A GAME OF THRONES, SEASON 2 and 3 (yes season 3, it's here, almost), POSSIBLE SPOILERS

[CrastersBabies]

I'm hoping they'll give Littlefinger more to do, especially as the Blackwater approaches. I'm also wondering, in regard to Sansa.... (spoilers) >>>>> If they'll show more with her and the Hound? <<<<<

[rmkrisby]

I read the first book and then watched the entire first season (which I recorded, thank goodness for DVR) with my brother. Since I do not have HBO at school, it's being DVR'd at home and I am currently reading a Clash of Kings before I watch it. I'm really excited!

[thothguard51]

Originally Posted by CrastersBabies

I'm hoping they'll give Littlefinger more to do, especially as the Blackwater approaches. I'm also wondering, in regard to Sansa.... (spoilers) >>>>><<<<<

I don't see them showing more of Sansa and the hound until spoiler alter>>>. 1. the hound runs after the battle for Kings Landing. 2. Sansa doesn't meet up with the hound again until after she escapes Kings landing book 4?<<<

They missed a good chance in season one by not showing the scene where Joffrey had the Hound walk Sansa back to her room and he explained a few things to her about his past, and then threatened to kill her if she ever told anyone. He was giving the little bird a lesson and she did change her opinion of him afterwards.

The hound may be heartless, but he has shown spots of tenderness toward Sansa, like in season one when he offered her the advice to make things easier on her by not upsetting Joffrey because in the end, Joffrey is going to get what he wants. Or so is my opinion...

[CrastersBabies]

On Sansa >>>>> Sansa never escapes with the Hound. He begs her and she refuses (all before he flees after the Blackwater). I know that in one scene in the book, Joff asked him to beat her and he refused. They had such a strange relationship. Him calling her, "little bird" and such. Later, after Arya escapes from Harrenhal, The Hound finds Arya and plans on taking her to Catelyn for payment and to (perhaps) get his honor back, but they never make it to the keep before the Red Wedding occurs. The Hound gets wounded and Arya leaves him there and takes a ship.

Sansa, if I remember, does escape, I think with Littlefinger's help, and he gets her to the Eryie. Littlefinger has married Lysa by then and they plan to tell people Sansa is his daughter (until it can be revealed she is Sansa Stark). I remember Lysa freaking out and getting jealous about Sansa. <<<<<

[thothguard51]

You are correct, >>>I confused Sansa with Arya with the hound.<<<

[BunnyMaz]

Still disappointed with the handling of Littlefinger, but I enjoyed this episode a lot. Loving Brienne already. She's got just the right amount of awkwardness.

Ye Gods can they just make a show called "Tyrion does witty stuff" and cut out the rest?

[thothguard51]

Can't wait to see >>>Bree and Jamie fight<<<

[DreamWeaver]

Yes, if they don't show that I will be Seriously Displeased.

[JohnnyGottaKeyboard]

So, I have not read the books. (Sometimes it feels as if I am the only one around here.) But great things are coming for Renly and the Knight of the Flowers, right? They're going to align with the Starks and enjoy a happy and posperous reign, right? I should be excited and hopeful...right? RIGHT?

Seriously, the character played by the chick from the Tudors was great. She should have said, puhleez, he's my brother...You think I didn't know?

[thothguard51]

Johnny, all I can say is...

[MttStrn]

So I just found out that the kid who plays Joffrey is the same kid in Batman Begins who Batman gives the periscope thing to and who later Katie Holmes helps at the end.

Mind BLOWN!

[CrastersBabies]

Originally Posted by JohnnyGottaKeyboard

So, I have not read the books. (Sometimes it feels as if I am the only one around here.) But great things are coming for Renly and the Knight of the Flowers, right? They're going to align with the Starks and enjoy a happy and posperous reign, right? I should be excited and hopeful...right? RIGHT?

Seriously, the character played by the chick from the Tudors was great. She should have said, puhleez, he's my brother...You think I didn't know?

I really like Margaery. She isn't really present in book 2, but they've given her more to do which makes sense because we hear a lot about Renly and see him here and there. I'm glad they got Natalie Dormer. I think she's perfect in the role.

[thothguard51]

While I do enjoy Natalie Dormer, I can't help but think of the Tudors every time I see her smile that little crooked smile. It was the same smile she used in the Tudors.

[JohnnyGottaKeyboard]

Originally Posted by CrastersBabies

I really like Margaery. She isn't really present in book 2, but they've given her more to do which makes sense because we hear a lot about Renly and see him here and there.

In an episode that otherwise focused on duplicity (and a very literally duplicitous act), it was nice to have someone speak directly to the point and not end up immediately arrested or beheaded.

BTW, most of my last post was making fun of myself. Way back in season 1, during the "Games to celebrate the new hand" episode, I said to a friend of mine who is always raving about the books: "Oh, you didn't tell me their was a gay romance."

And he literally looked startled and said: "What? Who are you talking about?"

"Renly and TKOTF. I might have been more apt to try the books if I'd known there was a gay subplot."

Then my friend looked cagey. "Oh, yeah, that guy..." And, before I could stop him he told me what happens to Renly.

Now, I am watching the series with a group of people who also have not read the books, and I admit I had to pretend to be happy about the apparent inclusion of a gay romance subplot.

[MattW]

I like that we see more of Margaery's character.

No, seriously. She's got assets that Renly doesn't appreciate.

I like her parts in the TV show better than in books, more developed.

Boobs.

[CrastersBabies]

Originally Posted by JohnnyGottaKeyboard

In an episode that otherwise focused on duplicity (and a very literally duplicitous act), it was nice to have someone speak directly to the point and not end up immediately arrested or beheaded.

BTW, most of my last post was making fun of myself. Way back in season 1, during the "Games to celebrate the new hand" episode, I said to a friend of mine who is always raving about the books: "Oh, you didn't tell me their was a gay romance."

And he literally looked startled and said: "What? Who are you talking about?"

"Renly and TKOTF. I might have been more apt to try the books if I'd known there was a gay subplot."

Then my friend looked cagey. "Oh, yeah, that guy..." And, before I could stop him he told me what happens to Renly.

Now, I am watching the series with a group of people who also have not read the books, and I admit I had to pretend to be happy about the apparent inclusion of a gay romance subplot.

It was subtle in the books, and honestly? It went over my head the first read. But, when someone pointed it out, I thought, "oh wow, yeah, you're right!"

They'll have some girl-on-girl action. That's probably not the same.

Other possible gay storylines might include Varys. Though he's kinda missing the important manparts.

As for Margaery, I wasn't sure what to think of her in the books. I think we only see her through.... (spoilers) >>>>Sansa's perspective and Cersei's perspective... maybe a little through Tyrion's. In Sansa's perspective, she's marrying Joffrey and is beloved by all of King's Landing. Through Cersei's eyes, she's a conniving hussy. Hahaha. I like this version. <<<<<<

Also, you know who we haven't seen this season? Tywin Lannister. I need me some pappa Lannister to loathe....

[AyJay]

Episode 3 was a nice comeback from episode 2 for me. As some mentioned above, the gratuitous sex scenes were starting to turn me off, and the characters I really liked from Season 1 were either not getting enough play (Jaime, Renly) or kind of waffling around (Cersei, Jon Snow, Daenerys).

I haven't read the books. Lord, I want to but my reading queue is a mile long, and I have the impression the series would set me back years. But my general impression is the villains are much more interesting than the good guys (the ho-hum Starks). Then there's Tyrion who is interesting because he's kind of in-between, although I'm getting tetchy about his becoming such an obvious moral compass this season.

@JohnnyGottaKeyboard - Don't tell me that yet again the one gay character gets killed off in a humiliating way. I mean, I guess most of the characters get killed off in violent, debasing ways; but when writers throw in a token gay character just to set up a sick murder, it ticks me off.

[DreamWeaver]

AyJay, on that last concern: <<<possible mild spoiler>>> since many readers say they missed the gay subtext altogether, I'm pretty sure you don't have to worry. Not about his fate, just about it being because he's gay.

[JohnnyGottaKeyboard]

Originally Posted by AyJay

@JohnnyGottaKeyboard - Don't tell me that yet again the one gay character gets killed off in a humiliating way. I mean, I guess most of the characters get killed off in violent, debasing ways; but when writers throw in a token gay character just to set up a sick murder, it ticks me off.

You kind of nailed it with (the first part of) your second sentence.

I actually did have to do a small bit of research before I could commit to the series further, because I did not want to get all enraged again (it happens). In light of all the other things that happen in the story I am fine with Renly's fate, and i have a pretty low threshold for Killing The Queer (aka Bury Your Gays). But if my opinion doesn't reassure you, you can check out this slightly spoilery link, which basically gives you the Renly story without too much else--altho it does offer many tempting links.

P.S. -- SPOILER: The KOTF is, as far as I know, still alive in the latest book.

[Parametric]

I think Renly's death is in keeping with the general level of violent death in the series. The problem, imo, is that only 0.000001% of the billion characters in the series are gay. If there were hundreds of gay characters - some who lived, some who died, some who suffered, some who prospered - then it wouldn't seem so problematic. As it is, the only real, loving LGBT relationship we see in the series ends in a horrible death.

[dragonjax]

Originally Posted by Parametric

As it is, the only real, loving LGBT relationship we see in the series ends in a horrible death.

We actually don't see the relationship per se in the books. It's alluded to, but we don't actually see it.

There are other gay characters, IIRC. But real, thriving relationships? I don't think so.

Then again, most of the relationships in the books aren't exactly healthy.

[thothguard51]

Originally Posted by dragonjax

Then again, most of the relationships in the books aren't exactly healthy.

With Martin's background in soaps, I don't think he knows how to write a healthy/loving relationship that does not meet some tragedy...

[dragonjax]

Originally Posted by thothguard51

With Martin's background in soaps, I don't think he knows how to write a healthy/loving relationship that does not meet some tragedy...

I think the best characters can hope for is dying in their beds, from old age. Or, at least, in their sleep.

Let's see. By the third episode of season two, we've already seen:

Incest.
Adultery.
Infanticide.
Regicide.
Lots of attempted murders.
Murder for sport (Dosthraki wedding celebration; jousting).
Murder as part of war.
Murder as compassion (Drogo).
Murder as justice (Ned beheading the runaway from the Wall; Dany burning the witch alive).
Torture.

And that's what the characters call "Tuesday."

Healthy relationships? I don't think that's even possible in Westros, Pentos, or any of the lands of that world.

[CrastersBabies]

Whoah spoiler alert above on Renly's fate!!

On Renly.... >>> I too was okay with his fate. He's an interesting character, but, in truth, he isn't exactly king material. He has the charisma but lacks the ability to make the hard decision which was displayed in giving in to Brienne's request. If we could merge Stannis and Renly together, we'd make one hell of a ruler. Add in Robert and it would have been utter perfectly. Each Baratheon seems to possess ingredients of a good leader, but not the whole shebang.

I was more upset at Renly's death because of how it impacted Cat and Brienne and how it painted them both as guilty of murder. I HOPE we get to see this in the next episode. Someone I know who has already seen it (he runs a big westeros forum) has hinted that the next two eps will generate a LOT of buzz.

Not to mention Melisandre's "love child" that will uh... yeah. That's gonna be one heck of a scene. >>>>

Back to series-only comments. Renly isn't fit to rule as king. He's too much the boy who likes all the "fun" that comes with being named a king. As Cat said, being a leader and "playing at it" are two different things. Robb is out there winning battles. Renly is watching his Knight of Flowers compete in "games" and avoiding his husband-duties.

Spoiler on the knight of flowers (Loras) >>>> I think he is alive, yes, in the last book. I seem to recall he was burnt horribly and still lingers in pain. Poor guy. Good grief. <<<<<

[dragonjax]

Guys...you realize that some of the spoilers are for things that won't happen this season, right?

Maybe we should go back to having a TV-only thread and a book-and-TV thread? Seems very unfair to be posting spoilers based on the books, on scenes and situations that won't take place for at least a season.