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Old 11-26-2011, 01:13 AM   #126
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Heh. Kuwi said shit.
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:15 AM   #127
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What premium? Competitor tablets haven't really been able to undercut the iPad yet. At least none of the ones with the comparable performance and user experience. The only ones that are much cheaper make compromises or only became cheaper when put on sale at a loss to clear out inventory after not selling.
Knew I would step on an Apple fan's toes with that comment.
Usually I preface such comments with "for my needs" just to preempt that long-standing debate. I've seen the iPad1/2 and its competitors and, for my needs, I can't see spending the extra money. That said, I bought my wife an iPhone 4 and she has a MacBook.
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:21 AM   #128
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Knew I would step on an Apple fan's toes with that comment.
Usually I preface such comments with "for my needs" just to preempt that long-standing debate. I've seen the iPad1/2 and its competitors and, for my needs, I can't see spending the extra money. That said, I bought my wife an iPhone 4 and she has a MacBook.
No problem. The Nook Tablet looks like a very nice device to me, but neither it nor the Fire really compete in the same space as the iPad, and the fire sale prices of the Touchpad or the Playbook aren't exactly sustainable as a business model.

If I were looking into getting a non-iPad tablet, the Asus Transformer and Transformer Prime look good to me, but they fall into a pretty comparable price range.
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:23 AM   #129
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erotic romance books.
This is completely off topic, but what is erotic romance?
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:27 AM   #130
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No problem. The Nook Tablet looks like a very nice device to me, but neither it nor the Fire really compete in the same space as the iPad, and the fire sale prices of the Touchpad or the Playbook aren't exactly sustainable as a business model.
I should dig out the review a pretty knowledgeable tech friend did comparing the new "Fire" to the other e-readers. Pretty much echoed your comments. But I also think Amazon can continue to lose a few bucks on the "Fire" considering its function as a feeder for other purchases.

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If I were looking into getting a non-iPad tablet, the Asus Transformer and Transformer Prime look good to me, but they fall into a pretty comparable price range.
Good points!
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:32 AM   #131
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Heh. Kuwi said shit.
It's true. I generally prefer sexual to scatological profanity.

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This is completely off topic, but what is erotic romance?
It's a dangerous and dirty addiction with which people like SP are afflicted.

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I should dig out the review a pretty knowledgeable tech friend did comparing the new "Fire" to the other e-readers. Pretty much echoed your comments. But I also think Amazon can continue to lose a few bucks on the "Fire" considering its function as a feeder for other purchases.
I believe a tear down revealed Amazon actually is selling the Fire at a loss, with the intention of making it up in content sales.

Here are the Ars reviews of the Kindle Fire and the Nook Tablet. Their conclusions are more or less that the Fire is a good window into Amazon's content ecosystem, but the software isn't very polished otherwise. The Nook Tablet has generally better hardware, smoother software, and is an all-around better experience, but the sustainability of its app ecosystem is questionable.
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:37 AM   #132
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It's a dangerous and dirty addiction with which people like SP are afflicted.
I CAN QUIT ANY TIME I WANT!
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:38 AM   #133
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I CAN QUIT ANY TIME I WANT!
Why don't I believe you?
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Old 11-26-2011, 02:09 AM   #134
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I don't really like the Kindle idea. I understand it, but I just don't like it. Call me old fashioned, but what was wrong with print? It worked perfectly fine for hundreds and thousands of years.

I mean, I did consider buying one and I suppose in the long run it saves money, but I just don't like reading off of a screen. Never have, probably never will. I mean, forum posts and stuff I'm fine with, but reading entire novels on a handheld screen? I'll pass thanks.

I foresee a bleak future where anyone caught reading a proper book, as in words printed with ink onto paper and bound together, will be mocked viciously for being behind the times in the age where everyone can access 50,000 books on their handheld device. But I like my books. If I didn't I wouldn't have bought so many of them that incorrect weight distribution of them broke my gigantic shelf.

I'm aware I sound like someone's un-hip dad right now, but damn it sometimes those crotchety old blighters are right about stuff! I'm not too big on iPads either now I think of it.
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Old 11-26-2011, 02:18 AM   #135
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I don't really like the Kindle idea. I understand it, but I just don't like it. Call me old fashioned, but what was wrong with print? It worked perfectly fine for hundreds and thousands of years.
And yet you're typing posts on a computer, rather than carving hieroglyphs on a cave wall.
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Old 11-26-2011, 03:12 AM   #136
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And yet you're typing posts on a computer, rather than carving hieroglyphs on a cave wall.
I realise this flaw in my logic, but I am nothing if not a master of irony and contradiction so I embrace this failing.

Plus I never said I have a big problem writing on a computer, but reading novels or just big chunks of text off a screen for prolonged periods of time just messes with my eyes.
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Old 11-26-2011, 03:29 AM   #137
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I don't really like the Kindle idea. I understand it, but I just don't like it. Call me old fashioned, but what was wrong with print? It worked perfectly fine for hundreds and thousands of years.
Your post reads as if you are buying into someone else's argument -- namely the idea that this is an either/or proposition.

It isn't. It's more a question of, as a reader, which method works best at whatever given time and situation we are in or are going to be in (vacation, school, traveling, home.)

Related to that is: Which format(s) will best suit our readers, most often, and then most cost effectively? This is also not an either/or discussion.

Forex:
Reader me likes book in hand, but on the couch, on a rainy day. Reader me also likes a stack of books at my fingertips when I travel.

There is no good reason, as yet, to give up either one.
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Old 11-26-2011, 03:56 AM   #138
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I don't really like the Kindle idea. I understand it, but I just don't like it. Call me old fashioned, but what was wrong with print? It worked perfectly fine for hundreds and thousands of years.

I mean, I did consider buying one and I suppose in the long run it saves money, but I just don't like reading off of a screen. Never have, probably never will. I mean, forum posts and stuff I'm fine with, but reading entire novels on a handheld screen? I'll pass thanks.
For me, it's just easier to carry my phone and tablet than a phone, a tablet, and a book.

And when I can only carry my phone, my place in my book is wirelessly synced to that, so I can keep reading where I was on my phone if I want.

But yeah, all of that really depends on not minding reading off a screen, which I don't.
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:33 AM   #139
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I don't really like the Kindle idea. I understand it, but I just don't like it. Call me old fashioned, but what was wrong with print? It worked perfectly fine for hundreds and thousands of years.
So did wooden cartwheels. And cooking things on a stick over a fire.

Quote:
I mean, I did consider buying one and I suppose in the long run it saves money, but I just don't like reading off of a screen. Never have, probably never will. I mean, forum posts and stuff I'm fine with, but reading entire novels on a handheld screen? I'll pass thanks.
You realize that reading an e-ink screen is not like reading a computer or phone screen, right?

Quote:
I'm aware I sound like someone's un-hip dad right now, but damn it sometimes those crotchety old blighters are right about stuff! I'm not too big on iPads either now I think of it.
No, you just sound like that guy who always shows up in these threads talking about how nothing can replace the smell of paper and bathtubsbatteriesreadingonabeachAmazonwilldeletemy libraryohnoes!
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:44 AM   #140
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Just a suggestion (actually, more than a suggestion), let's keep the debate on friendly terms.

I hate to delete other people's posts, but I will.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:11 AM   #141
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I don't really like the Kindle idea. I understand it, but I just don't like it. Call me old fashioned, but what was wrong with print? It worked perfectly fine for hundreds and thousands of years.
Well, no, print didn't work "perfectly fine for hundreds and thousands of years."

Print in the West is less than a thousand years old. Even if you want to look at Chinese block printing with reusable "type," it only goes back to the 11th century.

And for a lot of people with vision problems, print doesn't work at all.

The printed codex book isn't going to disappear soon—though the paperbacks you buy this year might be in very bad shape in ten years.
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Old 11-26-2011, 12:01 PM   #142
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I've found that with the E-Ink screen rather than a backlit screen the difference between that and a page of actual ink printed on paper really makes little difference to me. It's a page of text and it's the content that matters, rather than the fact I'm pressing a button rather than turning a page. If I'm thinking more about the medium than the content isn't holding my attention in the way it should be.
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Old 11-26-2011, 04:32 PM   #143
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I'd stake every penny on my bank account on my migraines being the worst of anyone on AW, but I still manage to read okay on an ereader.

E-ink is nothing like a backlit computer screen, which can play havoc with my head, especially my vision (ability to focus, depth perception). There is no glare on an ereader; it's just like reading a normal book.
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Old 11-26-2011, 04:44 PM   #144
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I agree, in fact with the ability to increase the text size, it is easier and often less migraine inducing for me to read via an e-reader.

I still read printed books, and I read ebooks, but not enough of either. I want more
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Old 11-26-2011, 04:47 PM   #145
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:53 PM   #146
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One good thing about e-readers or reader apps is that they make reading more comfortable. I have MS and on bad days the act of holding a book can be extremely painful. Having books on the Kindle app on my laptop means that I can read for as long as my eyes can take it, without causing me discomfort. I'm re-reading Lord Of The Rings at the moment and it's one big-ass book to hold for any length of time.

Another good thing about e-readers is that I find that I'm reading a wider variety of genres and authors than ever before, thanks largely to cheap and free e-books. If I've enjoyed a free ebook I'll make a concerted effort to seek out further (paid for) works by that author.

The format debate will continue for as long as different formats exist, but I doubt that paper books are in any danger of dying out in the foreseeable future. I love browsing in bookshops and the smell of books (maybe I'm just weird). This is something that e-readers cannot replace.
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Old 11-27-2011, 04:08 AM   #147
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We don't have Nook or B&N here either...

I'm still considering a Kindle, but for the price, I can't justify it right now, not after just getting a new laptop.

I also can't justify it when I have about 40 books in my TBR pile - so buying 20 $1 books won't mean they actually get read, you know?
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Old 11-27-2011, 04:23 AM   #148
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My Kindle just arrived this afternoon and I'm already loving it.
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Old 11-27-2011, 04:37 AM   #149
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I'm a little weird on the print vs. e-book debate of principles...

Like, yes, I love my print books. But then, I've never read an e-book on an actual e-reader. I've read a few AWers books on my computer, but that isn't an eInk screen, and it's not the same "hold and press button to turn page" thing as an ereader. On a computer, I'm invariably reading in .doc or .pdf format, where it's a HUGE screen of text (the worst part being left-to-right width) and having to use a mouse to go from page to page.

So I'm sure an ereader will be more pleasurable than reading from a computer.

My sense of smell is pretty weak. Generally, I only smell really strong smells... So the smell of paper isn't something I'm really accustomed to.

Having to hold open a book to the right page makes it hard for me to grab a drink or whatever when I still want to keep reading. An ereader can just be put down, no messing about with bookmarks.

But then, an ereader doesn't have cover art (Note: I mean, the Kindle itself doesn't take on the art of the book you're currently reading), and it's harder to browse your TBR pile... Like, you'd have to navigate an ereader's display to see what hasn't been read yet. With my bookcase, I can just stand back and take it all in.

But then there's my anal obsession with order. On an ereader, all books are the same dimensions (though different number of pages) and it's easy to keep an ereader in order - you find a spot for it in your house, and that's where it lives when you're not using it!

But with print books, they're often different dimensions. So for instance, I have all 8 books in a series by Maryjanice Davidson. 7 of them are trade paperback sized. 2 of those are the American version (had to order them) with different style of art on the covers. 1 of them is so much bigger than the rest, the collection looks wrong overall. It's too tall and wide. It doesn't help matters that this is book 7 of 8, so it's not even on the end of the collection!

My collection of print books is rife with these sorts of issues. So even putting books in order by author and series and genre and size where the others aren't relevant... Well, it still looks messy.

And some books just plain won't fit on some of my shelves.

Those 8 books I mentioned used to be on the top shelf. Or rather, 6 of them did. Then I bought book 7, and because it's bigger, it didn't fit. So they moved down a shelf. This required reorganising the bulk of 2 bookcases!

So there are definite psychological advantages to an ereader, I suppose, for me at least.

But would I give up on print books? I doubt it. It'd be both formats for me, in different situations.

Especially as some books by AWers are only available on the Internet, and not in Australia, so I can just buy them on a Kindle instead of going on the computer and waiting a week or more for them to be delivered to my house.
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Last edited by Cliff Face; 11-27-2011 at 04:41 AM.
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:01 AM   #150
Rhoda Nightingale
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Rhoda Nightingale is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRhoda Nightingale is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRhoda Nightingale is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRhoda Nightingale is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRhoda Nightingale is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRhoda Nightingale is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRhoda Nightingale is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRhoda Nightingale is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRhoda Nightingale is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRhoda Nightingale is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
I strongly prefer print books, and completely understand most of the arguments against ebooks and ereaders.

HOWEVER.

Many of the folks on here have published ebooks that simply aren't available in print form. I'd like to have something smaller and more portable than my computer on which to read them.

That's the only selling point of an ereader for me, but it's a big one.
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