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Old 02-07-2013, 06:31 PM   #1
boron
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caloric value vs calorie value

Is there anything wrong with the calorie value of a meal?

Caloric value of a meal is used 10 times more often than calorie value, according to Google site:gov search.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:49 PM   #2
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Yes, there is a problem using "calorie" there. "Calorie" is a noun; "caloric" is the appropriate adjective.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:11 PM   #3
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Is this OK?

Caloric value of a meal
Caloric density of a meal
Calorie content of a meal
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:15 PM   #4
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Is this OK?

Calorie value of a meal
Calorie density of a meal
Caloric content of a meal
The first two should also be "caloric", because they are adjectives modifying "value" and "density".

I most prefer the third, referring to the calories in a meal as the content. But caloric value is sometimes used. I have never before seen "caloric density".
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:16 PM   #5
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I've just changed my post during your posting; it was my mistake. I believe my examples are now correct.

All three terms can be synonyms; I'm not asking which one to use, but is it "e" or "c" on the end of each one.

Last edited by boron; 02-07-2013 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:43 PM   #6
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Also, when referring to food calories (i.e. you are discussing how many Calories a cookie has), you should capitalize the C.

This is because a small" calorie is the amount of heat it takes to raise 1 ml of water 1 degree kelvin (about 4.2 joules), while a Calorie ("food Calorie, or kilocalorie), is the amount of heat it takes to raise k l (1000ml) of water 1 degree kelvin.

Food packaging gives caloric values in Calories, (which are really kilocalories).

The adjectives (caloric) would not be capitalized.

I think it would be more correct to say "caloric value" than "Calorie value," as "Calorie" is a noun.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:08 AM   #7
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Yes, caloric value and calorie content are expressed in kilocalories or Calories and I still haven't decided which one to use, because in more technical writing they are usually kilocalories...I'm just worried someone could be confused.

Caloric density is expressed in kilocalories per unit of volume or weight.

Last edited by boron; 02-08-2013 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:00 AM   #8
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move along, nothing to see here . . .

Last edited by absitinvidia; 02-08-2013 at 01:02 AM. Reason: thought better of it
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:35 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boron View Post
I've just changed my post during your posting; it was my mistake. I believe my examples are now correct.

All three terms can be synonyms; I'm not asking which one to use, but is it "e" or "c" on the end of each one.
The expressions are more or less equivalent, but I think that "caloric content" is the easiest to understand, but "caloric value" isn't bad. "Caloric density" seems clumsy to me. In all three cases it should end with a "c", because they are adjectives.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:59 AM   #10
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The expressions are more or less equivalent, but I think that "caloric content" is the easiest to understand, but "caloric value" isn't bad. "Caloric density" seems clumsy to me. In all three cases it should end with a "c", because they are adjectives.
I think caloric density would properly refer to the number of calories per gram, as opposed to the total number of calories in something. For instance, butter has greater caloric density than sugar. Not sure how commonly it's used in nutrition literature though.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:53 PM   #11
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Caloric density is a proper technical term. For example, foods with high caloric density (calories/gram) pass through the stomach slower than foods with low caloric density.

Last edited by boron; 02-08-2013 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:59 PM   #12
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Caloric density is a proper technical term. For example, foods with high caloric density (calories/gram) pass through the stomach slower than foods with low caloric density.
I have never seen the phrase before, but I will admit that I am not a nutritionist.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:22 AM   #13
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The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) uses both "calorie content" and "caloric content." Could it be that both uses are right? When you say "house windows", the "house" is adjective, isn't it? So why couldn't be the "calorie" in "calorie content" also an adjective?

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Old 02-09-2013, 04:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Caloric density is a proper technical term. For example, foods with high caloric density (calories/gram) pass through the stomach slower than foods with low caloric density.
Good to know.

Quote:
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The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) uses both "calorie content" and "caloric content" in their articles. Could it be that both uses are right? When you say "house windows", the "house" is adjective, isn't it? So why couldn't be the "calorie" in "calorie content" also an adjective?
I'd guess that's exactly what this means. Could be that different nutrition and physiology focused journals have different "in house" rules for use as well.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:49 AM   #15
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I have never seen the phrase before, but I will admit that I am not a nutritionist.
I've heard caloric density in relation to caloric restriction (and CRON, Caloric Restriction with Optimim Nutrition).

Actually, this page uses both "caloric restriction" and "calorie restriction:"
http://www.crsociety.org/science/nia_monkey_study
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Originally Posted by boron View Post
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) uses both "calorie content" and "caloric content" in their articles. Could it be that both uses are right? When you say "house windows", the "house" is adjective, isn't it? So why couldn't be the "calorie" in "calorie content" also an adjective?
It seems to me either could be correct, but I'm thinking caloric would preferred, as it's specifically an adjective word made for the purpose. OTOH if you're writing for a general audience (as in Reader's Digest) rather than those with some knowledgeable in the health field, maybe calorie would be preferable.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:42 PM   #16
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Now, I think it's this:

Caloric content = adjective + noun.
Calorie content = two nouns.

It seems to me that it also works with
Caloric density and
Calorie density

but only with
Caloric value and not
Calorie value (because this would mean "value of calories," which is a nonsense, and not "value of a meal," as intended)

The above logic doesn't seem to work with
Energetic value, which is much more rarly used than
Energy value, which is common.

Last edited by boron; 02-09-2013 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:32 PM   #17
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Now, I think it's this:

Caloric content = adjective + noun.
Calorie content = two nouns.

It seems to me that it also works with
Caloric density and
Calorie density

but only with
Caloric value and not
Calorie value (because this would mean "value of calories," which is a nonsense, and not "value of a meal," as intended)

The above logic doesn't seem to work with
Energetic value, which is much more rarly used than
Energy value, which is common.
I agree with your perspective here, and it agrees with what I wrote earlier, that it should be "caloric" for the simple reason that adjectives, not nouns, are used to modify nouns.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:24 AM   #18
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I agree with your perspective here, and it agrees with what I wrote earlier, that it should be "caloric" for the simple reason that adjectives, not nouns, are used to modify nouns.

I think this is an overly strict interpretation. For example, you'd say protein content (not proteinaceous), sugar content (not sugary), salt content (not salty), etc.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:47 AM   #19
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I think this is an overly strict interpretation. For example, you'd say protein content (not proteinaceous), sugar content (not sugary), salt content (not salty), etc.
It would depend on the exact usage. I do not believe that I have ever said or written protein content or proteinaceous content, nor am I likely to, because that isn't something that people often communicate about, except perhaps nutritionists. Nor have I said either sugar content of sugary content, but I probably have asked, "How much sugar is in that crap?" I would have treated salt in a similar fashion. But I believe that I have said something along the lines of this has xxx calories in a serving according to the label. Perhaps we should have led Boron down the path of calories per serving; it is certainly more common information than caloric density at least in the U.S.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:54 PM   #20
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Again, my question is not which term (calorie content, value or density) to use, but is it grammatically correct to use caloric or calorie in examples provided.

Caloric and calorie density are used in food studies and not in public health writing so, please, no worries about that.

Content often goes with a noun, as absitinvidia above pointed out (sugar content and salt content), so I'm happy to go with calorie content.

But I believe only caloric value, and not calorie value, is correct.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:41 PM   #21
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Again, my question is not which term (calorie content, value or density) to use, but is it grammatically correct to use caloric or calorie in examples provided.

Caloric and calorie density are used in food studies and not in public health writing so, please, no worries about that.

Content often goes with a noun, as absitinvidia above pointed out (sugar content and salt content), so I'm happy to go with calorie content.

But I believe only caloric value, and not calorie value, is correct.
Technical terms in many fields are not grammatical, so I try to avoid technical terms. I had this argument about terms in nutrition; we found a dictionary that cleared things up and demonstrated to him that he was trying to apply a technical term to general English.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:51 PM   #22
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Technical terms in many fields are not grammatical
Well, that would certainly explain the whole problem.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:55 PM   #23
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Well, that would certainly explain the whole problem.
It sure does, especially when specialists in a field refuse to even try to translate into the general language.
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