Authors should really stop telling readers how to give reviews

[DBrimson]

Originally Posted by yayeahyeah

Hi Dougie.

Speaking of concerning issues regarding reviews, given the above few posts include discussion of a reviewer receiving death threats from a fan of author Ellen Giffin, can I ask if you still think 'naming and shaming' people you believe belong to the Amazon Review Mafia is a good idae?

I would never name nor shame anyone and I would certainly hope that the forces of law and order would deal with anyone who makes such threats.

However, whilst this is an extreme case, it is sadly not the only one I have heard of some of which involve reviewers contacting and threatening authors. Indeed my very real fear is that at some point someone is going to tip over the edge and we will have a serious issue to contend with.

But this isn't simply an issue of authors reacting badly to reviews, it's much bigger than that. It's authors failing to understand what reviews actually mean and how to deal with them (or not as the case may be) as well as failing to understand the responsibilities they have to potential readers when they put work up for sale. It's also about reviewers pushing buttons to provoke reactions whilst hiding behind a cloak of perceived anonymity.

And that's just the start!

[yayeahyeah]

Originally Posted by DBrimson

I must also be clear that I have not nor will I publicly name anyone involved in this matter.

Glad to hear that, Dougie! You might want to get in touch with your friends at STGRB who posted what they claimed was a private message from you saying that you had offered to help them expose these people.

http://stopthegrbullies.com/2012/07/...-review-mafia/

Given their track record includes publishing real names, locations, and where people work I assumed that your offer meant that you were intending to help them do this - I'm very pleased to hear you're not going to stoop that low.

http://gossamerobsessions.blogspot.c...s-on-fire.html

[willietheshakes]

Originally Posted by Captcha

Crazy behaviour is to be expected among the riffraff, but it's shocking when a commercially published author acts up.

At this point in time, and given the evidence?

Yes.

[Amadan]

Originally Posted by yayeahyeah

Glad to hear that, Dougie! You might want to get in touch with your friends at STGRB who posted what they claimed was a private message from you saying that you had offered to help them expose these people.

http://stopthegrbullies.com/2012/07/...-review-mafia/

Oops. Busted.


Also, I had a look at the STGRB post about Emily Giffin. They really aren't criticizing Giffin, they're just saying she didn't handle the "bullies" who are picking on her well.


Loved this too:

Now, Melissa Douthit has been pretty quiet these past couple months, staying out of all the chaos swirling around the book community, which is why we were surprised to see her finally break her silence and step in to set the record straight:

Wow, I'm totally fooledconvinced, aren't you?

[Buffysquirrel]

Originally Posted by Captcha

The second comment... well, none of us really have any idea of the motivation of the STGRB person. Speculating that it's because of jealousy suggests that there's a hierarchy at work, right? and that commercial publication is something to admire while self-publication is not, just as a tiger cub is something special while a house cat (no matter how absolutely adorable!) is not.

He is adorable, isn't he?

You can posit the existence of a hierarchy without being contemptuous of those you may perceive* as lower down in it than yourself, surely? Do you think Uncle Jim is also slamming the Great Unpublished like myself who might well envy someone in, say, his position?

*rightly or wrongly

Also

Ok, I read the post regarding the Amazon Review Mafia (rly?). Is it really that surprising, on the face of it, that there should be an overlap in membership between here, GR, and Amazon, which are all are sites about...books*?

(*yes, Amazon sells other things too, I know)

[DBrimson]

Originally Posted by Amadan

Oops. Busted.

How exactly am I 'busted'? Because my email was quoted on STGRB? Big deal.

It's no secret that I gave my permission for them to do that nor is it any secret that I've corresponded with the owners of the site. Indeed, I've just commented on a thread there.

I've nothing to hide, I'll talk to anybody about this issue because I want to try and bring about some kind of resolution for the good of both reviewers and authors. After all, damage is being done to both sides here and no one is winning. Least of all publishing.

However, what I will say with regard to STGRB is that whilst IF TRUE not everything they've done in the past would sit comfortably with me, I certainly don't believe all of the negative hype about them. Indeed, I've seen plenty of equally unacceptable things posted on both Amazon and Goodreads yet they have passed by with barely a comment.

At the end of the day, it's all very well for reviewers to condemn authors who react badly to negative reviews, but no one forces the reviewers to react to those comments. Maybe if a few people remembered that, we'd have less problems to worry about.

[VanessaNorth]

Originally Posted by DBrimson

How exactly am I 'busted'? Because my email was quoted on STGRB? Big deal.

It's no secret that I gave my permission for them to do that nor is it any secret that I've corresponded with the owners of the site. Indeed, I've just commented on a thread there.

I've nothing to hide, I'll talk to anybody about this issue because I want to try and bring about some kind of resolution for the good of both reviewers and authors. After all, damage is being done to both sides here and no one is winning. Least of all publishing.

However, what I will say with regard to STGRB is that whilst IF TRUE not everything they've done in the past would sit comfortably with me, I certainly don't believe all of the negative hype about them. Indeed, I've seen plenty of equally unacceptable things posted on both Amazon and Goodreads yet they have passed by with barely a comment.

At the end of the day, it's all very well for reviewers to condemn authors who react badly to negative reviews, but no one forces the reviewers to react to those comments. Maybe if a few people remembered that, we'd have less problems to worry about.

We'd probably have fewer problems to worry about if all authors everywhere acted like grownups.

[James D. Macdonald]

Originally Posted by DBrimson

...whilst IF TRUE...

Oh, it's true all right.

But I'm fascinated. Could you tell me which reviewers called up which authors at home to tell them to commit suicide? Could you mention which reviewers posted which authors' home addresses and suggested that they should be "stopped"?

There's a good side and a bad side here. And STGRB is on the bad side. Those who ally with her, who offer to help her, join her on the bad side.

[yayeahyeah]

Originally Posted by DBrimson

However, what I will say with regard to STGRB is that whilst IF TRUE not everything they've done in the past would sit comfortably with me, I certainly don't believe all of the negative hype about them.

Did you click on the link I directed you to?

http://gossamerobsessions.blogspot.c...s-on-fire.html

[DBrimson]

Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

Oh, it's true all right.

But I'm fascinated. Could you tell me which reviewers called up which authors at home to tell them to commit suicide? Could you mention which reviewers posted which authors' home addresses and suggested that they should be "stopped"?

There's a good side and a bad side here. And STGRB is on the bad side. Those who ally with her, who offer to help her, join her on the bad side.

Are you aware that there is growing suspicion that large parts of this story are nothing more than a marketing ploy?

And there is good and bad on both sides. The trouble is, people are so entrenched that they don't want to see it.

[DBrimson]

Originally Posted by yayeahyeah

Did you click on the link I directed you to?

http://gossamerobsessions.blogspot.c...s-on-fire.html

I did. It's not even one side of what is clearly a very complicated and contentious story.

[Kricket]

Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

Oh, it's true all right.

But I'm fascinated. Could you tell me which reviewers called up which authors at home to tell them to commit suicide? Could you mention which reviewers posted which authors' home addresses and suggested that they should be "stopped"?

There's a good side and a bad side here. And STGRB is on the bad side. Those who ally with her, who offer to help her, join her on the bad side.

Originally Posted by DBrimson

Are you aware that there is growing suspicion that large parts of this story are nothing more than a marketing ploy?

And there is good and bad on both sides. The trouble is, people are so entrenched that they don't want to see it.

*Bolding Mine*

Say ?

I've been reading this thread for a long time, and this just confuses the hell out of me.

Please explain.

[thebloodfiend]

Originally Posted by DBrimson

Are you aware that there is growing suspicion that large parts of this story are nothing more than a marketing ploy?

And there is good and bad on both sides. The trouble is, people are so entrenched that they don't want to see it.

Really? Links?

All of us can read. It's very cut and dry in regards to STGRB.

Unless you have some secrety-secret source of info beyond that of what we're aware of, I have no idea what you're talking about. STGRB has never done anything positive.

[yayeahyeah]

Originally Posted by DBrimson

I did. It's not even one side of what is clearly a very complicated and contentious story.

Did you look at the screenshots showing the confidential information that STGRB had posted?

[veinglory]

People acting like people is a far more likely explanation than a very subtle marketing ploy for who-knows-what.

[DBrimson]

Originally Posted by thebloodfiend

Really? Links?

All of us can read. It's very cut and dry in regards to STGRB.

Unless you have some secrety-secret source of info beyond that of what we're aware of, I have no idea what you're talking about. STGRB has never done anything positive.

It's all over the Amazon forums. Pop over and have a look yourself.

I totally disagree... it's kick started the debate and provided an alternative opinion on a problem which is clearly growing.

[DBrimson]

Originally Posted by yayeahyeah

Did you look at the screenshots showing the confidential information that STGRB had posted?

Yes. And I'm happy with the explanation provided by the people at STGRB regarding the background to those posts and the reasons why they were taken down.

To repeat myself I do not advocate the posting of personal information on the internet in any way shape or form. However, it is also worth noting that if people go on the attack, they have to understand that one day someone is going to turn round and fight back. Sometimes, that person will fight dirty, it's human nature. So the best thing to do is not attack.

[Amadan]

Originally Posted by DBrimson

Are you aware that there is growing suspicion that large parts of this story are nothing more than a marketing ploy?

And there is good and bad on both sides. The trouble is, people are so entrenched that they don't want to see it.

Do enlighten us. We're all very active readers who pay attention to blogs, reviews, publishers and authors, Amazon, Goodreads, we're all over, so please tell us the startling facts you are in possession of which we have overlooked.

This "everyone looks equally bad" crap is just that - crap. It's what the people on the bad side always say. Sure, of course there are reviewers who are assholes and write stupid things. But there is a huge differential here.

[thebloodfiend]

Originally Posted by DBrimson

It's all over the Amazon forums. Pop over and have a look yourself.

I totally disagree... it's kick started the debate and provided an alternative opinion on a problem which is clearly growing.

An alternative opinion?


Can you explain your other point? And give a link? I'm not going to go searching for info that you should provide if you make the claim.

[yayeahyeah]

Originally Posted by yayeahyeah

Did you look at the screenshots showing the confidential information that STGRB had posted?

Originally Posted by DBrimson

Yes.

So do you agree that their behaviour when they did that was despicable?

[yayeahyeah]

Originally Posted by DBrimson

Yes. And I'm happy with the explanation provided by the people at STGRB regarding the background to those posts and the reasons why they were taken down.

What reasons are they? I thought the STGRB mob were just completely denying they ever posted that?

[Kricket]

I did some of the work for you DB, and I don't think it's much in your favor.

I found his original thread on Amazon. Here

It's freakishly long and somewhere towards the end it gets way off track but the first couple pages are very much like it's been here for the last few.

Just sayin'

[thebloodfiend]

Originally Posted by Kricket

I found his original thread on Amazon.

I love the first reply.

[Kricket]

Originally Posted by thebloodfiend

I love the first reply.

I know right? So clever.

Anyway, DB, I'd love to know what you're trying to accomplish here.

[BenPanced]

Originally Posted by Captcha

The first comment was "Shockingly, this one is commercially published. I'm really disappointed in her, as if she'd let down the side."

I assume it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but, yeah, I think it was a slam against self-published authors. Crazy behaviour is to be expected among the riffraff, but it's shocking when a commercially published author acts up.

The second comment... well, none of us really have any idea of the motivation of the STGRB person. Speculating that it's because of jealousy suggests that there's a hierarchy at work, right? and that commercial publication is something to admire while self-publication is not, just as a tiger cub is something special while a house cat (no matter how absolutely adorable!) is not.

Maybe "bash" was too strong of a word, but I think both comments reinforce an attitude in which self-publication is clearly inferior to commercial publication. If the thread was about self-publication vs. commercial publication (again), fine, but shoehorning it into this thread seems needless and dismissive of the accomplishments of the AW members who are having significant success through self-publication.

Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

None of whom are running around attacking reviewers.

Originally Posted by Captcha

Right!

There's lots of well-behaved and professional self-published authors out there!

And if you read his credits, Uncle Jim is one of them.