The Daily Rejection - Page 200

Carleree · 04-06-2012, 03:57 AM

That doesn't sound like a no to me, Hathor. It sounds more like a not right now. Try him again in six months.

Hathor · 04-06-2012, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carleree

That doesn't sound like a no to me, Hathor. It sounds more like a not right now. Try him again in six months.

Maybe you're right. This just hit me hard because I always thought this little press was my fallback. I also fear it's been so long I wrote the book I will have to re-research everything. And I've already devoted so many years to this project...

How can everyone I talk to about the book think it would be useful to many people, but everyone in publishing seems to think there is no market?

But the Caps just scored again. Wow, I just typed that and they scored yet again. Good -- our top goalie is injured, and our second goalie was injured a few minutes ago.

Where was I? Oh yes. Maybe I'll get an agent for the fiction and then I'll whip this other thing out...

***************************************

Looks like you're ahead for the day, DJ.

Your story was funny, polly. I never knew the plot for that play. Has anyone ever written a book about life in drama school -- either fiction or non?

pollymilton · 04-06-2012, 05:08 AM

Hathor, I don't know what to think about that. That is so disappointing and (yes, I know life isn't fair) unfair. University Presses? Or did you do those already? Have your wine. I'm sending good wishes your way tonight.

P.

Hathor · 04-06-2012, 05:28 AM

Nope, haven't done university presses. So far I just did this one non-university one.

I've looked at uni presses before. They seem to want CVs and all. I'm a mom who has a story that doesn't fall within the prevailing beliefs (and did a lot of research to try to explain what happened and how to help other parents). I can claim credentials in a way for the legal parts, but for the other stuff, I can only rely on the inherent persuasiveness of the research. Okay, I spent six months finding professors who would swear I wasn't a nut job, but I don't know if that cuts it.

I guess I'll find out, huh? What's the worse that can happen? They will reject or ignore me. I've already had lots of that.

Carleree · 04-06-2012, 06:29 AM

[QUOTE=Hathor;7167470]
How can everyone I talk to about the book think it would be useful to many people, but everyone in publishing seems to think there is no market?
[QUOTE]
Perhaps you should include a list of people you spoke to who thought it would be useful?

I don't know.

I'm being brave tonight. I'm wearing my jersey. Usually when I put it on my team loses, but so far we're holding the lead.

And the Caps won. You never know, we could be playing against each other in the final.

Drachen Jager · 04-06-2012, 10:02 AM

You jynxed them Carleree! Now they'll have to be satisfied with second in the league.

Of course the Rangers could lose next game.

Quickbread · 04-06-2012, 05:35 PM

Hathor, I totally hear that the editor really wants to publish your manuscript but not right now. I'm sorry it wasn't happier news, but I agree you should try again in six months if you haven't found another publisher by then. Another press might have access to a different audience that would be more receptive. I don't know about the credentials required by a university press, but that's worth a shot. What's the manuscript about?

On the bright side, you're right, the Cubs are always cursed. That much I know, despite being one of those Chicagoans whose only connection with baseball season is getting irritated when I have to park somewhere within a mile of Wrigley Field on a game night.

Hathor · 04-06-2012, 06:49 PM

Carleree -- I do include a short "this is what experts think" section now. Unconventional, but it seemed necessary. I don't list all the folks who've said I should write a book, they'd buy it, or they'd recommend it to particular folks they know.

DJ -- I hope the Ranger do lose their next game. They're playing the Caps

Quickbread -- Thanks. I'm not quite sure what might happen in six months to change the market. You asked what the manuscript is about. Okay -- all the rest of you avert your eyes. I'm about to include my much-struggled-over query letter (with "foreword" instead of "forward" this time

).

An expert said Charlotte Rose would probably end up “functionally retarded” with limited language and living in a group home. Instead, she is a young woman with top English scores and conversant with seven other languages. She went from autistic-like behaviors and a measured IQ in the bottom percentile to graduating with honors from an Ivy League school. A Climbing Rose: An Educational Odyssey From The Bottom Percentile To Ivy League Success tells the story of how she managed to do so.

In telling the story of my daughter’s blossoming I discuss what I learned along the way: the good that proper special education can do, why (and how) parents should do their own research and learn to navigate the system, the problems with the system (and how it could be improved), the nature of the assorted “disabilities,” evaluations, therapies, and educational models we dealt with, and how I ended up homeschooling her. What I discovered in Charlotte’s case about the limited importance of measured “ability” versus attitude and the problems of incoherent, simplistic curricula and inadequate teaching methods apply to all children. Charlotte is a case study for not selling kids short simply because they are given a “disability” label and for discarding educational dogmas and practices that make no sense.

As her mother, I am the only one who can tell the story of Charlotte’s extraordinary climb from the bottom to the top of the educational ladder. No educator, therapist, or outside evaluator knew her as long or as well. For the final five years before college – when she went from D’s in public school to Ivy League acceptance – she was homeschooled.

Parents of special needs children know they can learn much from each other. My years of experience as a lawyer, as Charlotte’s mother and teacher, and as a special education advocate allow me to explain how to cope if the experts disagree (or don’t know) or the educators say one thing and the science or a parent’s intuition seems to say another. Ultimately, parents have to do their own research, and I explain how to do so. Reliance on the first “expert” to come along or blind belief in one’s school system can be disastrous for one’s children.

I have confirmed my conclusions with a variety of professionals. One of them, an emeritus professor of education, has written a foreword to my book. Others have written endorsements. I've attached what they've said.

[closing]

Carleree · 04-06-2012, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drachen Jager

You jynxed them Carleree! Now they'll have to be satisfied with second in the league.

Of course the Rangers could lose next game.

Oh yeah, it's all my fault. Couldn't be the total break down on defense, could it?

I won't wear my jersey next game. Promise.

Hathor · 04-06-2012, 07:30 PM

Okay, I've got a plan. As my fiction MC says, everything seems better once I have a plan.

1. Write to all my advocate and professor betas and explain what's up with the book. They probably think I've dropped it. Ask if any of them can suggest a particular publisher.

2. Update my research on everything in my book and possible competing titles. Change book and proposal accordingly. Fix all the damn formatting once and for all. Try yet again for a better title (I've had a score, none of which really enthuse me).

3. Go through book with my list of unnecessary words, developed as I cut the fiction. One concern agents might have had before was the book's length. (Now it's 110,000, which includes endnotes.) Maybe change the beginning to be more of an in medias res approach, rather than the "here's where she started, where she ended up, and what this book is" approach my beginning has now.

4. Send proposal to publisher of special needs titles located in my very zipcode. This one I knew about already.

5. Research other small presses that allow unagented submissions.

It's been so long since I queried some agents, they've probably forgotten. With a new title and a better word count, maybe I'd get somewhere. Maybe adjust the query a bit, too -- zippier, mention the new study about 1 in 88 children being in the autism spectrum. Say parents need something better than works by Jenny McCarthy. Say I'll bleach my hair and will get a boob job if that will help any...

Carleree · 04-06-2012, 07:41 PM

I'm tired just reading that list, Hathor. Sounds like a lot of work.

celoise · 04-06-2012, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carleree

That doesn't sound like a no to me, Hathor. It sounds more like a not right now. Try him again in six months.

I agree. From the letter, she sounded pretty interested, so try again in a little while.

Drachen Jager · 04-06-2012, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carleree

Oh yeah, it's all my fault. Couldn't be the total break down on defense, could it?

I won't wear my jersey next game. Promise.

Luongo should have started. A couple of those Schneider let in would have been easy saves for Lou.

Hathor · 04-06-2012, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carleree

I'm tired just reading that list, Hathor. Sounds like a lot of work.

Yeah, but it will keep me occupied while I query the fiction (assuming I don't win that contest

).

The entire project has been a lot of work, though. I hate to throw that all away. Yes, that is an example of what's known as the "sunk cost fallacy" but it still seems to be operating for me. I hate to think that what all I learned will be of no benefit to anyone else.

My writing has probably improved since I wrote the NF, too. I'll see. I haven't read the thing for ages. A printout has been sitting on the table close to where I've been working on fiction. I've covered it in other papers so it won't be accusing me of abandoning it.

Carleree · 04-07-2012, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drachen Jager

Luongo should have started. A couple of those Schneider let in would have been easy saves for Lou.

There were a few saves Schneiger made that Luongo would've let in, too.

Carleree · 04-07-2012, 12:11 AM

Hathor, I'm impressed with your tenacity. I wouldn't be able to just walk away after all that work either.

Kim Fierce · 04-07-2012, 07:20 AM

I've just started round 2 in agent submissions after re-writing my first chapter. Maybe I need to rework the first chapter some more or something, because this is the rejection I received today, in which I sent a query and chapter 1 only:

"Although I found your premise intriguing, I'm afraid the voice just didn't pull me in the way I'd like."

I'm not exactly sure what this means! Although it is nice that it's not just a form letter. I am thinking perhaps she means it's too narrator-ish but really don't know. :-( Just a tiny bit more info to clarify would have been cool. :-)

*Edit, I've been down lately because some of my big-dream publishers have rejected my work already. But I've also completely re-vamped the first chapter since then and I'm upset that I submitted to several agents before I was ready. So I'm going to see if it's been 6 months since subbing to some of them and try again!

Carleree · 04-07-2012, 09:05 PM

Filled out an online form last night. Woke up to a partial request this morning. Woot!

Happy Easter, all!

Hathor: Here's hoping the Rangers suck tonight.

DJ: I am not wearing my jersey. You can breathe easy

Hathor · 04-07-2012, 09:31 PM

Carleree, congrats. I hope you're right about the Rangers. Hate to say it but I actually agree with Tortorella about something now -- the Penguins (just got fined for telling the truth

).

Tenacious....sounds better than stubborn, doesn't it?

Kim -- You can go crazy trying to read things into agent comments. What you received may actually be stock language from this particular agent (search on AW and querytracker -- you'll probably find what the agent's form reject says). You don't have a basis for rewriting, or rather, knowing how to rewrite. You could try posting over on Share Your Work.

pollymilton · 04-07-2012, 09:52 PM

Hey Kim, I've gotten that same comment 2 times. So, I don't know. It never hurts to look at your first chap. again, does it? Hang in there, Lady.

Carleree!!!! THE GIRL ON FIRE!!!

Carleree · 04-07-2012, 10:03 PM

Thanks Polly and Hathor ! You are the best cheerleaders ever.

I also agreed with the NY coach on the Penguins. Too bad he got fined for it, though.

Weird thing just happened. I mean, really weird. I queried one agency on a recommendation from a friend a LONG time ago. The agent I queried sent an automatic response saying he was out of town for a few days, but he'd get back to me soon. I never heard anything, however, querytracker says he's been responding to queries around the time I sent mine in. He's just really behind.

THEN...

Today I got another out-of-office notice from another agent. In fact, I'd never heard of this agent. He's brand-spanking new over there. So, does this mean the first agent I queried passed mine along today and that's why I got the out-of-office notification?

pollymilton · 04-07-2012, 10:33 PM

probably. I know sometimes agents pass stuff on to the newer people in the firm.

Carleree · 04-07-2012, 10:55 PM

I put my super-sleuthing skills to work. Turns out the agent used to work at an agency I queried today. They didn't change their out of office reply letter so it is still signed from him even though he's moved to the other agency.

I don't care. I still had a request today. I'm sticking with that good news for now.

Carleree · 04-07-2012, 11:28 PM

Well that was fast. The partial I sent this morning was just rejected. Personal rejection with lots of notes, but it's still a no.

Carleree · 04-08-2012, 12:08 AM

I might have to start drinking before the game. Another rejection

What are they doing reading queries today? Shouldn't they be hoarding chocolate?

04-06-2012, 10:02 AM	#4981
Drachen Jager Professor of applied misanthropy Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Vancouver Posts: 10,867	You jynxed them Carleree! Now they'll have to be satisfied with second in the league. Of course the Rangers could lose next game. __________________ When people tell you something’s wrong or doesn’t work for them, they're almost always right. When they tell you exactly what they think is wrong and how to fix it, they're almost always wrong.—Gaiman The story must strike a nerve—in me. My heart should start pounding when I hear the first line in my head. I start trembling at the risk.—Sontag Creativity is the residue of wasted time.—Einstein

04-07-2012, 07:20 AM	#4992
Kim Fierce Attack me with everything you have. Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,130	I've just started round 2 in agent submissions after re-writing my first chapter. Maybe I need to rework the first chapter some more or something, because this is the rejection I received today, in which I sent a query and chapter 1 only: "Although I found your premise intriguing, I'm afraid the voice just didn't pull me in the way I'd like." I'm not exactly sure what this means! Although it is nice that it's not just a form letter. I am thinking perhaps she means it's too narrator-ish but really don't know. :-( Just a tiny bit more info to clarify would have been cool. :-) Edit, I've been down lately because some of my big-dream publishers have rejected my work already. But I've also completely re-vamped the first chapter since then and I'm upset that I submitted to several agents before I was ready. So I'm going to see if it's been 6 months since subbing to some of them and try again! __________________ No Turning Back,* YA Contemporary Watch the book trailer steampunk short series: Amelia's Revolution Two-Spirit's Red Road The Divide: Uprising YA Dystopia The Divide: Unity -- in progress My Secret Pain --YA short, 8-?-13

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04-06-2012, 03:57 AM	#4976
Carleree Queen of Catastrophes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Between the middle of nowhere and where the hell am I? Posts: 1,724	That doesn't sound like a no to me, Hathor. It sounds more like a not right now. Try him again in six months.

04-06-2012, 05:08 AM	#4978
pollymilton please hold.... Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Northwest Posts: 605	Hathor, I don't know what to think about that. That is so disappointing and (yes, I know life isn't fair) unfair. University Presses? Or did you do those already? Have your wine. I'm sending good wishes your way tonight. P.

04-06-2012, 05:28 AM	#4979
Hathor Goddess of Rationalization Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: In de Nile Posts: 1,673	Nope, haven't done university presses. So far I just did this one non-university one. I've looked at uni presses before. They seem to want CVs and all. I'm a mom who has a story that doesn't fall within the prevailing beliefs (and did a lot of research to try to explain what happened and how to help other parents). I can claim credentials in a way for the legal parts, but for the other stuff, I can only rely on the inherent persuasiveness of the research. Okay, I spent six months finding professors who would swear I wasn't a nut job, but I don't know if that cuts it. I guess I'll find out, huh? What's the worse that can happen? They will reject or ignore me. I've already had lots of that.

04-06-2012, 06:29 AM	#4980
Carleree Queen of Catastrophes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Between the middle of nowhere and where the hell am I? Posts: 1,724	[QUOTE=Hathor;7167470] How can everyone I talk to about the book think it would be useful to many people, but everyone in publishing seems to think there is no market? [QUOTE] Perhaps you should include a list of people you spoke to who thought it would be useful? I don't know. I'm being brave tonight. I'm wearing my jersey. Usually when I put it on my team loses, but so far we're holding the lead. And the Caps won. You never know, we could be playing against each other in the final.

04-06-2012, 05:35 PM	#4982
Quickbread practical experience, FTW Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Somewhere between the beginning and the end Posts: 365	Hathor, I totally hear that the editor really wants to publish your manuscript but not right now. I'm sorry it wasn't happier news, but I agree you should try again in six months if you haven't found another publisher by then. Another press might have access to a different audience that would be more receptive. I don't know about the credentials required by a university press, but that's worth a shot. What's the manuscript about? On the bright side, you're right, the Cubs are always cursed. That much I know, despite being one of those Chicagoans whose only connection with baseball season is getting irritated when I have to park somewhere within a mile of Wrigley Field on a game night.

04-06-2012, 06:49 PM	#4983
Hathor Goddess of Rationalization Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: In de Nile Posts: 1,673	Carleree -- I do include a short "this is what experts think" section now. Unconventional, but it seemed necessary. I don't list all the folks who've said I should write a book, they'd buy it, or they'd recommend it to particular folks they know. DJ -- I hope the Ranger do lose their next game. They're playing the Caps Quickbread -- Thanks. I'm not quite sure what might happen in six months to change the market. You asked what the manuscript is about. Okay -- all the rest of you avert your eyes. I'm about to include my much-struggled-over query letter (with "foreword" instead of "forward" this time ). An expert said Charlotte Rose would probably end up “functionally retarded” with limited language and living in a group home. Instead, she is a young woman with top English scores and conversant with seven other languages. She went from autistic-like behaviors and a measured IQ in the bottom percentile to graduating with honors from an Ivy League school. A Climbing Rose: An Educational Odyssey From The Bottom Percentile To Ivy League Success tells the story of how she managed to do so. In telling the story of my daughter’s blossoming I discuss what I learned along the way: the good that proper special education can do, why (and how) parents should do their own research and learn to navigate the system, the problems with the system (and how it could be improved), the nature of the assorted “disabilities,” evaluations, therapies, and educational models we dealt with, and how I ended up homeschooling her. What I discovered in Charlotte’s case about the limited importance of measured “ability” versus attitude and the problems of incoherent, simplistic curricula and inadequate teaching methods apply to all children. Charlotte is a case study for not selling kids short simply because they are given a “disability” label and for discarding educational dogmas and practices that make no sense. As her mother, I am the only one who can tell the story of Charlotte’s extraordinary climb from the bottom to the top of the educational ladder. No educator, therapist, or outside evaluator knew her as long or as well. For the final five years before college – when she went from D’s in public school to Ivy League acceptance – she was homeschooled. Parents of special needs children know they can learn much from each other. My years of experience as a lawyer, as Charlotte’s mother and teacher, and as a special education advocate allow me to explain how to cope if the experts disagree (or don’t know) or the educators say one thing and the science or a parent’s intuition seems to say another. Ultimately, parents have to do their own research, and I explain how to do so. Reliance on the first “expert” to come along or blind belief in one’s school system can be disastrous for one’s children. I have confirmed my conclusions with a variety of professionals. One of them, an emeritus professor of education, has written a foreword to my book. Others have written endorsements. I've attached what they've said. [closing]

04-06-2012, 07:30 PM	#4985
Hathor Goddess of Rationalization Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: In de Nile Posts: 1,673	Okay, I've got a plan. As my fiction MC says, everything seems better once I have a plan. 1. Write to all my advocate and professor betas and explain what's up with the book. They probably think I've dropped it. Ask if any of them can suggest a particular publisher. 2. Update my research on everything in my book and possible competing titles. Change book and proposal accordingly. Fix all the damn formatting once and for all. Try yet again for a better title (I've had a score, none of which really enthuse me). 3. Go through book with my list of unnecessary words, developed as I cut the fiction. One concern agents might have had before was the book's length. (Now it's 110,000, which includes endnotes.) Maybe change the beginning to be more of an in medias res approach, rather than the "here's where she started, where she ended up, and what this book is" approach my beginning has now. 4. Send proposal to publisher of special needs titles located in my very zipcode. This one I knew about already. 5. Research other small presses that allow unagented submissions. It's been so long since I queried some agents, they've probably forgotten. With a new title and a better word count, maybe I'd get somewhere. Maybe adjust the query a bit, too -- zippier, mention the new study about 1 in 88 children being in the autism spectrum. Say parents need something better than works by Jenny McCarthy. Say I'll bleach my hair and will get a boob job if that will help any...

04-06-2012, 07:41 PM	#4986
Carleree Queen of Catastrophes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Between the middle of nowhere and where the hell am I? Posts: 1,724	I'm tired just reading that list, Hathor. Sounds like a lot of work.

04-07-2012, 12:11 AM	#4991
Carleree Queen of Catastrophes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Between the middle of nowhere and where the hell am I? Posts: 1,724	Hathor, I'm impressed with your tenacity. I wouldn't be able to just walk away after all that work either.

04-07-2012, 09:05 PM	#4993
Carleree Queen of Catastrophes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Between the middle of nowhere and where the hell am I? Posts: 1,724	Filled out an online form last night. Woke up to a partial request this morning. Woot! Happy Easter, all! Hathor: Here's hoping the Rangers suck tonight. DJ: I am not wearing my jersey. You can breathe easy

04-07-2012, 09:31 PM	#4994
Hathor Goddess of Rationalization Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: In de Nile Posts: 1,673	Carleree, congrats. I hope you're right about the Rangers. Hate to say it but I actually agree with Tortorella about something now -- the Penguins (just got fined for telling the truth ). Tenacious....sounds better than stubborn, doesn't it? Kim -- You can go crazy trying to read things into agent comments. What you received may actually be stock language from this particular agent (search on AW and querytracker -- you'll probably find what the agent's form reject says). You don't have a basis for rewriting, or rather, knowing how to rewrite. You could try posting over on Share Your Work.

04-07-2012, 09:52 PM	#4995
pollymilton please hold.... Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Northwest Posts: 605	Hey Kim, I've gotten that same comment 2 times. So, I don't know. It never hurts to look at your first chap. again, does it? Hang in there, Lady. Carleree!!!! THE GIRL ON FIRE!!!

04-07-2012, 10:03 PM	#4996
Carleree Queen of Catastrophes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Between the middle of nowhere and where the hell am I? Posts: 1,724	Thanks Polly and Hathor ! You are the best cheerleaders ever. I also agreed with the NY coach on the Penguins. Too bad he got fined for it, though. Weird thing just happened. I mean, really weird. I queried one agency on a recommendation from a friend a LONG time ago. The agent I queried sent an automatic response saying he was out of town for a few days, but he'd get back to me soon. I never heard anything, however, querytracker says he's been responding to queries around the time I sent mine in. He's just really behind. THEN... Today I got another out-of-office notice from another agent. In fact, I'd never heard of this agent. He's brand-spanking new over there. So, does this mean the first agent I queried passed mine along today and that's why I got the out-of-office notification?

04-07-2012, 10:33 PM	#4997
pollymilton please hold.... Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Northwest Posts: 605	probably. I know sometimes agents pass stuff on to the newer people in the firm.

04-07-2012, 10:55 PM	#4998
Carleree Queen of Catastrophes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Between the middle of nowhere and where the hell am I? Posts: 1,724	I put my super-sleuthing skills to work. Turns out the agent used to work at an agency I queried today. They didn't change their out of office reply letter so it is still signed from him even though he's moved to the other agency. I don't care. I still had a request today. I'm sticking with that good news for now.

04-07-2012, 11:28 PM	#4999
Carleree Queen of Catastrophes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Between the middle of nowhere and where the hell am I? Posts: 1,724	Well that was fast. The partial I sent this morning was just rejected. Personal rejection with lots of notes, but it's still a no.

04-08-2012, 12:08 AM	#5000
Carleree Queen of Catastrophes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Between the middle of nowhere and where the hell am I? Posts: 1,724	I might have to start drinking before the game. Another rejection What are they doing reading queries today? Shouldn't they be hoarding chocolate?