how to put it?

[catian]

In one of my opening paragraphs I need to descrive a sign for one of my ''house'' scenes.
Something similar to this but I need an opposite
An example of what I mean:

Open /Closed

Busy/ Available

Engaged/Free

I have one sign ready like this:

House Free Smoke

I am looking for the opposite

House Allowed Smoke?

This does not seem to be right.
Much help appreciated.

[Bufty]

I really have to scratch my head sometimes to know what you are asking, catian, and sometimes I wonder if this is the right site to be asking all these questions but in this case I think the sign you are looking for has nothing to do with the house allowed to smoke or not.

Your sign presumably is being aimed at people in the house, not at the house itself.

No Smoking - is what you're after. Or Please do not smoke, or Smoke Free Zone, or Non-smokers only, or ...

These signs can be seen everywhere one goes. Have you not seen them?

Any help?

[catian]

Originally Posted by Bufty

I really have to scratch my head sometimes to know what you are asking, catian, and sometimes I wonder if this is the right site to be asking all these questions but in this case I think the sign you are looking for has nothing to do with the house allowed to smoke or not.

Your sign presumably is being aimed at people in the house, not at the house itself.

No Smoking - is what you're after. Or Please do not smoke, or Smoke Free Zone, or Non-smokers only, or ...

These signs can be seen everywhere one goes. Have you not seen them?

Any help?

Hello Bufty
Thank you for your reply.
I am trying to say to write up a sign that says the opposite of this
House Free Smoke which indicates that in this particular house no one smokes.
Now I am trying to figure the opposite of this to try and say that it is allowed to smoke in this house using same format as the one above.
House-------smoke to indicate that it is allowed to smoke.

[alleycat]

Smoking Allowed

[Mr Flibble]

House Free Smoke which indicates that in this particular house no one smokes.

I think Smoke Free House would be more appropriate.

But in the absence of any no smoking signs...would you need one that says you can smoke? Most people don't have signs in their houses regarding smoking (Whether you can or can't). If you really must, why not 'Smoking permitted' or 'Sod the smoking ban, spark up' or similar?

[ArtsyAmy]

I'm wondering if the reason the wording you're using sounds unusual might have something to do with your being in London, while I'm in the USA. Is "House Free Smoke" something that is commonly written in London? I've never seen it here. We do use the term "smoke-free," as in "This is a Smoke-Free Workplace" on a sign inside an office building. Perhaps "No Smoking Permitted" and "Smoking Permitted" might work for you.

Seems to me "Smoking Permitted" wouldn't be a very common point to make, as I think someone else mentioned--if it's permitted, then there would be an absence of a no-smoking notice, not the presence of a smoking permitted notice. However, in buildings where smoking is prohibited, sometimes a small area is set aside where people may smoke, so that they don't try to sneak cigs elsewhere in the building--might be a "Smoking Permitted"-type sign there.

[mirandashell]

Originally Posted by ArtsyAmy

I'm wondering if the reason the wording you're using sounds unusual might have something to do with your being in London, while I'm in the USA. Is "House Free Smoke" something that is commonly written in London? I've never seen it here.

Errr.... no!

I think the confusion is caused by English not being Catian's first language. Am I right, Catian? Your sentences like the above have more of a... Spanish (or maybe Italian) construction to them.

[Bufty]

From catian's answer yesterday in the thread in this Forum captioned - the meaning behind the word :-.

Indeed English is not my first language and yes I am a French and Spanish teacher by trade.

I'm simply curious here, catian. How long have you been learning English? I ask because as you apparently teach languages I would imagine you would be able to comprehend and master the idiosyncracies and nuances of English faster than most.

Originally Posted by mirandashell

Errr.... no!

I think the confusion is caused by English not being Catian's first language. Am I right, Catian? Your sentences like the above have more of a... Spanish (or maybe Italian) construction to them.

[catian]

Originally Posted by Bufty

From catian's answer yesterday in the thread in this Forum captioned - the meaning behind the word :-.



I'm simply curious here, catian. How long have you been learning English? I ask because as you apparently teach languages I would imagine you would be able to comprehend and master the idiosyncracies and nuances of English faster than most.

French is my first language.
I have been living in London for more than sixteen years.
I specialise in French then Spanish.
It is different from English totally.
Although I understand and can converse in English the constructions of a Latin derivative language is very different from a Germanic language.
I tend to mixt the latin syntax with English when it comes to writing. It does not come naturally to me unfortunately.
The above post is asking is a similar version
Smoke Free House
only where on is saying it is not Smoke Free.

[catian]

Originally Posted by mirandashell

Errr.... no!

I think the confusion is caused by English not being Catian's first language. Am I right, Catian? Your sentences like the above have more of a... Spanish (or maybe Italian) construction to them.

You are right on this mirandashell.
French is my first language.

[catian]

Originally Posted by alleycat

Smoking Allowed

so

Smoke Free House
would be the opposite of
Smoking Allowed
but then this would go
Smoking disallowed.


there is no other expression to equal the first one...

[catian]

Originally Posted by IdiotsRUs

I think Smoke Free House would be more appropriate.

But in the absence of any no smoking signs...would you need one that says you can smoke? Most people don't have signs in their houses regarding smoking (Whether you can or can't). If you really must, why not 'Smoking permitted' or 'Sod the smoking ban, spark up' or similar?

LOL sod the smoking ban is too funny

Smoking Not Permitted
goes with
Smoking Permitted.

That's it I am trying to equal in opposite
Smoke Free House
and
Smoke Open House?

[LynnKHollander]

Actually, the absence of any sign and the presence of ashtrays answers the problem in a social sense.
Beyond that, I would say the 'Smoke Free House' is an idiom, and can't be directly negated. This isn't a Smoke Free House or Not a Smoke Free House in English would be understood, but if what you're searching for is a simple direct negation, I think you're doomed to disappointment

[Snick]

If I were to write two signs one of which would indicate that smoking was not permitted in a given house, and the other was to say the opposite, then I probably would go with "Smoking forbidden" and "Smoking permitted".

[Detri Redmond]

Originally Posted by LynnKHollander

Actually, the absence of any sign and the presence of ashtrays answers the problem in a social sense.
Beyond that, I would say the 'Smoke Free House' is an idiom, and can't be directly negated. This isn't a Smoke Free House or Not a Smoke Free House in English would be understood, but if what you're searching for is a simple direct negation, I think you're doomed to disappointment

I'm assuming Catian wants a sign for a comic effect. Something similar to the ironic tee shirts thing.

[catian]

Originally Posted by Jamesaritchie

I have no idea what either of these means. Do you mean "Smoke Free House" and "Smoking Allowed in House"?

Yes something like this.
Although I thought Smoke Open House kind of rhyme with the first one.

[catian]

Originally Posted by Detri Redmond

I'm assuming Catian wants a sign for a comic effect. Something similar to the ironic tee shirts thing.

Haha. What is the ironic tee shirt thing?

[Bufty]

I may be cynical but I am finding it hard to comprehend how someone who has lived in London for 18 years can come up with the phrase 'House Free Smoke'.

Catian, what was the equivalent French or Spanish sign that when translated caused you to think of House Free Smoke?

I've only spent days - many years ago - in either France or Spain and I know their signs for no-smoking or no-spitting or whatever.

You mention using the sign in an opening paragraph so I assume it's for use in a novel, not a poem - written in English.

Is there something we don't know and perhaps should, or were you just trolling trawling for a funny turn of phrase?

Sorry, but I'm curious by nature.

[Dr.Gonzo]

What kind of house is this? A public house? A B&B? What?

I think you're being too rigid about this. It isn't always the exact opposite you need. Also, you don't normally see signs saying Smoking Allowed. Usually you see No Smoking or nothing, and then if you're within the smoking laws, then you smoke. But, Smoking Allowed would be what I'd use if I was inclined as you are while maintaining some semblance to normaility.

[BethS]

Originally Posted by catian

That's it I am trying to equal in opposite
Smoke Free House
and
Smoke Open House?

A smoke-free house is a house in which no one has smoked. I don't think there is a direct opposite to that, not in the sense of "smoking permitted" or "smoking not permitted."

But you could phrase it the way it's done in hotels. They have smoking rooms and non-smoking rooms. So would a non-smoking house and smoking house work for you?

[catian]

Originally Posted by Dr.Gonzo

What kind of house is this? A public house? A B&B? What?

I think you're being too rigid about this. It isn't always the exact opposite you need. Also, you don't normally see signs saying Smoking Allowed. Usually you see No Smoking or nothing, and then if you're within the smoking laws, then you smoke. But, Smoking Allowed would be what I'd use if I was inclined as you are while maintaining some semblance to normaility.

This is a normal house.
A Smoke Free House means no ones actually smokes in the house.
There is a party coming up in my story in which the owner wishes to advertise that the house is not Smoke Free but open to smoking if you like.

[catian]

Originally Posted by BethS

A smoke-free house is a house in which no one has smoked. I don't think there is a direct opposite to that, not in the sense of "smoking permitted" or "smoking not permitted."

But you could phrase it the way it's done in hotels. They have smoking rooms and non-smoking rooms. So would a non-smoking house and smoking house work for you?

Hi BethS thank you for your kind post.
These two examples you gave are perfect.
I think when the idea came about I thought of Smoke Free and then I wanted to reverse it to the opposite.
You are right there may not be a direct opposite.
I was thinking
you can a say a person is free
and then
a person is unfree? not free is better.
I came up with Smoke Free House and Smoke Open House is the closest.

[catian]

Originally Posted by Bufty

I may be cynical but I am finding it hard to comprehend how someone who has lived in London for 18 years can come up with the phrase 'House Free Smoke'.

Catian, what was the equivalent French or Spanish sign that when translated caused you to think of House Free Smoke?

I've only spent days - many years ago - in either France or Spain and I know their signs for no-smoking or no-spitting or whatever.

You mention using the sign in an opening paragraph so I assume it's for use in a novel, not a poem - written in English.

Is there something we don't know and perhaps should, or were you just trolling trawling for a funny turn of phrase?

Sorry, but I'm curious by nature.

I do that quite often in English.
French syntax tend to be the exact opposite from its English one.
I was meant to say Smoke Free House. See above.
I just wanted to know whether there was a direct opposite.

[EMaree]

The only time I ever see the phrase 'Smoke Free House' is on EBay auctions, where you'll see this item comes from a smoke free house. This is used to tell buyers that the product they're buying will not smell like cigarette smoke, because it comes from a non-smokers house.

For a party, the home owner might write 'smoking allowed' on an invitation or your character could notice ash trays or other people already smoking.

[BethS]

Originally Posted by catian

There is a party coming up in my story in which the owner wishes to advertise that the house is not Smoke Free but open to smoking if you like.

Then he would say, or put up a sign that said, "Smoking permitted." That would sound the most natural.