Return of a Man Named PAMB and its Quotes

[Shrouded]

Do you know what Willie charges for a review?

[PVish]

Originally Posted by Shrouded

Do you know what Willie charges for a review?

Looks like it's $69, plus shipping.

[amergina]

Originally Posted by PVish

Looks like it's $69, plus shipping.

Because, goodness knows, shipping nothing costs soooooo much.

[Shrouded]

Must be tax time. How else can you justify that? ISBN:Willem????

[James D. Macdonald]

You have up to 25 words to express yourself.

Wow. Twenty-five whole words?

Does everyone know that Willem is a vanity publisher who was associated with "Edit Ink" (a notorious scam that was busted by the New York state Attorney General)?

[cethklein]

Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

Wow. Twenty-five whole words?

Does everyone know that Willem is a vanity publisher who was associated with "Edit Ink" (a notorious scam that was busted by the New York state Attorney General)?

Would it matter if they did? The people who buy into his tripe likely don't let silly things like facts get in their way.

[amergina]

So PA posted a link to the letter from Willem about pricing over on their FB page.

The responses haven't been exactly happy... and I'm surprised they're still there! So here we go:

https://www.facebook.com/PublishAmer...99214703446497

Author A:

Price was lowered, but not enough time to set up book signings at that price. I have had several people tell me that they want to buy my book so I can build up royalties, but $24.95 for my book is too expensive. It seems like you want us to buy our own book and sell it ourselves so you don't have to pay royalties. I like your company, but the price makes it difficult to sell. If you are able to sell the author their book for $8.88 and various other low prices, you should be able to sell the book to consumers for the same price.

Author B:

Second book no royalties but friends have purchased we buy cheaper no royalties ... Uhhhh yay

Author C:

All my friends, and I have a lot of them, SAY they want to buy a copy of my book each but come up with all kind of excuses when I inquire if they have. Excuses ranging from 'I didn't get around to it but I will' to 'I have been so busy'... and all this time I know it is the price and S&H they're talking about: Yet when I bought some 10 copies and informed them I had to beat them away with a stick! Remember I sold the copies I had minus the shipping fee! Matters worse? I don't expect loyalties from those sales! :/

Author D:

I tried to send this by email 3 times and it failed do to timing out. Dear Mr. Willem Meiners,
I understand it makes things more simple for your company to charge the same price across the board for books but there is a difference between books size, page numbers and weight that should be taken into account. A book that has 100 or more pages cost more to print and ship weight wise. A children's book of less than 25 pages should not be charged the same because the cost is lower to produce. I wrote a children's book that is less than 25 pages 12 pages printed on both sides other than your advertising page it has 2 blank pages. It is thin and paper back. I know that as a parent myself that I would not pay more than $8.00 retail for a thin paperback book. There is no room for me to sell them and make any profit what so ever at the $8 to $10 range.
At that price I may as well not even bother writing children's books at all.

And then Willem replies:

[Author A]: "It seems like you want us to buy our own book and sell it ourselves so you don't have to pay royalties." Wrong. We love bookstore sales. They have a much higher profit margin than the books that we sell at an incredible discount to authors.

Hmm. Do you smell something?

Author A did:

Mr. Meiners, I do not wish to cause any ill feelings between us and ruin our business relations, but you say there is a higher profit margin with bookstore sales. That is great, but, at what price will the bookstore have to sell my book at events such as book signings? Again, if the price is too high, people will not buy it. Please help me understand why a trade grade, 162 page book is $24.95 when the average cost for that type/size book is around $15.00? Please understand, I realize I will never get rich off my book(s), unless I get picked up by a major publisher, I just want to get a gospel message out to others, but no-one is going to get that message if they feel the book is too expensive. Again, I don't want to cause a rift between us, I hope to have more of my books published by your company, I just don't understand the high pricing strategy.

Author E Chimes in:

Exactly! Bookstores won't even carry my book because PA wants over $30.00 a copy for it. Bookstores say there is no room for profit, so the only way I can sell my book is to buy it myself then resell it. Since I first signed on with PA a couple of years ago, I have given them a lot of money to promote my book, put it in magazines, take it to road shows, etc., then I never hear from them again. They say I still don't have a commission check coming, when I have sold many copies myself. They can't even sell one?

[DreamWeaver]

Since I first signed on with PA a couple of years ago, I have given them a lot of money to promote my book, put it in magazines, take it to road shows, etc., then I never hear from them again.

This is just so sad. I hope this author finally decides to quit throwing good money after bad. It's amazing that PA still gets away with doing things like this.

[Queen of Swords]

Again, I don't want to cause a rift between us, I hope to have more of my books published by your company

And priced at $24.95?

These are the ones I don't understand, unless this author believes PA is the only publisher which will ever consider his work and isn't aware of the existence of affordable self-publishing either.

[Gillhoughly]

I've kept an eye on their FB customers. They tend to have niche books no one wants or they think (after a couple of stabs at looking for publishers online and finding only vanities) you're supposed to pay to publish. So they fall on PA as the answer to their troubles.

An astonishing number seem to think that once their book is finished that publishers will simply print and sell it for them, sort of like a Kinkos service with distribution to bookstores.

They just do not know how real publishers work.

There's also a slim number of Kool-Aid swillers who love PA like a codependent alcoholic loves his open bar enabler.

They provide plenty of excuses for alllll those little "gotchas" for cash grabbing & slam critics as "haterz".

Their feet are soggy; they can see the pyramids.

[DreamWeaver]

Originally Posted by Gillhoughly

An astonishing number seem to think that once their book is finished that publishers will simply print and sell it for them....

I don't find this astonishing at all. It's a pretty good minisummary of how commercial publishing works, if one leaves out the pesky details of commercial publishers being choosy, and editing.

It's like they understand one part of the process, but not the majority of the process. Sort of like asking a kid where eggs come from and hearing "the refrigerator."

OK, I'm oversimplifying here. Work with me .

[Gillhoughly]

Yes, there is that segment of writers who don't connect the dots, Dreamweaver, but I see writers every week on FB cheerfully posting that now that their book is done all they just have to pick the publisher who will sell it for them and make them rich.

The wording of such posts indicates they honestly think publishers are a kind of service business that accepts all books and will sell them in stores.

PA is exactly what they're looking for, minus the "service" part, minus the sell books in stores part.

Dear PA Writer,

PA serves only itself. You're nothing more than a wallet to them.

[DreamWeaver]

Originally Posted by Gillhoughly

Yes, there is that segment of writers who don't connect the dots, Dreamweaver, but I see writers every week on FB cheerfully posting that now that their book is done all they just have to pick the publisher who will sell it for them and make them rich.

The wording of such posts indicates they honestly think publishers are a kind of service business that accepts all books and will sell them in stores.

PA is exactly what they're looking for, minus the "service" part, minus the sell books in stores part.

Dear PA Writer,

PA serves only itself. You're nothing more than a wallet to them.

Yep, I see what you mean. I should learn not to nitpick .

[Gillhoughly]

Argh. Just spotted another one. They're almost done with their book, have the cover all finished and are ready to sell it to a publisher!

To keep the writer out of trouble I sent some links to sites that will give a 101 on basic publishing, how to find a legit publisher and a link to Writer Beware Thumb's Down list.

You can't save them all, but hopefully that's one less writer tumbling into PA's tar pit.

[Deb Kinnard]

Originally Posted by Gillhoughly

The wording of such posts indicates they honestly think publishers are a kind of service business that accepts all books and will sell them in stores.

This, yes. One has to wonder if they're led down this dead-end path by looking at the hideous editing and poor storytelling put out in some cases by NYC based publishers. I could quote you work, chapter, and line, but we've all seen at least one.

[DreamWeaver]

Actually, I've never read a commercially published book by a major trade publisher that compared poorly to a vanity published book. A tiny number of the really well done self-published books...yes.

I take it back. There was one military Afghanistan memoir put out by a major publisher that had such poor word choices it amounted to serial malapropism. Since it was a soldier's memoir and not a novel, I blame that squarely on the editor. That book would definitely be a black mark for trade publishing. It was still better than any vanity published book I've looked into, but it was not good.

[ResearchGuy]

Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

Actually, I've never read a commercially published book by a major trade publisher that compared poorly to a vanity published book.

Allow me to introduce you to Murder in the Swamp.

--Ken

[Gillhoughly]

Red alert! Willie's spewing crap at both ends!

First, he justifies the spam mails to PA writers: http://www.publishamerica.net/ceo050312.html

Next he slams the countless negatives about PA as coming from people jealous of PA's "success." http://www.publishamerica.net/ceo050412.html


There's so much wrong with those (starting with charging 69 and change for a "review") and the other spews in their archives, that I don't know where to start.

So I'll end it here:

[Gillhoughly]

Originally Posted by ResearchGuy

Allow me to introduce you to Murder in the Swamp.

--Ken

I'll see your swamp and raise you some Space Aliens with a grammatically incorrect one-word title--an error repeated in the titles of the sequels.

http://www.amazon.com/Circles-Cherie...cm_cr-mr-title

http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Circles...tt_at_ep_dpt_2

Let it be noted that the positive reviews have similar style to how the author words things, so somewhere there was a sock puppet with a hand up its arse.

[DreamWeaver]

Originally Posted by ResearchGuy

Allow me to introduce you to Murder in the Swamp.

--Ken

Thank you for that lovely introduction.

I'm getting lost trying to figure out if Worldwide Library is an imprint of one of the big six. So far I've found "Worldwide Library is a publisher of young adult books. Some of the books published by Worldwide Library include Hear My Cry, Dead Men Die, Hear Me Die, and The Longest Pleasure," which really REALLY don't sound like YA titles . And also, that another, one hopes different, Worldwide Library is or was an imprint of Harlequin, which isn't really what I meant but close enough for rock 'n' roll. I'll concede the point.

[DreamWeaver]

Originally Posted by Gillhoughly

I'll see your swamp and raise you some Space Aliens with a grammatically incorrect one-word title--an error repeated in the titles of the sequels.

http://www.amazon.com/Circles-Cherie...cm_cr-mr-title

http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Circles...tt_at_ep_dpt_2

Let it be noted that the positive reviews have similar style to how the author words things, so somewhere there was a sock puppet with a hand up its arse.

In my defense, I did specify "major trade publisher". This one is straight pay to play, unless I've got the wrong Insight Publishing...
http://www.insightpublishing.com/

[ResearchGuy]

Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

Thank you for that lovely introduction.

I'm getting lost trying to figure out if Worldwide Library is an imprint of one of the big six.. . . .

Reprint line. I got a slug of those by mail/subscription some years ago. And I think that one was was retitled for the reprint. I find There, in the Swamp! from Hilliard and Harris (not exactly a top-line publisher), apparently the original edition.

Ok, that one is probably not a prime example of a bad book from a major publisher. It is a bad book from a minor [phrase deleted!] publisher.

Edited to add: Ack! H & H is/was . . . icky.

--Ken

[James D. Macdonald]

Here's what we see in the Hilliard & Harris thread in BR&BC here:

Hilliard & Harris is a back-side vanity publisher masquerading as an independent press. It's an author mill that turns profits through author volume. They provide limited POD distribution, no promotion and generate enough sales to pay themselves.

FWIW

Letter from PublishAmerica's CEO: Why we sell books to authors

Because heaven knows no one else will buy them. Selling books back to their own authors at inflated prices is our business plan.

Letter from PublishAmerica's CEO

Given the fractured ESL I'm willing to believe that Willie wrote this himself.

I might do a line-by-line later. Just as a heads up ... Willie, that word "ironically." It doesn't mean what you think it means.

[Queen of Swords]

Just saw this on the Facebook page, in response to the "pricing policy" letter:

My experience with Publish America is limited at best. They accepted my first novel, <title>, and then lost the entire back half of the book which of course, includes the ending of the novel. I commented on this during the editing phase, asking them to allow me to furnish them the lost part of the book. Their argument was that reformatting would be costly and prohibitive.. They said they would publish what they have and then add "TO BE CONTINUED!" TO BE CONTINUED! Another words, after buying the novel and reading, the conclusion will be along later. I asked them Later when? Later where. people must pay twice for the same book? I think not! After a few quiries PA stopped answering my e mail on the matter. As it stands now, I have a book that I worked very hard on, recieved considerable positive feedback upon and it's impossible to sell. Needless to say, I'm not impresses.

[ResearchGuy]

Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

Here's what we see in the Hilliard & Harris thread in BR&BC here: . . . .

Well, that explains much -- but not why the Worldwide Mystery Library folks chose that particularly awful book to reprint. Most of what they reprinted/sent by subscription was pretty decent (not top of the line, but readable enough). That one was a major outlier.

I guess I have to fall back on Chemistry Demystified as my prime example of an awful commercially published book now. And the unintentionally hilarous Dow 36,000.

--Ken