General anime discussion thread

[kuwisdelu]

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

Steins;Gate, the end. A nice wrap-up episode. They didn't actually bungle it, but last episode was really the highlight of the ending. Among my top 4 this year:

Mahou Shoujou Madoka Magica
Hourou Musuko
Usagi Drop
Steins;Gate

Hopefully another will appear to make it a top 5, but these are - so far and to me - the masterpieces of the year.

What you didn't mention:

Steins;Gate movie confirmed Holy Fuck Yes.

ETA: Too early, IMO, to consider masterpieces of the year. We still have Autumn and Winter seasons. With nothing less than Mawaru Penguindrum to consider when it comes to the year.

[Dawnstorm]

Didn't mention the movie because I didn't know about it. I do wonder though: what's it about?

***

It's certainly too early to consider masterpieces of the year. It was just a throwaway comment after finishing Steins;Gate to put it in context. (Although I tend to think of winter-anime to start off the next year, even if they start in December. I wonder: what about two-cours that split over the year-border? Hm...)

And in my own personal hierarchy Penguindrum is a borderline case. It's certainly a very good anime, but I don't get Masterpiece vibes. Other boarderline cases (to put it in context): Durarara!!!, So Ra No Wo To and Spice and Wolf.

I have no doubt whatsoever about the above-mentioned. 2011 was already a good year for anime.

In comparison, I've only seen one definite masterpiece of 2010, and that's Katanagatari (and I only recently saw that).

2009 had Kimi ni Todoke, and little else I'd give that lable without hesitation.

This year has four already. I'm beginning to doubt myself.

[Camilla Delvalle]

One thing I don't like about Penguindrum is how Himari so far is denied the possibility of being a protagonist. They didn't tell her what happened to her in the first episode, and they didn't tell her about the diary, I think. Though she is aware of the penguins. Her role so far seems to be to be cute and to be saved by her brothers, but she doesn't have her own quest.

In the most recent episode about Himari, *spoiler*:Not only is what happens to Himari a dream (or a flashback to episode 1), she doesn't even remember it! That's lame. It turns the episode to pure exposition, without any character development at all.

[kuwisdelu]

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

This year has four already. I'm beginning to doubt myself.

Of the completed series, I'd say Star Driver and Madoka are my two candidates so far.

Originally Posted by Camilla Delvalle

One thing I don't like about Penguindrum is how Himari so far is denied the possibility of being a protagonist. They didn't tell her what happened to her in the first episode, and they didn't tell her about the diary, I think. Though she is aware of the penguins. Her role so far seems to be to be cute and to be saved by her brothers, but she doesn't have her own quest.

It's Ikuhara and we're barely 10 episodes in. Judging Eva on its first 10 episodes, it would look like a generic shounen mecha show. And while I haven't watched Utena yet, if it's anything like Anno's storytelling, the line between reality and that which isn't reality is...not something that matters very much.

[Arianna Sterling]

Originally Posted by kuwisdelu

ETA: Too early, IMO, to consider masterpieces of the year. We still have Autumn and Winter seasons. With nothing less than Mawaru Penguindrum to consider when it comes to the year.

Winter already happened. That's the January-March/April crop. That's how the Japanese TV seasons work (The anime seasons, at least. I don't know about everything else.)

[Camilla Delvalle]

Steins;Gate final seen. It was logical and satisfying, and has increased my appreciation of the series.

The series was solid and logical (or at least appeared to be logical, but may contain logical fallacies or time paradoxes). I'm not sure if I would call it a masterpiece. It was watchable, but didn't make a strong impression, except for a few episodes, like the wrestling, some of the romance, and the ending. Most episodes felt forgettable and I'm not sure I will watch them again.

Plot hole? Why didn't the military or some research organization take care of the "satellite" that crashed on the roof?

Another plot hole? If all time lines existed in parallel, why did the protagonists have to do anything at all? The time lines with bad outcomes and the ones with good outcomes would all still exist. Or am I wrong?

[Dawnstorm]

Originally Posted by kuwisdelu

Of the completed series, I'd say Star Driver and Madoka are my two candidates so far.

I thought you'd mention Star Driver.

Originally Posted by Camilla Delvalle

The series was solid and logical (or at least appeared to be logical, but may contain logical fallacies or time paradoxes). I'm not sure if I would call it a masterpiece.

What impressed me most about the show was that the character chemistry felt so extemely genuine. Dialogue and voice acting combine for optimum effect. It's not just the characters that feel real; it's also their relationships.

Plot hole? Why didn't the military or some research organization take care of the "satellite" that crashed on the roof?

I wondered about that. It seemed... odd.

Another plot hole? If all time lines existed in parallel, why did the protagonists have to do anything at all? The time lines with bad outcomes and the ones with good outcomes would all still exist. Or am I wrong?

I do feel that something doesn't quite work out there. But they do have to do things, because some time lines simply wouldn't exist if those timelines didn't interact.

The concept itself is pretty strange. Apparently, there's a difference between time-lines and world-lines, for example, in that many alternative time-lines with certain event-constants (such as Mayuri's death) create a world line, but given enough divergence you get another world line.

I think that consciousness is part of what creates time, or that time is part of what makes up consciousness; else I'd have trouble explaining why...

...spoiler...

...Suzuha dissolves, but Okabe doesn't, when they go back to the future; and also how relationships can remain constant, or why character deaths are fixed events. All this makes sense (sort of) if you assume that time and consciousness form a unity. (It also makes vague sense of the odd opening scene 17 million years in the past, where phantom Mayuri meets phantom Okabe and they dissolve.)

[kuwisdelu]

Originally Posted by Arianna Sterling

Winter already happened. That's the January-March/April crop. That's how the Japanese TV seasons work (The anime seasons, at least. I don't know about everything else.)

Right. I knew that. But meh, I still don't understand seasons in the West, either. I'll calls 'em as they feels like.

[Camilla Delvalle]

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

What impressed me most about the show was that the character chemistry felt so extemely genuine. Dialogue and voice acting combine for optimum effect. It's not just the characters that feel real; it's also their relationships.

Yes, the dialogue and interactions were good. Especially Okabe Rintaro was unique and memorable. Something I found off was that Kurisu approached him even though he was such a jerk. Also the other women gathered around him like flies. Though I guess that was needed for the plot, for the group to assemble.

I think that consciousness is part of what creates time, or that time is part of what makes up consciousness; else I'd have trouble explaining why...

Yes, it seems that the theory behind the time traveling was not so much about particles and physics. The causality was on the phenomenon level, with persons and deaths and such. Though I guess it's no use to dig too deeply into the theory, because I suspect it will not hold. It's fiction anyway, where the story is more important than stringent theories.

[Dawnstorm]

Originally Posted by Camilla Delvalle

Something I found off was that Kurisu approached him even though he was such a jerk.

Hm, I actually thought they handled that pretty well. She arrived to satisfy her curiosity (and witnessed the gel-bananas). Then she got invited to be a lab member by Okabe. Mayuri was happy to have another girl around, and when she was about to leave there was this scene with Mayuri looking at her with those sad eyes and trademark naivity (and I'm still not sure how much of it is an act), and something like "You don't like it here?"

She then basically started seeing Okabe from Mayuri's point of view. Those initial alliances were quite interesting. Things just sort of happened.

Also the other women gathered around him like flies. Though I guess that was needed for the plot, for the group to assemble.

Actually, I think it's just a genre cliché.

Though I guess it's no use to dig too deeply into the theory, because I suspect it will not hold.

I agree, there.

***

Btw, I've now finished Maria sama, season 1. It was quite fun. I think I know what you meant here, now:

Adding to the strangeness is also the hierarchical system of older students guiding the younger ones, and the formality of speech, both of which may feel strange for a westerner.

It's mixing the kouhai/sempai system with the "best friends forever" trope, and by excluding males through the setting they're setting up a potential yuri interpretation, wich enters into a feedback loop with the way the word "yuri" is actually used in the show itself. (The only obvious lesbian relationship is Sei/Shiori.)

The result is odd: you never know exactly where you stand, and whenever you worry about your relationship with your soeur, you have the rosary as focus, but the beads aren't telling.

It's interesting in that pair-bonding is written into the setting.

[Camilla Delvalle]

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

Btw, I've now finished Maria sama, season 1. It was quite fun. I think I know what you meant here, now:

Most of the strangeness that I felt came from this: "With its serenity and lack of villains it is more strange than many fantasy worlds." This was a subjective feeling which was not caused by the soeur system, since there are stranger things in fantasy. The soeur system only augmented the feeling a bit.

[Dawnstorm]

Originally Posted by Camilla Delvalle

Most of the strangeness that I felt came from this: "With its serenity and lack of villains it is more strange than many fantasy worlds." This was a subjective feeling which was not caused by the soeur system, since there are stranger things in fantasy. The soeur system only augmented the feeling a bit.

Hm, I have trouble understanding this, partly because I didn't feel much strangeness. Also, after reading your post I sort of imagined a lot less overt conflict, for example.

Maybe it's the way conflict is handled? A good example would be the valentine's card episode, where Mifuyu sees Sachiko hiding it. Basically, you have two conflicts here, one between Sachiko and Yumi, and an interior one for Mifuyu. Both are resolved, but although they intermingle only the audience gets the whole picture (although Sachiko has a chance to guess; I can't tell). There is no resolution, no sort of rivalry, between Yumi and Mifuyu. Much of the conflicts remains internal. A lot is left unsaid. The more stereotypical anime would have focussed on Mifuyu's "change of heart". But here, there was no such thing: Mifuyu's action was really just a moment of weakness, but it set things in motion within her that let her come to some sort of peace - without ever overtly calshing with anyone.

Maybe it's that? I'm really just guessing here.

***

ETA: @ Penguindrum: Does anyone know the name of the piece of music they play while Kanba walks though his girl-gift themed maze? I'm sure I know it; I'm thinking Dvorak, or Smetana. But I can't for the life of me remember what it is. It's driving me crazy. I've rewatched the scene too often already.

[kuwisdelu]

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

ETA: @ Penguindrum: Does anyone know the name of the piece of music they play while Kanba walks though his girl-gift themed maze? I'm sure I know it; I'm thinking Dvorak, or Smetana. But I can't for the life of me remember what it is. It's driving me crazy. I've rewatched the scene too often already.

Yep. Dvorak, New World Symphony, Movement 2. I'm ashamed, because it's one of my favorite symphonies, but it's been so long that I had to look it up.

[kuwisdelu]

I recently made my first t-shirt purchases in forever (I almost never wear t-shirts except as pajamas). Three Eva shirts. Today I wore the one with the shot of Unit-03 from Rebuild to a picnic.

[kuwisdelu]

Eh, the ending of No. 6 was kind of disappointing. It fell into the same trap as Fractale of starting out great, stumbling up on the pacing, never quite getting it right again despite some flashes of greatness, and delivering a decent ending that fell kind of flat because the build-up just didn't do it justice. I think my main problem is the mythos of the city No. 6 just wasn't developed enough. What they were going for reminded me of Sora no Woto, where the details of the history weren't terribly important, and it was more about the universal feelings and themes upon which it called. But despite Sora no Woto's heavily slice of life episodes, it set the mood perfectly, and gave me an innate sense and feeling about the world in which it was set, which I never quite got from No. 6. It's not even that there weren't plenty of hints or plenty of great tone-setting scenes; they just didn't match up very well to give a cohesive whole strong enough to carry the ending, resulting in a finale that might have been well-executed given a better build-up, but the mythos just wasn't there to make it work.

Overall, I think I'd have to say that pacing is the biggest stumbling point in all of the noitaminA series that don't quite succeed, where everything else tends to be very well-executed.

ETA: I'm happy to say that Usagi Drop does not fall into this category. The only disappointment was that it was only 11 episodes.

[Dawnstorm]

Originally Posted by kuwisdelu

Yep. Dvorak, New World Symphony, Movement 2. I'm ashamed, because it's one of my favorite symphonies, but it's been so long that I had to look it up.

Thank you, thank you, thankyou. I am at peace.

(I bet the people around me who no longer have to put up with my terrible humming also thank you.)

@No. 6: I thought the ending was decent as far as characterisation went (a strong scene was Shion's mom realising what's happening, and starting to run, for example; they did that sort of well). But a lot of the plot seemed cliché, as did a lot of the ending. I have no idea what to make of the "forest folk"; I never buy the "last one" mythos in fiction - and the nature vs. civilisation thing they seemed extremely simplistic to me. Apart from No. 5 (?) I also have no context for No. 6, so there's a lot I just can't tell.

It's still a decent show. In contrast to Fractale, which causes in me the urge to mercilessly riducule it, No. 6 was actually enjoyable to me, on the whole. Inukashi is undoubtedly my favourite character, and the relationship between Nezumi and Shion was very well handled. Nothing was terrible, which makes for a positive balance on the whole.

[maxmordon]

A friend of mine keep insisting me I should see D.Grayman. Is it good? I want to know other opinions.

[LOG]

Originally Posted by maxmordon

A friend of mine keep insisting me I should see D.Grayman. Is it good? I want to know other opinions.

The series is pretty good, although the monthly release pattern and long author breaks from earlier mean that the anime has had to stop and wait for the manga.



Princess Resurrection has an OVA series it would seem. Yay!

[kuwisdelu]

The end of Tiger & Bunny, *thumbs up*, in Kotetsu's ridiculous English: "good ending!"

Not stellar, with a lot of cliches thrown into the mix, but everything else was good enough that I don't really have complaints over it. Overall, very enjoyable. Also, obvious 2nd season bait is obvious. I'm all for it.

[kuwisdelu]

Ahh late 2011 and 2012 will be a great time for anime. K-On!! movie, Strike Witches movie, Kizumonogatari movie, and Evangelion 3.0 movie. NOMMMM.

....and we probably won't see any of them except for shitty camrips until at least 2013.

How much would it cost to fly to Japan for a few days in Autumn 2012 to see Eva? Hmm....

[LOG]

Originally Posted by kuwisdelu

Ahh late 2011 and 2012 will be a great time for anime. K-On!! movie, Strike Witches movie, Kizumonogatari movie, and Evangelion 3.0 movie. NOMMMM.

....and we probably won't see any of them except for shitty camrips until at least 2013.

How much would it cost to fly to Japan for a few days in Autumn 2012 to see Eva? Hmm....

Aren't the last two Rebuild movies being released simultaneously?

[kuwisdelu]

Originally Posted by LOG

Aren't the last two Rebuild movies being released simultaneously?

That was the plan several years ago, but I strongly doubt that will be the case. Delays happened. After the re-done Ramiel battle in 1.0, Anno appears to have realized the project's potential and decided to go in a completely different direction than originally planned. Khara has been extremely tight-lipped, and nothing has slipped about Final. We finally have a (tentative & approximate) release time frame for Q. IMO, we're not going to see Final before 2014, at earliest.

After all, Q/Final were supposed to be released together in Summer 2008. No, IMO, Final will be a separate film, and won't be released with Q. I'm open to any bets for when we will finally see it.

[kuwisdelu]

Anime is SRS BUSINESS.

A bus full of people are watching Madoka on the side of the road block and get asked to stop watching and move so they don't block traffic; viewers refuse to stop watching, as it will mean missing part of the episode; everyone gets arrested.

[Dawnstorm]

Maybe they were demonstrating that unreasonable wishes lead to suffering?

[kuwisdelu]

I kinda want a threesome with Ohana and her mom. Is that so wrong?

And seriously, Ohana hentai where?!