caloric value vs calorie value

[boron]

Is there anything wrong with the calorie value of a meal?

Caloric value of a meal is used 10 times more often than calorie value, according to Google site:gov search.

[King Neptune]

Yes, there is a problem using "calorie" there. "Calorie" is a noun; "caloric" is the appropriate adjective.

[boron]

Is this OK?

Caloric value of a meal
Caloric density of a meal
Calorie content of a meal

[King Neptune]

Originally Posted by boron

Is this OK?

Calorie value of a meal
Calorie density of a meal
Caloric content of a meal

The first two should also be "caloric", because they are adjectives modifying "value" and "density".

I most prefer the third, referring to the calories in a meal as the content. But caloric value is sometimes used. I have never before seen "caloric density".

[boron]

I've just changed my post during your posting; it was my mistake. I believe my examples are now correct.

All three terms can be synonyms; I'm not asking which one to use, but is it "e" or "c" on the end of each one.

[Roxxsmom]

Also, when referring to food calories (i.e. you are discussing how many Calories a cookie has), you should capitalize the C.

This is because a small" calorie is the amount of heat it takes to raise 1 ml of water 1 degree kelvin (about 4.2 joules), while a Calorie ("food Calorie, or kilocalorie), is the amount of heat it takes to raise k l (1000ml) of water 1 degree kelvin.

Food packaging gives caloric values in Calories, (which are really kilocalories).

The adjectives (caloric) would not be capitalized.

I think it would be more correct to say "caloric value" than "Calorie value," as "Calorie" is a noun.

[boron]

Yes, caloric value and calorie content are expressed in kilocalories or Calories and I still haven't decided which one to use, because in more technical writing they are usually kilocalories...I'm just worried someone could be confused.

Caloric density is expressed in kilocalories per unit of volume or weight.

[absitinvidia]

move along, nothing to see here . . .

[King Neptune]

Originally Posted by boron

I've just changed my post during your posting; it was my mistake. I believe my examples are now correct.

All three terms can be synonyms; I'm not asking which one to use, but is it "e" or "c" on the end of each one.

The expressions are more or less equivalent, but I think that "caloric content" is the easiest to understand, but "caloric value" isn't bad. "Caloric density" seems clumsy to me. In all three cases it should end with a "c", because they are adjectives.

[Roxxsmom]

Originally Posted by King Neptune

The expressions are more or less equivalent, but I think that "caloric content" is the easiest to understand, but "caloric value" isn't bad. "Caloric density" seems clumsy to me. In all three cases it should end with a "c", because they are adjectives.

I think caloric density would properly refer to the number of calories per gram, as opposed to the total number of calories in something. For instance, butter has greater caloric density than sugar. Not sure how commonly it's used in nutrition literature though.

[boron]

Caloric density is a proper technical term. For example, foods with high caloric density (calories/gram) pass through the stomach slower than foods with low caloric density.

[King Neptune]

Originally Posted by boron

Caloric density is a proper technical term. For example, foods with high caloric density (calories/gram) pass through the stomach slower than foods with low caloric density.

I have never seen the phrase before, but I will admit that I am not a nutritionist.

[boron]

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) uses both "calorie content" and "caloric content." Could it be that both uses are right? When you say "house windows", the "house" is adjective, isn't it? So why couldn't be the "calorie" in "calorie content" also an adjective?

[Roxxsmom]

Originally Posted by boron

Caloric density is a proper technical term. For example, foods with high caloric density (calories/gram) pass through the stomach slower than foods with low caloric density.

Good to know.

Originally Posted by boron

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) uses both "calorie content" and "caloric content" in their articles. Could it be that both uses are right? When you say "house windows", the "house" is adjective, isn't it? So why couldn't be the "calorie" in "calorie content" also an adjective?

I'd guess that's exactly what this means. Could be that different nutrition and physiology focused journals have different "in house" rules for use as well.

[benbradley]

Originally Posted by King Neptune

I have never seen the phrase before, but I will admit that I am not a nutritionist.

I've heard caloric density in relation to caloric restriction (and CRON, Caloric Restriction with Optimim Nutrition).

Actually, this page uses both "caloric restriction" and "calorie restriction:"
http://www.crsociety.org/science/nia_monkey_study

Originally Posted by boron

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) uses both "calorie content" and "caloric content" in their articles. Could it be that both uses are right? When you say "house windows", the "house" is adjective, isn't it? So why couldn't be the "calorie" in "calorie content" also an adjective?

It seems to me either could be correct, but I'm thinking caloric would preferred, as it's specifically an adjective word made for the purpose. OTOH if you're writing for a general audience (as in Reader's Digest) rather than those with some knowledgeable in the health field, maybe calorie would be preferable.

[boron]

Now, I think it's this:

Caloric content = adjective + noun.
Calorie content = two nouns.

It seems to me that it also works with
Caloric density and
Calorie density

but only with
Caloric value and not
Calorie value (because this would mean "value of calories," which is a nonsense, and not "value of a meal," as intended)

The above logic doesn't seem to work with
Energetic value, which is much more rarly used than
Energy value, which is common.

[King Neptune]

Originally Posted by boron

Now, I think it's this:

Caloric content = adjective + noun.
Calorie content = two nouns.

It seems to me that it also works with
Caloric density and
Calorie density

but only with
Caloric value and not
Calorie value (because this would mean "value of calories," which is a nonsense, and not "value of a meal," as intended)

The above logic doesn't seem to work with
Energetic value, which is much more rarly used than
Energy value, which is common.

I agree with your perspective here, and it agrees with what I wrote earlier, that it should be "caloric" for the simple reason that adjectives, not nouns, are used to modify nouns.

[absitinvidia]

Originally Posted by King Neptune

I agree with your perspective here, and it agrees with what I wrote earlier, that it should be "caloric" for the simple reason that adjectives, not nouns, are used to modify nouns.

I think this is an overly strict interpretation. For example, you'd say protein content (not proteinaceous), sugar content (not sugary), salt content (not salty), etc.

[King Neptune]

Originally Posted by absitinvidia

I think this is an overly strict interpretation. For example, you'd say protein content (not proteinaceous), sugar content (not sugary), salt content (not salty), etc.

It would depend on the exact usage. I do not believe that I have ever said or written protein content or proteinaceous content, nor am I likely to, because that isn't something that people often communicate about, except perhaps nutritionists. Nor have I said either sugar content of sugary content, but I probably have asked, "How much sugar is in that crap?" I would have treated salt in a similar fashion. But I believe that I have said something along the lines of this has xxx calories in a serving according to the label. Perhaps we should have led Boron down the path of calories per serving; it is certainly more common information than caloric density at least in the U.S.

[boron]

Again, my question is not which term (calorie content, value or density) to use, but is it grammatically correct to use caloric or calorie in examples provided.

Caloric and calorie density are used in food studies and not in public health writing so, please, no worries about that.

Content often goes with a noun, as absitinvidia above pointed out (sugar content and salt content), so I'm happy to go with calorie content.

But I believe only caloric value, and not calorie value, is correct.

[King Neptune]

Originally Posted by boron

Again, my question is not which term (calorie content, value or density) to use, but is it grammatically correct to use caloric or calorie in examples provided.

Caloric and calorie density are used in food studies and not in public health writing so, please, no worries about that.

Content often goes with a noun, as absitinvidia above pointed out (sugar content and salt content), so I'm happy to go with calorie content.

But I believe only caloric value, and not calorie value, is correct.

Technical terms in many fields are not grammatical, so I try to avoid technical terms. I had this argument about terms in nutrition; we found a dictionary that cleared things up and demonstrated to him that he was trying to apply a technical term to general English.

[boron]

Originally Posted by King Neptune

Technical terms in many fields are not grammatical

Well, that would certainly explain the whole problem.

[King Neptune]

Originally Posted by boron

Well, that would certainly explain the whole problem.

It sure does, especially when specialists in a field refuse to even try to translate into the general language.