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Old 01-10-2013, 06:56 PM   #1
Xelebes
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Well, it's good to know that you care, Stephen.

If it saves you a few bucks to balance the budget, it's all good, right?

Fake parts used in Canada's C-130s; warnings of catastrophic failure issued; Stephen Harper does nothing.

Kinda throws water on the whole let's rebuild the army thing, doesn't it?

Quote:
Documents show the Canadian military has known about the bogus electronic chips in the giant Hercules C-130J aircraft since at least July 2012, but continued to hide the fact during a CBC News investigation months later.

The military continues to fly the new Hercs with the fake parts, and says it still has no immediate plans to replace them.
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Failure of the parts could leave Canadian military pilots flying blind, potentially in a combat zone, with no information on altitude, speed, location, fuel supply, engine performance or warning messages.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:21 PM   #2
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Well, they can still look out of the window, right?
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:41 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Xelebes View Post
If it saves you a few bucks to balance the budget, it's all good, right?

Fake parts used in Canada's C-130s; warnings of catastrophic failure issued; Stephen Harper does nothing.

Kinda throws water on the whole let's rebuild the army thing, doesn't it?
Wait, what? They know about the fake parts AND have no plans to replace them?! What. The. Hell.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:00 AM   #4
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Canada can do what Canada wants to do ..

What concerns me (as a US citizen, and a vet who had high security clearances) more is China's abilty to get parts into any military geer. They really are not our friends. Their mere possession of the chip is a major security lapse, or blatant stupidity (if we are sourcing military parts from China particularly, or any other foreign country, friend or foe) in the first place.

THAT needs be tracked down, heads need to roll, and we need some redesign, with a little bit of real security, for the compromised parts regardless of what they are.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:02 AM   #5
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I thought this thread was about Canada?

OP, have the army said anything about why they won't change the parts?
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:08 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PorterStarrByrd View Post
Canada can do what Canada wants to do ..

What concerns me (as a US citizen, and a vet who had high security clearances) more is China's abilty to get parts into any military geer. They really are not our friends. Their mere possession of the chip is a major security lapse, or blatant stupidity (if we are sourcing military parts from China particularly, or any other foreign country, friend or foe) in the first place.

THAT needs be tracked down, heads need to roll, and we need some redesign, with a little bit of real security, for the compromised parts regardless of what they are.
Then maybe you should start a thread about that, because this thread *is* about the fake parts in the CANADIAN military. I don't understand why you would dismiss that as though swatting an annoying fly to start a derail about another subject altogether, but don't do it, please. Thanks.

Cranky, another US vet with a high security clearance, who isn't sure how that's relevant to this thread, either.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:13 AM   #7
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I'm guessing the Brits have some of these too, or are flying with them. The thread is about Canada but, if you are familiar with the militray (and the press), you probably realize you won't get a real answer from one through the other. My guess is most of the 'facts' aren't, nor should they be, accurate in a security conscious atmosphere.

If they have any validity, this is a much bigger problem than just Canada.

Sorry however, to have turned the thread from the OP. I shouldn't have done that.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PorterStarrByrd View Post
I'm guessing the Brits have some of these too, or are flying with them. The thread is about Canada but, if you are familiar with the militray (and the press), you probably realize you won't get a real answer from one through the other. My guess is most of the 'facts' aren't, nor should they be, accurate in a security conscious atmosphere.

If they have any validity, this is a much bigger problem than just Canada.

Sorry however, to have turned the thread from the OP. I shouldn't have done that.
'Sokay. We've all gone sideways from time to time around here.

And you may well be correct about the atmosphere. But there always seems to be someone willing to talk, NDA's notwithstanding. Especially when it comes to safety issues, as this clearly would be.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:05 AM   #9
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I thought this thread was about Canada?
Just to clarify, the ships are manufactured in Canada but they are used by the US military and the Royal Air Force.

ETA: Found us a wikisource.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:33 AM   #10
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Ships?
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PorterStarrByrd View Post
Canada can do what Canada wants to do ..

What concerns me (as a US citizen, and a vet who had high security clearances) more is China's abilty to get parts into any military geer. They really are not our friends. Their mere possession of the chip is a major security lapse, or blatant stupidity (if we are sourcing military parts from China particularly, or any other foreign country, friend or foe) in the first place.

THAT needs be tracked down, heads need to roll, and we need some redesign, with a little bit of real security, for the compromised parts regardless of what they are.
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Originally Posted by Cranky View Post
Then maybe you should start a thread about that, because this thread *is* about the fake parts in the CANADIAN military. I don't understand why you would dismiss that as though swatting an annoying fly to start a derail about another subject altogether, but don't do it, please. Thanks.

Cranky, another US vet with a high security clearance, who isn't sure how that's relevant to this thread, either.
US people tend to be US Centric. But it's not that we're conceited. We're simply the best.

And BTW, I too am a vet and have extremely high security clearance.

Off course in my case, I'm only a Vet of the KISS Army.

Doesn't that count?
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:52 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by mirandashell View Post
Ships?
A misfired synapse at the expense of reading too much Steampunk. But I'm pretty sure you can figure it out from context, including the link.

I'm not following why it's off topic to mention the US in this thread. The article hits on US/Canadian relations, as well.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:57 AM   #13
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Just to clarify, the ships are manufactured in Canada but they are used by the US military and the Royal Air Force.

ETA: Found us a wikisource.
As I understand it from local news, the chips are made in Canada, by a Chinese owned fab, which gives them access to things they shouldn't have access to. I'm not for returning to the cold war, but we can't put our heads in the sand re Chinese possible intentions.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:01 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by PorterStarrByrd View Post
As I understand it from local news, the chips are made in Canada, by a Chinese owned fab, which gives them access to things they shouldn't have access to. I'm not for returning to the cold war, but we can't put our heads in the sand re Chinese possible intentions.
Isn't that what we (not just the US) usually do?
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:05 AM   #15
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So, is this a problem stemming form the Canadian government, the Chinese government, or Lockheed Martin?
Not sure where to direct my outrage.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:12 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PorterStarrByrd View Post
As I understand it from local news, the chips are made in Canada, by a Chinese owned fab, which gives them access to things they shouldn't have access to. I'm not for returning to the cold war, but we can't put our heads in the sand re Chinese possible intentions.
Quote taken from the article in the OP
Quote:
The U.S. congressional investigation reported the fake Hercules microchips were originally made by the Korean electronics giant Samsung in the 1990s, and more than a decade later, had been recycled, refurbished and remarked to appear genuine by a company in China.
I'm thinking the whole recycle thing is the root of the problem.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:51 AM   #17
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This is just one example of, as the article mentions, a more general problem:
https://www.google.com/search?q=counterfiet+electronics
From one article:
Quote:
A yearlong U.S. federal probe concluded this year found 1,800 cases of bogus parts, totaling more than 1 million actual devices, used during 2009 and 2010.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PorterStarrByrd View Post
As I understand it from local news, the chips are made in Canada, by a Chinese owned fab, which gives them access to things they shouldn't have access to. I'm not for returning to the cold war, but we can't put our heads in the sand re Chinese possible intentions.
While there's concern in idea that China or some other government could make parts specifically with the idea of them winding up in the military products of another government and have the parts' operations "taken over" by their government of origin, the overwhelming majority of these cases are from a simple desire to make money by remarking and selling inferior parts as if they were much higher cost, well-tested, high-reliability parts.
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Old 01-11-2013, 03:05 PM   #18
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I'm not following why it's off topic to mention the US in this thread. The article hits on US/Canadian relations, as well.
It wasn't the mention of the US, it was this:

Quote:
Canada can do what Canada wants to do ..
Which, you have to admit, is pretty dismissive. And Porter realised that himself and apologised for it later.
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