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Old 02-06-2013, 01:29 PM   #1
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EU Citizens Warned Not To Use US Cloud Services Over Spying Fears

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/01/31/2223206/
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"Leading privacy expert Caspar Bowden warned European citizens not to use cloud services hosted in the U.S. over spying fears. Bowden, former privacy adviser to Microsoft Europe, explained at a panel discussion hosted at the recent Computers, Privacy and Data Protection conference in Brussels, that a section in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Amendments Act 2008 (FISAAA) permits U.S. intelligence agencies to access data owned by non-U.S. citizens on cloud storage hosed by U.S. companies, if their activity is deemed to affect U.S. foreign policy. Bowden claimed the Act allows for purely political spying of activists, protesters and political groups. Bowden also pointed out that amendments to the EU's data protection regulation proposal introduce specific loopholes that permit FISAAA surveillance. The president of Estonia, Toomas Hendrik Ilves (at a separate panel discussion) commented, 'If it is a U.S. company it's the FBI's jurisdiction and if you are not a U.S. citizen then they come and look at whatever you have if it is stored on a U.S. company server.' The European Data Protection Supervisor declined to comment but an insider indicated that the authority is looking into the matter."

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Old 02-06-2013, 01:49 PM   #2
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It's time to accept that American companies are unacceptably high risk places to hold your data.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:09 PM   #3
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:41 PM   #4
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It's time to accept that American companies are unacceptably high risk places to hold your data.

It's time to accept that America is a fascist nation.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:22 PM   #5
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Honestly I assume that anything I do online is public unless I go waaaay out of my way to make it private. All of my email, my inboxes on social network accounts, everyone I talk to, I consider public.

This doesn't bother me, though, as I don't generally have anything to hide and when I do, I know how to hide it. I think it's sort of a symptom of growing up to a very different expectation than the generation before me. Lack of privacy is almost the default.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:41 PM   #6
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It's time to accept that America is a fascist nation.
You'd think the fucking writing would be clear on the wall, but looking around, it doesn't appear that most people will accept the fact of our corporately (read bankster) imposed fascism. We're constantly spied on, the pres can kill whoever the fuck he wants without oversight or consideration, even US citizens, the Bill of Rights is in judicial tatters, monster corps control our legislation to their advantage and the citizens' detriment. Law enforcement now considers the public at large to be an enemy. But, all I see are heads buried in the fucking sand, unable to believe that our government has betrayed us and is quickly cracking down on dissent. All because people accept the tales of the boogie-man (which are probably fucking false flags to begin with).
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:41 PM   #7
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Lack of privacy is almost the default.
Yes. I think it's a generational thing to some extent. Young people I know who want real privacy don't go on Facebook, use email in a guarded manner, and may not even have a Twitter account. They're still vulnerable to invasion of privacy by others - photos tagged, mentions of locations, recounting of secrets.

But they're a minority. Others think nothing of writing things like "I was sooo drunk" as an excuse for not doing something they should have done.

I think the world will move in the direction of less privacy, personally, and maybe with it, norms will change. If everyone has pictures of them being drunk and inappropriate when they're 18, when they're 23 potential employers will just ignore it. Nude pictures become meaningless when every other kid has posted one at some time or the other. Privacy will go the way of cursive and grammar.

In a way, it's a return to the tribe or the village, where it was impossible to keep a secret. Lives were too intertwined.
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:06 PM   #8
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I'm so glad you're comfortable with this arrangement.
And obviously I'm glad that you're glad.

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Yes. I think it's a generational thing to some extent. Young people I know who want real privacy don't go on Facebook, use email in a guarded manner, and may not even have a Twitter account. They're still vulnerable to invasion of privacy by others - photos tagged, mentions of locations, recounting of secrets.
That's another big thing, you can lock your own stuff down like Fort Knox, but just by existing, you're already being tracked. In the background of photos, subject of a 'creepshots' style cell phone photo, security cameras, someone tweeting that you did something strange, a waitress posting your receipt, hell even after you're dead, you might be lucky enough to wind up on some gore site full of photos from inside morgues.

Quote:
I think the world will move in the direction of less privacy, personally, and maybe with it, norms will change. If everyone has pictures of them being drunk and inappropriate when they're 18, when they're 23 potential employers will just ignore it. Nude pictures become meaningless when every other kid has posted one at some time or the other. Privacy will go the way of cursive and grammar.

In a way, it's a return to the tribe or the village, where it was impossible to keep a secret. Lives were too intertwined.
This too. I can see someone missing privacy if they had it at one time. But (to a point) it's not necessarily something we naturally desire if it isn't there. It's definitely learned.
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:49 PM   #9
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It's time to accept that America is a fascist nation.
I woulda said "fascist police state," to include the spying, the secret police operations, the massive incarceration rates and the conflation between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive as well as the radical authoritarian nationalism.
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You'd think the fucking writing would be clear on the wall, but looking around, it doesn't appear that most people will accept the fact of our corporately (read bankster) imposed fascism. We're constantly spied on, the pres can kill whoever the fuck he wants without oversight or consideration, even US citizens, the Bill of Rights is in judicial tatters, monster corps control our legislation to their advantage and the citizens' detriment. Law enforcement now considers the public at large to be an enemy. But, all I see are heads buried in the fucking sand, unable to believe that our government has betrayed us and is quickly cracking down on dissent. All because people accept the tales of the boogie-man (which are probably fucking false flags to begin with).
That's ok. We can fix it all next election. We just have to vote for the right people. Apparently it's our own fault anyway, for voting the existing group of powertripping clowns into office. We were supposed to vote for the Gandhis and MLKs that weren't allowed within 20 miles of a ballot.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:01 PM   #10
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My question is how do you know where the cloud service is being hosted? Because it would seem logical to sign up outside of a US hosted cloud service, whether you are from the US, or from the EU. Surely one exists?

There are a number of people in the US that do not appreciate the spying, either.


Not that that would keep the U.S. government from forcing the shutdown of a cloud server hosted in another sovereign nation....
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:04 PM   #11
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It's time to accept that America is a fascist nation.
I don't believe that to be true, but successive administrations have shown a contempt for the rights of foreigners that makes it a country I would no longer want to visit.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:11 PM   #12
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:22 PM   #13
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I have to say that I truly feel sorry for all of those past generations of mankind who never understood what freedom really was, what it really meant, because there was no internet yet.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:35 PM   #14
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I'm sure FedGov is super interested in whatever you're hosting, for sure. Those lolcats are definitely enough to warrant a knock on your door from the men in black.

I still can't get people honestly still believe in internet privacy. It does not exist. It will never exist. You have never had any kind of privacy at all on the internet.

But it's so amusing to see people freaking out about the next big government betrayal. I wonder, was there ever a time it worked perfectly without error or betrayal? Do enlighten me on this great, great time for being an American citizen. What decade was the most free?

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Old 02-06-2013, 06:46 PM   #15
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IDo enlighten me on this great, great times for being an American citizen.
This has nothing to do with American citizens. It's about the American government deciding it has the right to access all data create by non-American citizens but held by American companies.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:50 PM   #16
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People who think the United States is a fascist police state need to wake up and do a little studying on what real fascism is like.

Having your cloud storage less than secure is NOT the definition.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:57 PM   #17
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I wonder, was there ever a time it worked perfectly without error or betrayal? Do enlighten me on this great, great times for being an American citizen. What decade was the most free?
410-401 BCE...
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:58 PM   #18
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People who think the United States is a fascist police state need to wake up and do a little studying on what real fascism is like.

Having your cloud storage less than secure is NOT the definition.
True dat.

"Fascism" is a convenient term to use because few people hearing it or saying it actually understand it. But it sounds impressive.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:08 PM   #19
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I do love to see slaves happy with their internment. The illusion that we were always slaves may work for the young, but I remember a time when freedom was more than a memory, when privacy was a constitutional right.
I don't think you have any idea what a real slave is.
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This has nothing to do with American citizens. It's about the American government deciding it has the right to access all data create by non-American citizens but held by American companies.
I don't really have a problem with that either. I only object to the US seizing overseas servers, which they can already do to a certain extent. I'm vaguely remembering some story about the UK handing over a boy for pirating a movie. And the various PirateBay raids. So, I'm wondering... why is this any worse than what they've already been able to do? It seems like another law to tighten up a loophole they've been working around.

If we're going to be very literal about this, the closest comparison I can think of is leaving precious jewels and documents in a US bank safe as a EU citizen.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:13 PM   #20
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So, I'm wondering... why is this any worse than what they've already been able to do?
What's different is that the European Union is advising its citizens not to use a wide variety of services provided by American companies because the American Government has decided it has the right to view all our data at any time without any rights on our part.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:39 PM   #21
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What's different is that the European Union is advising its citizens not to use a wide variety of services provided by American companies because the American Government has decided it has the right to view all our data at any time without any rights on our part.
My reading is that some guy named Caspar Bowden is so advising EU citizens. Is he speaking for the EU?
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:44 PM   #22
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My reading is that some guy named Caspar Bowden is so advising EU citizens. Is he speaking for the EU?
My mistake.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:46 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by robeiae View Post
My reading is that some guy named Caspar Bowden is so advising EU citizens. Is he speaking for the EU?
No, but the commission is. But introducing heavy, heavy fines for US entities operating in Europe who share information willy nilly like that could lead to a trade war, apparently.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...official-says/
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But after spending two days in the Belgian capital, it’s clear that digitally minded officials, activists, lobbyists and members of the European Parliament are focused squarely on what could become a massively important change to the European Union's rules concerning data protection. What's more, they have the attention of American tech firms as well.

As we reported over a year ago, Justice Commissioner Viviane Reding of the European Commission proposed a “comprehensive reform” to existing data protection law, which would regulate how online service companies are allowed to keep information on their customers. Right now, anyone who cares about European tech issues has their eye on this ongoing legislation as it makes its way through various Brussels bodies. The legislation is not expected to take effect until 2016.
ETA - The fines would be up to 1 per cent of global turn-over, so it would be very costly. One could of course derail that and say that this is not the same. But that is not true. It is within the same complex of issues that are bundled up in the EU context. Everything from ACTA to this to spying is bundled up in the same set of issues. The EU is coming to different conclusions than the US, and I see that this will be a source for conflict in the years ahead.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:10 PM   #24
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:27 PM   #25
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