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Old 08-04-2008, 09:47 PM   #26
Shadow_Ferret
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Originally Posted by Bartholomew View Post
The Lightning GT only uses 30 batteries? Uh... are they, you know, lying?

Because that's nothing short of an earth-shattering claim in the electric car field.
I remember almost 10 years ago Johnson Controls was working on a super-secret small battery that had as much output as a regular sized car's 12-volt.

And they've been working on lithium-ion batteries for several years, too.
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Old 08-04-2008, 11:59 PM   #27
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It'll be interesting to see. I just hope they keep pressing on and we don't drop all this new stuff and settle back into the old stuff just because gas droped a few cents a gallon.
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:47 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by icerose View Post
It'll be interesting to see. I just hope they keep pressing on and we don't drop all this new stuff and settle back into the old stuff just because gas droped a few cents a gallon.
I certainly hope no one is looking at prices and feeling relieved it's under $4.

Personally, I've been anxious about prices since the day they went over $1. But then I'm a cheap SOB.

In fact, I'm outraged that the gas companies made the highest profits in history--again--breaking last year's 4th quarter records. $15,000 a second while the rest of the country teeters on the brink of a recession just makes me ill.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:06 AM   #29
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Exclamation Caution: Topic Drift

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Originally Posted by Shadow_Ferret View Post
I certainly hope no one is looking at prices and feeling relieved it's under $4.

Personally, I've been anxious about prices since the day they went over $1. But then I'm a cheap SOB.

In fact, I'm outraged that the gas companies made the highest profits in history--again--breaking last year's 4th quarter records. $15,000 a second while the rest of the country teeters on the brink of a recession just makes me ill.
Okay, so how many thousand dollars per second would be acceptable?

I hear a lot about windfall profits, but no one says where the line is. Well, actually, they're starting to say, as this article finally gets around to saying:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1217...w_and_outlooks

Apparently, the only way to stop people being outrageed at gas companies making profits is to "Nationalize" them, have the Government take over. Gas prices will be beyond obscene, we will have The Benevolent Hand Of Government saying who can buy how much gas when, but at least there will be no windfall profits involved.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:14 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by benbradley View Post
I hear a lot about windfall profits, but no one says where the line is. Well, actually, they're starting to say, as this article finally gets around to saying:
I don't recall saying anything about windfall profits or suggesting that they need to be taxed. Capitalism and free market are still the rule of the land.

I don't like that they're making these ginormous profits while the rest of the country suffers because of it, but I'm not suggesting that congress should get involved. I think Obama is guilty of pandering to a panicked public with his proposal (and I'm guilty of aliteration).

Besides, taxing a company for making "too much money" just sounds unAmerican to me and where do you think the consumers fit into all this? Between a rock and a hard place.
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:19 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow_Ferret View Post
I certainly hope no one is looking at prices and feeling relieved it's under $4.

Personally, I've been anxious about prices since the day they went over $1. But then I'm a cheap SOB.

In fact, I'm outraged that the gas companies made the highest profits in history--again--breaking last year's 4th quarter records. $15,000 a second while the rest of the country teeters on the brink of a recession just makes me ill.
I keep hearing about these huge profits, and I'll grant the raw numbers are big.

I think it's poor math to talk in terms of raw dollars, however; what's the Return On Investment? At least then you can argue whether the the ROI is reasonable for the risk involved, and try to justify the case. Just saying that some arbitrary amount is too much is an unfounded argument.

On edit: I found this in the WSJ article, which seems to back up my argument.

Quote:
Maybe they have in mind profit margins as a percentage of sales. Yet by that standard Exxon's profits don't seem so large. Exxon's profit margin stood at 10% for 2007, which is hardly out of line with the oil and gas industry average of 8.3%, or the 8.9% for U.S. manufacturing (excluding the sputtering auto makers).
If that's what constitutes windfall profits, most of corporate America would qualify. Take aerospace or machinery -- both 8.2% in 2007. Chemicals had an average margin of 12.7%. Computers: 13.7%. Electronics and appliances: 14.5%. Pharmaceuticals (18.4%) and beverages and tobacco (19.1%) round out the Census Bureau's industry rankings.
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:41 AM   #32
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I don't recall saying anything about windfall profits or suggesting that they need to be taxed. Capitalism and free market are still the rule of the land.

I don't like that they're making these ginormous profits while the rest of the country suffers because of it, but I'm not suggesting that congress should get involved.
Using the 10 percent figure for Exxon, if they totally eliminated their profit, they would then be selling gas for $3.60 instead of $4. Gas was selling for a lot less than $3.60 a couple years ago, so the profit clearly isn't the greatest cause of the increase in price over the past few years and "the rest of the country suffering."
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Originally Posted by Shadow_Ferret View Post
I think Obama is guilty of pandering to a panicked public with his proposal (and I'm guilty of aliteration).

Besides, taxing a company for making "too much money" just sounds unAmerican to me and where do you think the consumers fit into all this? Between a rock and a hard place.
Okay, but you're so wound up by these profits, you sure give the impression you want "something done" about it.
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Old 08-05-2008, 05:15 AM   #33
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Using the 10 percent figure for Exxon, if they totally eliminated their profit, they would then be selling gas for $3.60 instead of $4.
You're speaking only of "downstream" profit here, that is, the profit from refining and marketing the crude. When the "upstream" cost of crude oil is high, big integrated companies like ExxonMobil, BP, Shell, ChevronTexaco, etc., make huge profits on the crude they produce. Their only concern then is that the price of crude doesn't get driven up so high that it significantly reduces demand. They are always looking for the highest optimum price they can get, that price at which they net the most profit. This summer's unjustified runup in crude prices, driven by investor speculation, was nothing more than a test of what the world market would support, and at what level that "highest optimum" could be set. My guess is that we've returned to something like that level now, with crude in the $120 per barrel range. Notice how so many people here are ecstatic about that. A year ago, we'd have considered $120 crude an outrage.

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Old 08-05-2008, 11:13 AM   #34
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A year ago, we'd have considered $120 crude an outrage.

caw
What do you mean "would have?"

I've got my bike routes all planned. My car exists solely to ferry groceries once a month, and the weekly trip to downtown KCK for my SO to her parents.
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:49 PM   #35
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What do you mean "would have?"

I've got my bike routes all planned. My car exists solely to ferry groceries once a month, and the weekly trip to downtown KCK for my SO to her parents.
Exactly, I'll be happy when gas is under 2 bucks a gallon. As it is, I'm waiting for a good family electric car and you'll NEVER see me pumping gas again.

We're planning to get a motorcycle next year for most of my husband's running since he doesn't really haul anything. It would give me freedom of having a vehicle, and cut down our gas usage by about 50%, which we don't use that much to begin with, but hey, every bit helps.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:18 PM   #36
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Okay, but you're so wound up by these profits, you sure give the impression you want "something done" about it.
So? I can't get wound up and angry about things? We're just supposed to BOHICA and take it quietly?
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:16 AM   #37
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BOHICA?

That sounds like a native american princess or something.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:34 PM   #38
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I got nothin', I'm just stalking Bart to creep him out.
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:23 PM   #39
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I got nothin', I'm just stalking Bart to creep him out.
They should add an internet space clause to those damn restraining orders.
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Old 08-06-2008, 05:09 PM   #40
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BOHICA?

That sounds like a native american princess or something.
<sigh>
BOHICA = Bend Over Here It Comes Again

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Old 08-06-2008, 05:10 PM   #41
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They should add an internet space clause to those damn restraining orders.
Hard to do. Even having a 4 million electron space means he's right there behind you.
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