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Old 12-24-2012, 08:35 PM   #1
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4 Firefighters Shot, 2 Fatally, in Western New York

The fire and shooting happened this morning a few miles from where I live. I am very saddened and deeply troubled by this event.


ABC News story


And Christmas is tomorrow. For those families whose loved ones were killed and injured, my heart breaks.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:39 PM   #2
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This is horrible. The wives of firefighters live in constant fear of their husbands getting killed by fire.

But not by bullets.

When the fire marshall's car pulls up in front of the house of a firefighter, the wife looks out and sees the car, sees the men getting out and heading up the front walkway, and she knows in utter horror and anguish that they are there to tell her that her husband is dead.

But by bullets?
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:44 PM   #3
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I want to add two observations:


1) The funerals for those slain firefighters will be HUGE. Firefighters will come from all over the country--and likely from Canada as well-- to attend that funeral. There will likely be a huge, somber parade for the funeral procession.

2) Firefighters in particular are dearly beloved members of almost any community. While cops might sometimes be feared and mistrusted, firefigters have always been regarded as invaluable lifesavers. All members of all socio-economic segemnts know that a firefighter is your best friend. And since 9/11, the endearment of firefighters in America has only intensified.

In the end, this travesty will be received with much emotion by the general public.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:44 PM   #4
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:45 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Ambrosia View Post
The fire and shooting happened this morning a few miles from where I live. I am very saddened and deeply troubled by this event.
Hang in there.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:47 PM   #6
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In the end, this travesty will be received with much emotion by the general public.
I agree.

I get the feeling few shootings will go unnoticed for some time to come.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:49 PM   #7
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I know people in Rochester, and I very nearly went to college there. My god, who would do such a thing? Shoot at firefighters? It's bad enough they worry about normal disasters and terrorism. I hope those responsible are caught quickly.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:50 PM   #8
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:32 PM   #9
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I know people in Rochester, and I very nearly went to college there. My god, who would do such a thing? Shoot at firefighters? It's bad enough they worry about normal disasters and terrorism. I hope those responsible are caught quickly.
Did I misread the story? I thought the man responsible was already dead.
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:34 PM   #10
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:42 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Teinz View Post
Hang in there.
Thanks, Teinz.


There was an off-duty police officer who was injured, too. He was hit by shrapnel. The two firefighters in the hospital are in guarded condition.

Police say the suspected gunman was found dead near the property where the fire started.

The house was set on fire by a car on fire close to the house. Besides the home that was on fire in the beginning, because the firemen couldn't get to it due to the gunman the fire spread and destroyed two three other homes with another four homes damaged. I hope no one else was injured due to the uncontrolled fire.

Last edited by Ambrosia; 12-24-2012 at 09:55 PM. Reason: updated information
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:06 PM   #12
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Coming so soon after the explosion in Indianapolis, I can't help but wonder if we'll find out that insurance or foreclosure will appear in this story.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:21 PM   #13
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This reminds me of the time when ambulances stopped going into some UK housing estates because they would get shot at. This is not something people in already very difficult jobs should have to worry about.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:59 PM   #14
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Coming so soon after the explosion in Indianapolis, I can't help but wonder if we'll find out that insurance or foreclosure will appear in this story.

Wondering the same thing.

Either someone was trying to benefit from fire insuarnce, or someone's house was getting torched as a form of gangland revenge.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:33 PM   #15
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The police don't have a motive yet, but they have ID'd the shooter. He has a violent record.

Quote:
Police say Spengler was shooting from a berm near the Lake Road home and this was set up as a trap. A Webster Police officer did exchange fire with a shooter. The officer was not injured.
Above quote taken from updated story from News10, Rochester, NY.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:41 PM   #16
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Wondering the same thing.

Either someone was trying to benefit from fire insuarnce, or someone's house was getting torched as a form of gangland revenge.
Or the folks he wanted to take out in a rampage were his neighbors and the cops [eta - and first reponders ]
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:43 PM   #17
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:56 AM   #18
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It seems the guy is possibly a very disturbed undividual. Served 17 years for murdering his 92-year-old grandmother with a hammer.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-shot/1788917/

Meanwhile, according to one report, the house address was 191 Lake Road in Webster, NY.

If you click on the "Google Maps" link below, use "Street View" and make the teeny yellow man turn around away from the water to look at the house itself.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=191+L...14580&t=m&z=15



Nice little house.

Nice little neighborhood.

Nice water-front view.

And reports of the shooter taking a position on a nearby "embankment" are made more clear when you spin the teeny yellow man back around to look at the water again. There's your embankment.
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Old 12-25-2012, 05:34 AM   #19
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I hope peace comes to their families.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:54 PM   #20
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How incredibly sad, for all the families involved.

These brave men and women rush into places most of us run from. To be shot doing their duty...it just defies belief.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:14 PM   #21
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More news emerging now--a female corpse found among the post-fire debris. The man's sister is missing and it's presumed that's her, although the coroner will make that determination as well as the cause of death.

In the aftermath, I found it heartening to read that the firefighters in the surrounding towns and the nearby city are covering all shifts in Webster's fire stations so the Webster firefighters who knew the dead and wounded can be away from their duties to mourn and support the families.

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Old 12-26-2012, 08:40 PM   #22
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He left a note, and police read one line publicly:

"I still have to get ready to see how much of the neighborhood I can burn down and do what I like doing best, killing people."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...lliam-spengler
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:59 AM   #23
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The gunman's neighbor was a straw buyer for this convicted murderer piece of shit:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/28/justic...ush/index.html

Quote:
New York (CNN) -- The gunman who ambushed and killed two unsuspecting firefighters as they battled a blaze in upstate New York couldn't buy his weapons legally so he allegedly got his neighbor's daughter to purchase them for him, said U.S. Attorney William Hochul.
Dawn Nguyen of Rochester, New York, faces charges over allegedly lying when she purchased an AR-15 rifle -- a .223-caliber weapon -- and 12-gauge shotgun that the gunman had with him during the attack.
Authorities say she told the gun dealer that she planned to be the owner of the weapons, but had instead purchased them on June 7, 2010,for gunman William Spengler....
May she get the full sentence and fine.

Quote:
...Nguyen's attorney was not immediately available for comment. If convicted, she could face up to 10 years in jail and $250,000 fine.
This article is new but doesn't mention the burned body in his house. Wtf? Presumably that is his sister, but I think she still hasn't been officially ID'ed. In any case, he killed more people than the article I linked suggests. I don't know why they left that part out.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:06 PM   #24
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The police believe it was his sister, but the ME hasn't made the official ID yet because of the heat of the fire.
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:15 PM   #25
nighttimer
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Spengler wondered aloud at his parole hearing if he might kill again.

Guess that question's been answered, huh?

Quote:
Nine years after brutally slaying his 92-year-old grandmother with a hammer, the man who opened fire on volunteer firefighters on Christmas Eve in upstate New York told a parole board in 1989 that he was worried he might kill again if freed, according to court documents.

“If you were capable of it once, are you capable of it again?" William Spengler wondered out loud at an Oct. 3, 1989, parole hearing, according to state criminal records released by the New York Department of Corrections in the wake of Monday’s shooting.

"There is no reason why it should have happened,” he told commission members. “It makes no sense whatsoever. You know, hindsight is a great thing but it does no good."

Spengler frequently quarreled with the parole board members during the hearings, disputing how many times he struck his grandmother with the hammer in the July 18, 1980, attack, for example.

He also blamed his grandmother for precipitating the attack by hitting him in the groin, and said he only had the hammer because he was preparing to board up a basement door to prevent his grandmother from going to the cellar.
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