-2013, 04:05 AM   #4
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Whatever works you do decide to submit, know that on TWGWC you are and will remain anonymous to the world, because we have no need of reputations. Everything that is submitted to TWGWC will be assessed by the words on the page and all writers will benefit, whether already 'successful' and published...or someone sitting at home or at work wondering whether they have what it takes to be a writer...but with no way to know. Send it out to a publisher if you think it will help...and good luck with that. Self publish if you want...and good luck with that too! Send it to a global web publishing site and hope someone will see it...again, good luck with that! Or send it to TWGWC for consideration, be respected as a writer (anonymously unless you decide to change your status) and get ready for your words to fly!
Be rewarded.
We can't say too much right now about who we are and what you stand to win (you will find out soon enough) but just know that it will be exciting and rewarding for many of you.

Yep. Uh-hunh.

YADS at best.

If you want to know if you have what it takes to be a writer, submit your best works to the best markets in strict accordance with their guidelines.
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Old 08-12-2013, 01:59 AM   #5
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Many thanks and duly noted. I might submit anyway as there dont see to be any downsides with just a sample being submitted and why turn my back on possible funding which is near impossible to find!?
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Old 08-12-2013, 02:53 AM   #6
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Before I entered I would verify what the possible funding or prizes might be. Will that contest be more effective than starting a Kickstarter campaign? The publisher/contest owner's coy allusions to 'it will all be wonderful, just trust us!' do not make adequate disclosure for what appears right now to be little more than just another display site.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:25 AM   #7
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"Funding" is not impossible to find. There are publishers out there everywhere, from the big to the small, but if they're legit publishing companies (and you have work that's publishable) then you will get paid. There is also always the self-publishing option.

I find it curious that TWGWC is a bit down on both those avenues:

Quote:
Iím an established or published author, whatís in it for me?

The financial returns that you are properly entitled to, free from the costs (yes costs) and pressures of publishers, editors and industry...thatís assuming that you work ever gets read...these people are just soooooo busy!
I'll ignore the typo and the unprofessional behavior and just say they don't elaborate on what these "costs" are so I'm a bit in the dark as to why I should hate publishing companies so much.

As for self publishing:

Quote:
Iím a nobody with a dream and I write mainly for myself. What can you offer me? Maybe Iíll just self publish?

Then donít submit, but youíll never know if you are any good, will you? Besides, nobody writes for themselves, writers write to be heard! Of course, feel free to self publish, but good luck getting any real interest. Then again, if you do it will probably be from a publisher, so even if you win, you will probably lose! Or, we offer you the chance to be financially independent as a writer...connected to all your readers...at NO COST to you!
Seriously, what do these people have against publishers? There is something sketchy about that much vitriol!

I probably would have found this whole TWGWC thing much more interesting if they weren't so inexplicably dismissive of two very different platforms that that done well for many, many people. You can have a brilliant new idea, but don't go about it by disparaging everything else out there. Well, I would have found it interesting, but I still wouldn't have touched it with a 10 foot pole because they're not being upfront about who is funding this thing. But I'm not a very trusting person.

They also admit that they are publishing your work:

Quote:
TWGWC reserves the right to vary the placement of any and all submitted works within a title or website and to change the format of any presentation (including changing colour to black and white). TWGWC will not be liable for any loss or damage incurred by a Customer arising from any failure to publish submitted works in accordance with a Customerís request.
Added emphasis mine.

Once your work is published for the world to see on this site, that's it - it's published. Your first rights are gone. You're going to have a hard time finding a publishing company to publish it after that. But oh, that's right! Publishing companies are evil!

I wish you the best of luck, GEspindar. I hope for your sake this is a wonderful thing, but we shall see.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:56 AM   #8
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From the About Us section:
Quote:
We can't say too much about who we are at TWGWC and how it will revolutionise the publishing industry...but we will, and very soon, once we achieve our global quota of submissions that will enable us to progress to the exciting next stage.[...]
Rest assured that we are energetic professionals with extensive experience who want only to elevate writers to their rightful place in the broader community, not just the industry.
From the FAQ:
Quote:
What happens on 9th November 2013?
Sorry, can’t tell you yet! But know that your life as a writer may never be quite the same! Good luck!
It's-seekret-we-can't-tell-you-right-now-but-trust-us-we're-awesome kind of message like the above is a personal turn off. I also find any your life will change statement exaggerated and used-car-salesman-y.

I found it even more icky when I discovered two users by the names of "G Espindar" and "Dar Jus" (warning: YouTube will probably autoplay) have been leaving spammy comments on YouTube. There's also a comment I consider suspicious on the Sydney Writers' Festival's Facebook.
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Old 08-12-2013, 04:32 AM   #9
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This is the first paragraph of their "about us":

Quote:
We can't say too much about who we are at TWGWC and how it will revolutionise the publishing industry...but we will, and very soon, once we achieve our global quota of submissions that will enable us to progress to the exciting next stage.
(Bolding mine.)
The bolded part, I'm sure I've seen that before. And I'm pretty sure it was in connection with some scam that was talked about either here or on Writer Beware. Drives me nuts that I cant remember where I saw it. Hope someone recognizes it, and can help with finding out where it's from. Especially since that might give a clue as to the identity of those behind this.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:04 AM   #10
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...it will revolutionise the publishing industry.
Yep. Uh-hunh. Right.

Start the dead-pool now.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:57 AM   #11
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Start the dead-pool now.
Not sure it qualifies as a dead-pool bet, but the cynical side of me would not be surprised if these people just disappear, taking an e-mail list of authors with them...
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:17 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald View Post
Yep. Uh-hunh.

YADS at best.

If you want to know if you have what it takes to be a writer, submit your best works to the best markets in strict accordance with their guidelines.
What does YADs mean?
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:21 AM   #13
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YADS = Yet Another Display Site
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JALynn View Post
"Funding" is not impossible to find. There are publishers out there everywhere, from the big to the small, but if they're legit publishing companies (and you have work that's publishable) then you will get paid. There is also always the self-publishing option.

I find it curious that TWGWC is a bit down on both those avenues:

I'll ignore the typo and the unprofessional behavior and just say they don't elaborate on what these "costs" are so I'm a bit in the dark as to why I should hate publishing companies so much.

As for self publishing:

Seriously, what do these people have against publishers? There is something sketchy about that much vitriol!

I probably would have found this whole TWGWC thing much more interesting if they weren't so inexplicably dismissive of two very different platforms that that done well for many, many people. You can have a brilliant new idea, but don't go about it by disparaging everything else out there. Well, I would have found it interesting, but I still wouldn't have touched it with a 10 foot pole because they're not being upfront about who is funding this thing. But I'm not a very trusting person.

They also admit that they are publishing your work:

Added emphasis mine.

Once your work is published for the world to see on this site, that's it - it's published. Your first rights are gone. You're going to have a hard time finding a publishing company to publish it after that. But oh, that's right! Publishing companies are evil!

I wish you the best of luck, GEspindar. I hope for your sake this is a wonderful thing, but we shall see.
There's also another place on the site where they say "you can try sending it out to publishers, if you think it will help, and good luck with that. Or you can try self publishing and good luck with that too, or send it to us and get the real rewards you deserve."
Which they won't disclose. What the.......? They also disparage a third thing and I don't even know what it is. " Or try sending it out to a 'global web publishing' site and good luck with that." They aren't calling themselves a "global web publishing site" they are saying that's another place where a writer will have no luck. Whatever it is.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:21 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by GEspindar View Post
Many thanks and duly noted. I might submit anyway as there dont see to be any downsides with just a sample being submitted and why turn my back on possible funding which is near impossible to find!?
The big downside has already been pointed out: send your work in here and it will be published online, using up your first rights and preventing you from publishing it in many other, possibly more lucrative and/or widely read, venues.

You don't need funding to get a trade publishing deal: just a good book. And many of AW's members have self published for next to nothing.

And rather than thinking of downsides, why don't you look for positive things this site could do for you and your work? They're not giving much away; and I can't think of any display sites which have led to any real success for many of the people whose work they hosted. Sure, a few people have found success that way: but the odds are generally less than or equal to success gained from submitting in the usual way.

If you're determined to submit, at least wait until after they reveal what's behind their November deadline. But if you're not yet decided, I'd advise you not to bother. You're unlikely to get much out of it, and have much to lose.
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Old 08-12-2013, 01:04 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
T

You don't need funding to get a trade publishing deal: just a good book. And many of AW's members have self published for next to nothing.

.
Yes talk of funding to get a book deal is completely bizarre and concerns me.
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:57 AM   #17
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once we achieve our global quota of submissions that will enable us to progress to the exciting next stage.
Is it just me or does that sound like propaganda for some sort of world-wide dystopian lottery? You know, the kind that hides a horrible secret about the seemingly ideal society. I can almost hear the cheerful automated female voice now....
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:08 PM   #18
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The other thing that concerns me is that all submissions will remain anonymous--which means you won't even have public claim of your work, even though it's published. So, if someone does copy it off that site and puts it on theirs--how can you issue a cease and desist when it's really your property?

I don't like that.
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Old 08-14-2013, 06:09 AM   #19
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Some of the things in the FAQ bother me. You don't have to submit the whole work in some cases, they're claiming the work doesn't have to be edited, you can submit work in any language, etc. And then the part about format says "In our view, real talent should not be inhibited unduly by structure. If you have something to say, then put in onto the page in whatever form you desire."

Does that mean I could submit my novel, Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet, in the Comic Sans MS font with purple letters?

I'm also annoyed by their name. Really? The World's Greatest Writing Competition? Sorry, I'd rather get a Hugo or Pulitzer or RITA.
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:13 AM   #20
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:31 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnneMarble View Post
Some of the things in the FAQ bother me. You don't have to submit the whole work in some cases, they're claiming the work doesn't have to be edited, you can submit work in any language, etc. And then the part about format says "In our view, real talent should not be inhibited unduly by structure. If you have something to say, then put in onto the page in whatever form you desire."

Does that mean I could submit my novel, Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet, in the Comic Sans MS font with purple letters?

I'm also annoyed by their name. Really? The World's Greatest Writing Competition? Sorry, I'd rather get a Hugo or Pulitzer or RITA.
And who does this remind you of? Vanity presses who take anything because their business model is making money from those who submit, not from selling their work on and taking a percentage, so they accept anything?
Most places with any kind of genuine interest in selling books, and making money from selling books, have specific types of texts they are looking for.
This reads like someone who wants to make a profit somehow from those who submit?
Well lets hope I'm wrong.
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:14 AM   #22
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This is just bizarre. It almost reads like some elaborate phishing scheme.

Things I don't like, from the Terms and Conditions:

"Once submitted, no works can be withdrawn by any Customer from TWGWC or its associated web sites without the agreement of TWGWC."
(So if you want your work off the site, it may be tough to accomplish that.)

"For contractual purposes, you (a) consent to receive communications from TWGWC or its associated sites in an electronic form;"
(Will your email address be sold to spammers?)

"Solely to enable TWGWC to use the information you supply us with, so that we are not violating any rights you might have in that information, you agree to grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sub-licensable (through multiple tiers) right to do and authorise the doing of all acts comprised in the copyright and to exercise the publicity, and database rights (but no other rights) you have in Your Information, in any media now known or not currently known, with respect to Your Information."
(Sites that host user content need this kind of language in order to display the content, but "all acts comprised in the copyright" seems a good deal more sweeping than necessary--might it, for instance, enable the creation of derivative works? Also, they take database rights, so once you post your work on TWGWC, it'll never come off. ["Your Information" is defined as all user content, including any writing that's posted on the site.])

"These terms and conditions are governed in all respects by the laws of Australia and any action arising under them or in any way connected with the TWGWC service may be brought only in a court in Australia, subject to any law which is expressly inconsistent with this."
(If you're from a country other than Australia and have a problem with this site, it will be a pain in your butt if you want to bring any sort of legal action. This isn't a trivial concern, given that we currently have zero idea of what TWGWC is and does.)

- Victoria
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:48 PM   #23
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I really don't like the TOS page, but most of the language is common on a lot websites out there. I do think that someone with ill intent could do some damage though.

I was really curious about was the "sub-licensable (through multiple tiers)" part so I did some searching and came up with a blog post from 2009 What Does TOS Mean Anyway?

About sub-licensable (through multiple tiers): "You agree the company may license its rights to use your works to third parties; and they may license their rights to use your works; and so on." (Abuse of semicolons theirs.)

Another interesting point:

Royalty-free: "the company does not need to pay you royalties in connection with use of your works."

I thought that was pretty self-explanatory, but I just wanted to point it out.

Again, the TOS language is pretty standard for a lot of websites, but it still creeps me out.
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Old 08-14-2013, 03:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gingerwoman View Post
And who does this remind you of? Vanity presses who take anything because their business model is making money from those who submit, not from selling their work on and taking a percentage, so they accept anything?
It gave me an Atlanta Nights flashbqck. Scarrry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gingerwoman View Post
AWell lets hope I'm wrong.
You never know. They might just be clueless. Other sites used guidelines (and clauses) like that, so they decided that means that must be how the publishing industry works. So they plan on changing the publishing industry by borrowing concepts from other companies that promised the same thing.

Or maybe they're really a vanity press in a clever newish disguise. "Congratulations! The two-and-a-half chapters of your puce novel in verse won. Now you can publish through us..." They'll probably have special deals and everything.
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Old 08-14-2013, 03:50 PM   #25
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Here's the part that made me go

Quote:
We require no sensitive information and will never ask you for your banking details.
Are there supposedly legitimate writing contests that do ask for your bank account information? Puleeze!

It's the unsaid stuff that makes me start looking for the knife behind their back.

Not only pass, but RUN!
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