I hate AP

The Lonely One · Apr 15, 2009

Okay, AP style is officially ridiculously stupid.

My editor calls me about a story I wrote stating that a murder occurred at midnight Nov. 24, referring to the beginning of the morning of Nov. 24.

She says "isn't midnight the end of the previous day?" meaning the 23rd. I battled her out for it, stating that of course not, midnight was 12 a.m., meaning 12 a.m. the 24th.

My source was Wikipedia and a few others (including common sense and the rest of the freaking world).

Her source was the AP stylebook. The associated press is such a mother (expletive) sometimes; only AP would suggest 12 a.m. is the end of a previous day. She won. Damn it.

Dear Associated Press: STOP BEING DISAGREEABLE.

Does any of this make sense to you guys? Do you agree with AP or me? Who do you love more?

Claudia Gray · Apr 15, 2009

You just have to internalize that AP stylebook (or whatever stylebook your publication uses). You can make your own cases for anything the AP stylebook doesn't cover, but at any newspaper, magazine or website worth its salt, the stylebook rules.

Haggis · Apr 15, 2009

...or you could have said, "mere moments after midnight."

The Lonely One · Apr 15, 2009

ClaudiaGray said:
You just have to internalize that AP stylebook (or whatever stylebook your publication uses). You can make your own cases for anything the AP stylebook doesn't cover, but at any newspaper, magazine or website worth its salt, the stylebook rules.

It's the bane of my existence. I've been reporting for only about a year so there's still an AP rule here and there I haven't picked up on. This is one of those asinine ones (IMO).

Shouldn't it be midnight p.m. and 12:01 a.m. if AP is the "right" way to tell time? Should midnight really fall into the a.m. category of the previous day? If you said "12 a.m. the previous day" wouldn't that just confuse the hell out of everyone who is normal and God-fearing?

Bah, I'm just disagreeable in general but I think this rule needs updating. Also, we use stylebooks that are several years old, so, that doesn't help.

But aye, I am chained to the piece of crap.

KTC · Apr 15, 2009

11:59:59 is the end of the previous day. I don't give a rat's ass what some style guide says. If it says 12:00am is the end of the previous day--it's wrong. 12:00am is the beginning of the new day.

Silver King · Apr 15, 2009

Like Haggis said, next time just add one or two seconds past midnight, and you'll be safe.

(Until now, I always thought it was a matter of course that days end at 11:59 P.M., and new ones start at 12:00 A.M.).

The Lonely One · Apr 15, 2009

I also wanted to state: in my fiction, I

1.) double space after a period

2.) write in Chicago style (mostly)

3.) refer to MIDNIGHT AS THE MORNING OF THE DAY IT BEGINS

Switching up confuses Lonely One...

The Lonely One · Apr 15, 2009

KTC said:
11:59:59 is the end of the previous day. I don't give a rat's ass what some style guide says. If it says 12:00am is the end of the previous day--it's wrong. 12:00am is the beginning of the new day.

THANK you. See that AP? My army begins...

KTC · Apr 15, 2009

The Lonely One said:
I also wanted to state: in my fiction, I

~~1.) double space after a period~~ -no no.

2.) write in Chicago style (mostly)

3.) refer to MIDNIGHT AS THE MORNING OF THE DAY IT BEGINS

Switching up confuses Lonely One...

.

KTC · Apr 15, 2009

The Lonely One said:
THANK you. See that AP? My army begins...

let me at 'em.

The Lonely One · Apr 15, 2009

KTC said:
.

Eh, I've always done it as a matter of practice (the two spaces after periods).

Makes me feel naughty.

Forgive me father, for I have sinned.

That sort of thing.

A fellow reporter also had to break himself of the double-space thing for the newspaper format.

I have style armies everywhere!

KTC · Apr 15, 2009

The Lonely One said:
Eh, I've always done it as a matter of practice (the two spaces after periods).

Makes me feel naughty.

Forgive me father, for I have sinned. That sort of thing.

A fellow reporter also had to break himself of the double-space thing for the newspaper format.

I have style armies everywhere!

two spaces after a period is a TON of white space. To discover how much, change it to one in a full length manuscript. You will be shocked at the difference.

The Lonely One · Apr 15, 2009

KTC said:
two spaces after a period is a TON of white space. To discover how much, change it to one in a full length manuscript. You will be shocked at the difference.

Shows how much you know--I don't even have a full-length manuscript!

Oh. Wait. :gone:

MaryMumsy · Apr 15, 2009

I think you need to adhere to what your editor wants. To me 12 straight up in the middle of the night is the end of the previous day. The new day starts at 12:00:01. Unless you are working round-the-clock like I used to. Then it was still the day before until we had either slept or the sun had risen.

MM

KTC · Apr 15, 2009

12am is a new day.

benbradley · Apr 15, 2009

Matera the Mad · Apr 15, 2009

As the editor of a small newsletter (and whatever else passes under my discriminating peepers in the course of duty), I am constantly aggravated by two spaces after periods. Of course I am often handed worse things (random tabs, random hard returns, no spaces after commas, obscenely contorted sentences) to repair.

But at least I haven't had to deal with midnight

The Lonely One · Apr 16, 2009

Matera the Mad said:
As the editor of a small newsletter (and whatever else passes under my discriminating peepers in the course of duty), I am constantly aggravated by two spaces after periods. Of course I am often handed worse things (random tabs, random hard returns, no spaces after commas, obscenely contorted sentences) to repair.

But at least I haven't had to deal with midnight

=why I don't double space for articles. Only my personal stuff. Jus' how I roll.

The Lonely One · Apr 16, 2009

KTC said:
12am is a new day.

And yes. the other way is assanine, despite the fact that, OBVIOUSLY, I'll adhere to whatever AP styleguide says.

Millicent M'Lady · Apr 16, 2009

Of course midnight is the start of a new day. That's why on the 24 hour clock, the time switches from 23:59 to 00:00. It's reset to zero for a new day. Pah! Style guides be damned!

Eric San Juan · Apr 16, 2009

It doesn't matter if it's wrong, because as long as you have to use it, it's right. It wins. And that's that.

The Lonely One · Apr 16, 2009

Millicent M'Lady said:
Of course midnight is the start of a new day. That's why on the 24 hour clock, the time switches from 23:59 to 00:00. It's reset to zero for a new day. Pah! Style guides be damned!

Also the sports editor tried to say 12:01 is the new day in AP. Then, 12:00:59 is the previous day still? What?

The Lonely One · Apr 16, 2009

Eric San Juan said:
It doesn't matter if it's wrong, because as long as you have to use it, it's right. It wins. And that's that.

Agreed (when my editor is in earshot). But you must admit this is an interesting convo about style v. common sense.

RJK · Apr 16, 2009

Ya gotta do what the editor says. I'll muddy the water even more describing military time. They use a 24 hour clock. The day starts at Midnight 0000 Hours, and ends at 2359 Hours, rounded to the nearest minute. There is no 2400 Hours, therefore midnight could not be the end of the previous day (for the military).

The Lonely One · Apr 16, 2009

RJK said:
Ya gotta do what the editor says. I'll muddy the water even more describing military time. They use a 24 hour clock. The day starts at Midnight 0000 Hours, and ends at 2359 Hours, rounded to the nearest minute. There is no 2400 Hours, therefore midnight could not be the end of the previous day (for the military).

But no one said I gotta not be a curmudgeon about it

I hate AP

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