Read Books By AWers!

Welcome to the AbsoluteWrite Water Cooler! Please read The Newbie Guide To Absolute Write

editing for authors ad

A publisher or agency using Google ads to solicit your novel probably isn't anyone you want to write for.


Go Back   Absolute Write Water Cooler > Pop Culture > PoC
Register FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-08-2012, 02:49 AM   #1
AshleyEpidemic
Azarath Metrion Zinthos
 
AshleyEpidemic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Austin
Posts: 1,247
AshleyEpidemic is a shiny, shiny jewelAshleyEpidemic is a shiny, shiny jewel
Transcending Color Lines

My main characters are always black and generally female, unless I am writing about a specific person or a setting which requires otherwise. I do this simply because that is who I am. It isn't that I can't write in other ways, but I have such a wealth of emotions and experiences to draw from.

That said, I almost never emphasize that my characters are black. They don't interact with other people any differently. They love who they choose and are never stereotypical. I don't want my character's identity lost, but I don't want them being judged because I didn't describe them as white.

Should I be worrying about possibly ambiguity in their descriptions?
__________________
So, I have this blog. It's here.
I'm also a TV writer at Geeked Out Nation
I tweet too.
AshleyEpidemic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 03:29 AM   #2
Cyia
Rewriting My Destiny
 
Cyia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brillig in the slithy toves...
Posts: 13,987
Cyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Dear writer,

If you don't specifically describe your MC as something other than white, most-everyone reading is going to assume she's white. It's the default.

Sincerely,
The Voice of Experience
__________________
_


Cyia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 04:08 AM   #3
fadeaccompli
here and there again
 
fadeaccompli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 899
fadeaccompli has earned our admirationfadeaccompli has earned our admirationfadeaccompli has earned our admirationfadeaccompli has earned our admiration
I think there's a lot of ground between never mentioning that a character is black, and not emphasizing that she is. It is the sad truth that in the North American English language market, at the very least, that a character not specifically identified as non-white will be read as white unless other cultural traits are very heavily emphasized. And even then some people will miss it. (Heck, some people will miss it even when stated explicitly, but that's readers for you.)

However, you can certainly write a black character without the story needing to be About Being Black. Mention it early on--maybe a few times, casually, to make sure it sticks, like also specifying that a relative is black--and then keep on going. It doesn't have to be the focus of your story, but with the way people read stuff, you do want to get that information in early on if you don't want them picturing Yet Another White Woman anyway.
fadeaccompli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 06:17 AM   #4
AshleyEpidemic
Azarath Metrion Zinthos
 
AshleyEpidemic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Austin
Posts: 1,247
AshleyEpidemic is a shiny, shiny jewelAshleyEpidemic is a shiny, shiny jewel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyia View Post
Dear writer,

If you don't specifically describe your MC as something other than white, most-everyone reading is going to assume she's white. It's the default.

Sincerely,
The Voice of Experience
I have described my character as black. However, I don't sit and dwell on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fadeaccompli View Post
I think there's a lot of ground between never mentioning that a character is black, and not emphasizing that she is. It is the sad truth that in the North American English language market, at the very least, that a character not specifically identified as non-white will be read as white unless other cultural traits are very heavily emphasized. And even then some people will miss it. (Heck, some people will miss it even when stated explicitly, but that's readers for you.)

However, you can certainly write a black character without the story needing to be About Being Black. Mention it early on--maybe a few times, casually, to make sure it sticks, like also specifying that a relative is black--and then keep on going. It doesn't have to be the focus of your story, but with the way people read stuff, you do want to get that information in early on if you don't want them picturing Yet Another White Woman anyway.
I am only worried about beating it to the ground because it is not relevant to the plot. I have encountered many readers who don't see a character is black despite it being the focus of the novel. I suppose I can make some stronger references.
__________________
So, I have this blog. It's here.
I'm also a TV writer at Geeked Out Nation
I tweet too.
AshleyEpidemic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 05:13 PM   #5
K. Trian
J'decline l'honneur d'Ítre un angel
 
K. Trian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Finlandia
Posts: 196
K. Trian is well-respected
The color can always be brought out in description without having to throw in stereotypical things. In some book that I read... either Nalo Hopkinson or Yvonne Vera described the MC's skin the color of wet beach sand. I don't know about others, but to me that conveyed a beautiful picture, even though, I guess, sand isn't the first thing one would think up when describing a skin tone. I'm pretty sure it was Hopkinson who also described one lady's skin as "caramel-brown." Conversely a white guy's complexion was more often than not described sickly white x)
__________________
The female half of a writing outfit known as T. K. Trian. We write alone together. Currently working on Solus - The Darkness of Space: a sci-fi adventure.

Our tactical center on the interwebz can be found and followed here: http://tktrian.wordpress.com/

Sci-fi -- fantasy -- horror
K. Trian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 07:11 PM   #6
Cyia
Rewriting My Destiny
 
Cyia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brillig in the slithy toves...
Posts: 13,987
Cyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by AshleyEpidemic View Post
I have described my character as black. However, I don't sit and dwell on it.

Then you should be fine
__________________
_


Cyia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 09:34 AM   #7
Kitty27
So Goth That I Was Born Black
AW Moderator
 
Kitty27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: In The Darkside's Light
Posts: 4,043
Kitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyia View Post
Dear writer,

If you don't specifically describe your MC as something other than white, most-everyone reading is going to assume she's white. It's the default.

Sincerely,
The Voice of Experience

All day.

And I also second your other post. Say,make it plain and then keep it moving.
__________________
Tupac Shakur,the greatest rapper of all time,is now in the National Recording Registry


NIGHT CALLS(Finally have a title! )YA Paranormal Romance/Urban Fantasy Novel,Coming 2014.
Vampire Writer 4 life and don't GAF.

"You've got to stop with this rap crap,Kitty. Put on some blues,gal! Feel that pain,soul and a good old time. Get with some Howling Wolf,Denise LaSalle and Johnny Taylor. Not that Snoopy boy or whatever his name is."
RC Wilcox,RIP










Kitty27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 02:52 AM   #8
slhuang
Rhymes with wrong.
 
slhuang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,195
slhuang is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsslhuang is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsslhuang is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsslhuang is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsslhuang is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsslhuang is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsslhuang is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsslhuang is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsslhuang is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsslhuang is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsslhuang is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
I try to ask the race? ethnic background? sexual orientation? etc. questions for all my characters, to avoid defaulting to white/straight/etc.. But I have a second piece of that, which is, once I answer those questions, I ask, "How does being this race/gender/sexual orientation impact the character in daily life? How much does the character consider it an important piece of identity?"

Depending on the character, the answer could range from, "not really at all" to "pervades every aspect of every minute." I try to figure out where on the spectrum my character would be, and to provide a diversity of how much different traits matter to the characters as well as providing a diversity of traits. If that makes sense.

This is just the way I write, of course, but maybe that helps?
__________________


Read Hunting Monsters at the Book Smugglers now!

Website *
Blog * Twitter * Mailing list
slhuang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 03:00 PM   #9
K. Trian
J'decline l'honneur d'Ítre un angel
 
K. Trian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Finlandia
Posts: 196
K. Trian is well-respected
Just a thought... if the story happens in a more demographically homogenous culture, and there are multiple MCs, the colors can be "revealed" when the POV changes and especially if the MCs just meet.

It might even seem a little off to a reader from said culture if I wrote a story that took place e.g. in Scandinavia and I strove for realism, and the colors (all the shades) were not somehow noted.
__________________
The female half of a writing outfit known as T. K. Trian. We write alone together. Currently working on Solus - The Darkness of Space: a sci-fi adventure.

Our tactical center on the interwebz can be found and followed here: http://tktrian.wordpress.com/

Sci-fi -- fantasy -- horror
K. Trian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 06:46 PM   #10
Maria S
practical experience, FTW
 
Maria S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 100
Maria S is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyia View Post
Dear writer,

If you don't specifically describe your MC as something other than white, most-everyone reading is going to assume she's white. It's the default.

Sincerely,
The Voice of Experience
I don't think this is entirely true. This would be true for readers who have a limited world view when it comes to race, but who cares about them? People have very specific views of what their favorite characters look like, even if its contrary to the description of the writer. I know I do that.

I've seen writers who emphasize the race of their biracial characters. One of my urban fantasy series had a half Native American character. Her heritage
played a role in the mythology and general personality of the character.

If its not relevant to the plot, I don't think it should be emphasized too much. A few random instances where someone makes a comment about her race or features might be interesting. I've seen an author do this beautifully.
Maria S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 07:55 PM   #11
Cyia
Rewriting My Destiny
 
Cyia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brillig in the slithy toves...
Posts: 13,987
Cyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Even done beautifully, the default is still white, even when you've got descriptions to the contrary.

The best examples are the District 11 tributes from The Hunger Games. Both were very clearly described as being black (or at the very least dark skinned / brown / not Caucasian in the least), yet a huge contingent of readers were completely shocked by the "revelation" or "choice" involved in casting the film.

You can put all clues and cues you want to into a novel, but unless you flat out say "Julie is a black girl." Julie is going to be assumed to be white. Even if you talk about her having brown skin, or olive skin, or being darker than her peers, she's simply Julie, the white girl with a tan. This may not be true for all readers, of course, but it's the assumed reaction when a book is published.

I wish I was making that up, but I've seen it first hand. From a business standpoint, POC in novels are still treated as surprises rather than expectations. And once "discovered," they're put into a balance and weighed as necessities, whereas before they were simply a part of the story.

Same character, same dialogue, but a whole different ballgame.
__________________
_


Cyia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 08:35 PM   #12
Maria S
practical experience, FTW
 
Maria S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 100
Maria S is on a distinguished road
What I meant was, it was done beautifully because it was obvious. The author made it clear that the character wasn't Caucasian, but she didn't emphasize the fact constantly.

I understand why readers might be surprised. I've known white people who refer to themselves as dark skinned or brown because their complexion was naturally a tan color. There are plenty of other races who also describe themselves that way. Races that aren't of African decent.

I know they're treated as surprises. We're called minorities for a reason. Its odd that the surprise is negative. These books should be embraced. PoCs are embraced in every other aspect of our media driven culture. Athletes, actors, singers, the President etc. Its very odd.

My point is, if its not a part of the plot why should it be stressed? Give a normal description instead of yelling at readers "She is black!!!" If they assume otherwise, who cares? Where ignorance is bliss, it is folly to be wise.
Maria S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 08:50 PM   #13
Cyia
Rewriting My Destiny
 
Cyia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brillig in the slithy toves...
Posts: 13,987
Cyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria S View Post
If they assume otherwise, who cares?
Ask an author with a white-washed cover, like Magic Under Glass or Liar. (The latter being more explicit in her description of her MC, and the former taking the hint and clue route.)
__________________
_


Cyia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 09:07 PM   #14
Kitty27
So Goth That I Was Born Black
AW Moderator
 
Kitty27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: In The Darkside's Light
Posts: 4,043
Kitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsKitty27 is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria S View Post
What I meant was, it was done beautifully because it was obvious. The author made it clear that the character wasn't Caucasian, but she didn't emphasize the fact constantly.

I understand why readers might be surprised. I've known white people who refer to themselves as dark skinned or brown because their complexion was naturally a tan color. There are plenty of other races who also describe themselves that way. Races that aren't of African decent.

I know they're treated as surprises. We're called minorities for a reason. Its odd that the surprise is negative. These books should be embraced. PoCs are embraced in every other aspect of our media driven culture. Athletes, actors, singers, the President etc. Its very odd.

My point is, if its not a part of the plot why should it be stressed? Give a normal description instead of yelling at readers "She is black!!!" If they assume otherwise, who cares? Where ignorance is bliss, it is folly to be wise.
It matters when it come down to cover issues as Cyia stated. If you aren't familiar with the controversy,check it out. It was a hot mess but I thank the people who stood up and raised hell with all my heart.

I read that you write racially ambiguous characters,so the cover issue wouldn't be as big of an impact as that would be correct for your characters.

But I care because I never want a character I have explicitly stated is Black to become a racially ambiguous or downright White model on the cover. It happens all too often.
__________________
Tupac Shakur,the greatest rapper of all time,is now in the National Recording Registry


NIGHT CALLS(Finally have a title! )YA Paranormal Romance/Urban Fantasy Novel,Coming 2014.
Vampire Writer 4 life and don't GAF.

"You've got to stop with this rap crap,Kitty. Put on some blues,gal! Feel that pain,soul and a good old time. Get with some Howling Wolf,Denise LaSalle and Johnny Taylor. Not that Snoopy boy or whatever his name is."
RC Wilcox,RIP










Kitty27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 08:38 AM   #15
Maria S
practical experience, FTW
 
Maria S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 100
Maria S is on a distinguished road
That makes sense, and I obviously completely agree with that. But I don't think it should affect how much you emphasize (or overemphasize) race in your writing. Shouldn't it instead be brought up with both your agent and your publisher?
Maria S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 07:27 AM   #16
akaria
practical experience, FTW
 
akaria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Brooklyn represent!
Posts: 334
akaria is well-respected
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria S View Post
I know they're treated as surprises. We're called minorities for a reason. Its odd that the surprise is negative. These books should be embraced. PoCs are embraced in every other aspect of our media driven culture. Athletes, actors, singers, the President etc. Its very odd.
The extent that PoCs have been accepted in the media is questionable. Think about how people lost their damn minds at Idris Elba playing the gate guardian in Thor. The mainstream media doesn't have a problem when PoC are in their "place". The sassy best friend, comedic relief, street thug, nanny, dispenser of wisdom, etc. Seeing them in non-stereotypical or leading roles happens a lot less.
__________________
I tweet!



akaria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 02:29 AM   #17
Cyia
Rewriting My Destiny
 
Cyia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brillig in the slithy toves...
Posts: 13,987
Cyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
I saw something today that made me think of this thread, so I thought I'd put it here since it's relevant to the question of how to handle characters who aren't specifically described as a particular race or color.

Now I came late to reading and watching Harry Potter, so I saw all of the movies back-to-back well after they came out, and I still didn't catch this on the first viewing.

Lavender Brown, Harry's classmate and Hermione's roommate is never clearly described in the novels. She's mainly background filler for the first few books, and in movies 1-5, she was portrayed by this these young woman women:

and

And I would imagine that last young woman was ecstatic to read book 6 and see the huge part her character played in it. Imagine going from living furniture to being the love interest for one of the male leads in a major motion picture franchise.

But... movie 6, the first one in which Lavender has lines and a pivotal role, the young woman above was replaced with this one:



I don't want to detract from the 2nd actress' ability or contribution, because she's not to blame for the 1st being replaced, but there's not a lot of room for interpretation here. I can't even image how hurt that first young woman must have been when she was informed that she'd no longer be playing the role she'd had for five years.

(ETA: I didn't realize the two actresses were different people. I thought it was the same young woman, only older. I've replaced the pictures accordingly.)
__________________
_



Last edited by Cyia; 12-23-2012 at 02:46 AM.
Cyia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 02:40 AM   #18
fireluxlou
practical experience, FTW
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,090
fireluxlou has a golden reputationfireluxlou has a golden reputationfireluxlou has a golden reputationfireluxlou has a golden reputationfireluxlou has a golden reputationfireluxlou has a golden reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyia View Post
I saw something today that made me think of this thread, so I thought I'd put it here since it's relevant to the question of how to handle characters who aren't specifically described as a particular race or color.

Now I came late to reading and watching Harry Potter, so I saw all of the movies back-to-back well after they came out, and I still didn't catch this on the first viewing.

Lavender Brown, Harry's classmate and Hermione's roommate is never clearly described in the novels. She's mainly background filler for the first few books, and in movies 1-5, she was portrayed by this young woman:



And I would imagine that young woman was ecstatic to read book 6 and see the huge part her character played in it. Imagine going from living furniture to being the love interest for one of the male leads in a major motion picture franchise.

But... movie 6, the first one in which Lavender has lines and a pivotal role, the young woman above was replaced with this one:



I don't want to detract from the 2nd actress' ability or contribution, because she's not to blame for the 1st being replaced, but there's not a lot of room for interpretation here. I can't even image how hurt that first young woman must have been when she was informed that she'd no longer be playing the role she'd had for five years.
She was played by two different black girls http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Kathleen_Cauley
Was replaced by: http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Jennifer_Smith

She gets confused with Kellah http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Kandice_Morris which is the photo you are linking to. :P
fireluxlou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 02:42 AM   #19
Cyia
Rewriting My Destiny
 
Cyia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brillig in the slithy toves...
Posts: 13,987
Cyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Weird. I pulled that off an article about the movie. I'll replace the actress' photo, though.
__________________
_


Cyia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 02:43 AM   #20
fireluxlou
practical experience, FTW
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,090
fireluxlou has a golden reputationfireluxlou has a golden reputationfireluxlou has a golden reputationfireluxlou has a golden reputationfireluxlou has a golden reputationfireluxlou has a golden reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyia View Post
Weird. I pulled that off an article about the movie. I'll replace the actress' photo, though.
Well she used to get confused as Lavender Brown a lot so not really :P I remember people used to speculate if she was, but Kellah is one of the few characters made up for the filmverse and not in the bookverse.
fireluxlou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 02:48 AM   #21
Cyia
Rewriting My Destiny
 
Cyia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brillig in the slithy toves...
Posts: 13,987
Cyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
See, these are the things you miss coming into phenomena late :/

My point stands, though. She'd already been recast once, as another young black girl, so why not recast the same way again once she was an integral character?
__________________
_


Cyia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 02:54 AM   #22
fireluxlou
practical experience, FTW
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,090
fireluxlou has a golden reputationfireluxlou has a golden reputationfireluxlou has a golden reputationfireluxlou has a golden reputationfireluxlou has a golden reputationfireluxlou has a golden reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyia View Post
See, these are the things you miss coming into phenomena late :/

My point stands, though. She'd already been recast once, as another young black girl, so why not recast the same way again once she was an integral character?
I have no answers except for 'it's racist' because it is and their excuses for recasting her with a white girl were pathetic too. Same as the fandom's reasons for defending the decision and it made me rage. All pretty pathetic reasons. I agree with you don't worry .
fireluxlou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 03:14 AM   #23
Cyia
Rewriting My Destiny
 
Cyia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brillig in the slithy toves...
Posts: 13,987
Cyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCyia is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireluxlou View Post
I have no answers except for 'it's racist' because it is and their excuses for recasting her with a white girl were pathetic too. Same as the fandom's reasons for defending the decision and it made me rage. All pretty pathetic reasons. I agree with you don't worry .

Especially given that the HP universe had zero qualms with inter-racial pairings.
__________________
_


Cyia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2012, 05:45 AM   #24
Kim Fierce
Attack me with everything you have.
 
Kim Fierce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,366
Kim Fierce is a splendid one to beholdKim Fierce is a splendid one to beholdKim Fierce is a splendid one to behold
In my forthcoming book, I realized that since it's the future, I wanted the characters in my world to reflect what I believe the world of the future will be like racially. I'm a white female with black family members who has wished since childhood that we were in the post-racial era already. (I believed the Sesame Street world of multi-cultures and races living in cooperative harmony and have spent the rest of my life trying to figure out why things are not really like that.) So my characters are not labeled "white" and "black" and almost everyone would be lableled "bi-racial" by our standards today. But no one calls each other by the old labels. Everyone is pale, tan, light-skinned, dark-skinned, etc. if color is mentioned at all.

I was disappointed and confused when, while picking out cover images, I chose one with a black girl. My MC has curly dark hair, light brown skin, and blue eyes. She has a pale father and dark mother. I was told that covers with black people on front wouldn't sell as well. If I had found a cover that I really believed had captured my image of the MC perfectly, I would have fought for it anyway. I think my publisher was just telling me what she believes statistically through her own experience, and since I write queer young adult fiction I'm obviously not one to pander to the market. Since the cover I had picked before wasn't quite the perfect image anyway, instead I chose one where there is a girl on a motorcycle where it all looks enflamed and she looks the same color as my avatar, which is what my cover is now. Should I have fought and dug for a cover with an image that looks exactly like my MC? I don't know . . . but I do know it was very, very hard for me to find images of girls that even remotely resembled my characters on the sites I was allowed to use. I have a light brown-skinned dark-haired girl with blue eyes who rides a solar-powered motorcycle (and like my niece, her skin gets darker in the sun as the story goes on), and her girlfriend has dark skin, golden brown eyes, and likes to skateboard. I'm working on my book trailer, and I've made sure to find images of my characters that are true to who they are.

But the main plot of the story is that the world is split into normal towns and Gay Communities. My MC is shocked when she learns that skin color ever used to be a problem for anyone, because no one judges people that way anymore. But despite that, the book is a dystopia. But my MC joins the revolution to end the divide between gay and straight.

As another note, I'm not one of those people who says "gay is the new black" or any crap like that. Judging any people is wrong, but each group has their own experience and doesn't need to be lumped in with any other or overlooked because of another. The illustration about skin color is used more to point out that the government has been destroying and hiding information from the past than to compare gay people with people of color or anything else.
__________________
Watch No Turning Back book trailer

My Web Site
Novels/Short stories:
No Turning Back
Amelia's Revolution
Two-Spirit's Red Road
My Secret Pain
The Divide, Book 1: Uprising

Nadine's Voyage--2-14!!
The Divide, Book 2: Unity--3-14!!
Strong Arrow's Warpath--4-14!!
Revolt of the Perfectly Free, paperback short story collection--6-14!!

Last edited by Kim Fierce; 12-29-2012 at 05:59 AM.
Kim Fierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Custom Search

If this site is helpful to you,
Please consider a voluntary subscription to defray ongoing expenses.

Buy Scrivener 2 for Mac OS X (Regular Licence)


All times are GMT +4.5. The time now is 01:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.