Weird Week.

[Kaiser-Kun]

The Pope calls it quits on Monday, North Korea makes a successful underground nuclear test on Tuesday, and an asteroid is gonna come pretty close next Friday.

Place your bets on Wednesday and Thursday?

[Alessandra Kelley]

Originally Posted by Kaiser-Kun

The Pope calls it quits on Monday, North Korea makes a successful underground nuclear test on Tuesday, and an asteroid is gonna come pretty close next Friday.

Place your bets on Wednesday and Thursday?

<crankypants derail>

IiRC, the last time there was a week like this, the then-Pope visited Cuba for the first time in nearly forty years, the Unabomber pled guilty, and the beef industry sued Oprah because they said she was using the phony threat of mad cow disease to hurt them. In Chicago none of these stories were worth mentioning until page forty because they were not the vital issue of the details of Monica Lewinsky's dress, which solidly took up the front page and first several dozen pages of the paper.

</crankypants derail>

We live in interesting times.

[muravyets]

I'd say all these events are omens indicating that now is the time to get into the astrology racket.

[Cyia]

Place your bets on Wednesday and Thursday?

I predict that next Thursday is my birthday and that at least 1 cable channel will be playing Armageddon, Deep Impact, or both next week in honor of the asteroid.

[muravyets]

Originally Posted by Cyia

I predict that next Thursday is my birthday and that at least 1 cable channel will be playing Armageddon, Deep Impact, or both next week in honor of the asteroid.

Happy birthday! (In case I can't say it later.)

[GeorgeK]

I seem to remember an apocalyptic prophesy written by a medieval saint that the final tribulation would begin at the end of the days of the 111 th pope and would be heralded by a comet and then the antichrist would appear

[muravyets]

Well, there we go, then.

In all seriousness, aside from really religious believers, is anyone worried about the End Times? I mean, not only does anyone think the predicted events might really happen, but does anyone really worry much about their effect?

I find it hard to worry about them, even when I do consider them really happening.

[Sarpedon]

An asteroid is not a comet, but there is a nice comet coming up, I think.

End of the world prophesies are popular among idiots and journalists. No matter how stupid your prophesy is, you can always find someone who will drink the Kool-aide.

[GeorgeK]

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

An asteroid is not a comet, but there is a nice comet coming up, I think.

In the middle ages I don't think that they made a distinction

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

End of the world prophesies are popular among idiots and journalists. No matter how stupid your prophesy is, you can always find someone who will drink the Kool-aide.

That seems a rather disrespectful view of many religions since most if not all have some version of some sort of apocalypse


Looks like among others it was St Malachy

[Sarpedon]

In the middle ages I don't think that they made a distinction

And if the accuracy of a prophesy is limited by the knowledge of the person making it, in what way is it a 'prophesy?' Isn't a prophesy by definition knowledge that a person would not otherwise have access to?

That seems a rather disrespectful view of many religions since most if not all have some version of some sort of apocalypse

How many failed apocalypses and end time prophesies do I have to witness before I am allowed to treat them as rubbish and the people who believe in them fools? I am required to respect people's right to believe as they wish, and I do. I am not required to act as if their beliefs aren't stupid.

The fact that all religions have them means nothing other than the universality of crazy people who misinterpret their hallucinations for prophesy, and gullible people who believe them. Nowadays we have drugs for the first, but not the second.

[Kaiser-Kun]

Originally Posted by muravyets

In all seriousness, aside from really religious believers, is anyone worried about the End Times? I mean, not only does anyone think the predicted events might really happen, but does anyone really worry much about their effect?

Not really. If an apocalypse happens in my lifetime, either I die instantly or survive and become king.

[Zoombie]

See, it only gets to qualify as a weird week if magic comes back A La Shadowrun or we have first contact.

[clintl]

Originally Posted by GeorgeK

In the middle ages I don't think that they made a distinction
That seems a rather disrespectful view of many religions since most if not all have some version of some sort of apocalypse


Looks like among others it was St Malachy

They didn't know asteroids existed in the Middle Ages.

[GeorgeK]

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

And if the accuracy of a prophesy is limited by the knowledge of the person making it, in what way is it a 'prophesy?' Isn't a prophesy by definition knowledge that a person would not otherwise have access to?

It's also limited by the transriptionists, the translators and editors and interpretors. St Malachy didn't write in modern American English. To assume that all intermediaries in between are and must be infallible is I hope not what you are trying to argue. My classical Latin dictionaries do not distinguish between comets and asteroids. I don't know about Medieval Latin. Eskimoes have something like 17 different words for snow. We don't. Things definitely get lost in translation even between generations using the same language. To insist that they can't is well beyond the strangest religious belief that I've read.

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

How many failed apocalypses and end time prophesies do I have to witness before I am allowed to treat them as rubbish and the people who believe in them fools?

You only have to be wrong once and pretty much all scientists and all religious agree that at some point the world will end. Speculation as to how and when is the real question, not the question of if.

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

I am required to respect people's right to believe as they wish, and I do. I am not required to act as if their beliefs aren't stupid.

Were you to simply say, "Whatever, I don't believe it," and even wear a T-shirt with the slogan or tattoo it to your head, that would be fine, but for you to insist that anyone who does not agree with you must therefore be an idiot is simply narcissism

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

The fact that all religions have them means nothing other than the universality of crazy people who misinterpret their hallucinations for prophesy, and gullible people who believe them. Nowadays we have drugs for the first, but not the second.

Scientists too speculate and theorize about the end of the world. Probably almost if not all of them will be wrong too. How is their speculation better if just as many will be wrong?

[GeorgeK]

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

End of the world prophesies are popular among idiots and journalists. No matter how stupid your prophesy is, you can always find someone who will drink the Kool-aide.

You do realize that, "drinking the Kool-Aide," refers to the Jonestown Massacre? You seem to be equating all religions with a suicide cult that murdered their own children. That's very much a part not representing the whole fallacy.

[Kaiser-Kun]

Originally Posted by GeorgeK

Eskimoes have something like 17 different words for snow.

Eskimos? Pfft, they're only a legend, like the boogeyman or Michael Jackson.

[GeorgeK]

Originally Posted by Kaiser-Kun

Eskimos? Pfft, they're only a legend, like the boogeyman or Michael Jackson.

I'm sorry. Did I say Eskimoes? I meant to say Leprechauns.

[Shakesbear]

I am old. BUT I can remember with a strange clarity a man I used to see in a local shopping area when I was about 12/3 (many many many years ago). He wandered about adorned with a sandwich board that had written on it in garish red and yellow letters the words "The End of the World is Nigh". I had to ask my mum what "Nigh" meant. She said it meant soon. I was worried and she re-assured me that it was not going to happen. I asked her how she knew. "I've just got the chicken for Sabbath lunch!" was her reply. So, there you go - go out and get a chicken for lunch and avoid the end of the world.

[Kaiser-Kun]

Originally Posted by Shakesbear

So, there you go - go out and get a chicken for lunch and avoid the end of the world.

Well my fiancée won't let me die before we finish paying the bills for our future wedding. I'm sure she's willing to roundhouse-kick any asteroid that comes too near before then.

[Shakesbear]

Ahh. I hope you are planning a reception with a chicken dish as the focal point!

[GeorgeK]

http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...nutes-disaster

The asteroid in question...If it's supposed to get within 17K miles, what will that do to it's trajectory? Anyone seen any sciencey speculation? I was just thinking about Apophis.

[Sarpedon]

Of course I agree that the world will end someday. But predicting something that is inevitable doesn't make you a prophet. Predicting something within certain parameters makes you a prophet. So far, every single one has failed. Just because one day, one of them might be correct doesn't mean that I should treat them as anything other than con-men.

And yes, my choice of words was deliberate. People sell their belongings, quit their jobs, move across the world, and yes, even commit suicide because of these prophesies. I call someone who does these things because he thinks the world is ending either crazy or stupid. Its not about whether they disagree with me, its about whether they give more credence to known facts about the universe or the ravings of some syphilitic monk living in the era when they thought that ringing church bells could prevent thunderstorms.

It's a popular fad among the ignorant these days that facts are just opinions, and that all opinions are equal. Sorry. There is a real world that doesn't care about your opinion. If your opinion runs counter to the facts, you are wrong, period. If you refuse to change your opinion when shown the facts, you are stupid, period. It isn't just me saying this.

Sure scientists are wrong sometimes. But they aren't wrong 100% of the time, like these "prophets" have proven to be. Treating them as if they are just as good as the scientists because some scientists are wrong sometimes is foolishness. Its that kind of thinking that gives us Alternative Medicine, Anti-Vaccination, Intelligent Design, Climate Change Deniers, Birthers, Truthers, etc. These things aren't just stupid, they are dishonest. It is absolutely dishonest to portray these points of view as just as good as the alternative.

This sort of stupidity is a luxury that our rich, comfortable society can easily afford. But you don't have to be a prophet to predict that the day will come when we will face a crisis that no amount of spin or denial can cover up, and people who can't adapt their opinion to match the facts will pay the price.

And by the way, the trajectory models correct for gravity. I think I will trust the people who were able to put a rover on mars within meters of where they were aiming, instead of the medieval guy who thought that the sun went around the earth. You are free to make your own choice, but don't try to pretend that the one is just as good as the other.

[Maxx]

Originally Posted by GeorgeK

That seems a rather disrespectful view of many religions since most if not all have some version of some sort of apocalypse

Love the apocalypse, hate the apopletic. Like that Pope-Elect Stephen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope-elect_Stephen

[Chasing the Horizon]

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

The fact that all religions have them means nothing other than the universality of crazy people who misinterpret their hallucinations for prophesy, and gullible people who believe them.

Um, not ALL religions have specific beliefs regarding an apocalypse or end to the world. Older religions tended to take a more circular view of the world (old eras end, new eras begin, and on it goes). The texts for my religion never really go into the end of the world at all.

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

Its that kind of thinking that gives us Alternative Medicine, Anti-Vaccination, Intelligent Design, Climate Change Deniers, Birthers, Truthers, etc. These things aren't just stupid, they are dishonest. It is absolutely dishonest to portray these points of view as just as good as the alternative.

I really resent alternative medicine being grouped with the rest of that crap. There are many forms of medicine judged alternative by the medical establishment and insurance companies which work very well. One of the insurance companies my father sells for has even started covering acupuncture because they realized how much money it could save them, and I've been using herbal treatment for my ADD for years instead of dangerous, addictive, expensive drugs. Of course, the people making billions off the dangerous, expensive drugs have a vested interest in getting people to believe that herbal medicine belongs grouped with Creationism.

It's stupid to believe blindly in prophecy *or* science. I take the simple route and believe in what I can see. So I'll believe the world is ending when I see it happening.

[GeorgeK]

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

End of the world prophesies are popular among idiots and journalists. No matter how stupid your prophesy is, you can always find someone who will drink the Kool-aide.

Something can be popular simply because it is fun. I like a good apocalypse story, be it Ragnarok, Biblical or Mount Doom. Finding historical references in prophesies that match modern times is like easter eggs in video games. They're fun. That doesn't mean that people who enjoy that literature are going to murder their children and commit suicide. To equate the two is not in touch with reality since historically few do such things.

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

Of course I agree that the world will end someday. But predicting something that is inevitable doesn't make you a prophet. Predicting something within certain parameters makes you a prophet. So far, every single one has failed.

No, so far every prediction of the end of the world has either failed or has yet to pass. That's not the same as all prophesies. It is a small subset. There are many other prophesies regarding non-apocaplyptic events that some believe have come to pass. There are even prophesies of global warming from hundreds of years ago. Just because the wording might be vague in most and you chose a different interpretation does not make you right.

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

Just because one day, one of them might be correct doesn't mean that I should treat them as anything other than con-men.

But to insist that everyone else who enjoys reading about them is an idiot is most certainly disrespectful.

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

And yes, my choice of words was deliberate.

That much is obvious

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

People sell their belongings, quit their jobs, move across the world, and yes, even commit suicide because of these prophesies.

by far the vast majority do not do such things

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

I call someone who does these things because he thinks the world is ending either crazy or stupid.

That's different than what you originally said

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

Its not about whether they disagree with me, its about whether they give more credence to known facts about the universe or the ravings of some syphilitic monk living in the era when they thought that ringing church bells could prevent thunderstorms.

I'd like to see a VDRL titer on whatever monk you've prophesized as having had syphilis

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

It's a popular fad among the ignorant these days that facts are just opinions, and that all opinions are equal.

There are also people who insist that their opinions are facts.

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

Sorry. There is a real world that doesn't care about your opinion. If your opinion runs counter to the facts, you are wrong, period. If you refuse to change your opinion when shown the facts, you are stupid, period. It isn't just me saying this.

I remember not too long ago a significant preponderance of people accepting as fact that vaccines cause autism. A few decades before that there was an acceptance that silicone implants cause autoimmune diseases. go further back and it was accepted that the world was flat. A fact is not always a fact. A good scientist doesn't take on faith that all facts are facts.

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

Sure scientists are wrong sometimes. But they aren't wrong 100% of the time, like these "prophets" have proven to be.

Actually if you go back in time almost all scientists eventually get proven to be wrong. We've made advances sure, but still there's a LOT wrong. The saying in Medical school is taht within 10 years half of what they taught you will have been proven to be wrong and the individual physician's job is to figure out which half.

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

Treating them as if they are just as good as the scientists because some scientists are wrong sometimes is foolishness.

Again, you are conflating some and all

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

Its that kind of thinking that gives us Alternative Medicine, Anti-Vaccination, Intelligent Design, Climate Change Deniers, Birthers, Truthers, etc. These things aren't just stupid, they are dishonest. It is absolutely dishonest to portray these points of view as just as good as the alternative.

Those are all different topics that should not be lumped together with simply enjoying a good apocalypse story.

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

This sort of stupidity is a luxury that our rich, comfortable society can easily afford. But you don't have to be a prophet to predict that the day will come when we will face a crisis that no amount of spin or denial can cover up, and people who can't adapt their opinion to match the facts will pay the price.

that much is consistently shown throughout history

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

And by the way, the trajectory models correct for gravity.

do you have a reference?

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

I think I will trust the people who were able to put a rover on mars within meters of where they were aiming, instead of the medieval guy who thought that the sun went around the earth.

again you are conflating finding a story interesting with blind faith

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

You are free to make your own choice, but don't try to pretend that the one is just as good as the other.

I never did