The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Re: copyrights and posts on PublishAmerica board

Dee, I have to wonder why you're still screwing around with Author Support over at that place. If I were you I'd let my lawyer do the talking.

Think of them as a friend in this instance

For those of you who know or suspect that PA is shorting you on your royalties because the quantities on your royalty statement don't match what you know was ordered, there's one other place you might contact.

Try this link www.irs.gov/irs/article/0...78,00.html and follow the directions. If enough authors report their suspicions, those folks just might do a thorough audit of the books over in Frederick, Maryland.

Forgot to point this out: After all, if they're not giving you proper credit, then they're obviously making false claims concerning sales income to the Feds. So, if you want to give Willem, Larry, and Miranda all-expense paid vacations to Club Fed, this is one sure way to do it.

Re: PA srikes close to home

This book is not even out yet but they have convinced the author he must do pre-sales and send them all the money so they can expedite the publication of his 18.95 masterpiece.

Hey, lastr, this looks like something new. Any of our PA authors like to comment? When did they start collecting "pre-sale" money to "expedite" publication?

This fits in very well with the rumors that PublishAmerica is facing some kind of cash crunch.

Anyone have any more details on this?

Re: Think of them as a friend in this instance

For those of you who know or suspect that PA is shorting you on your royalties because the quantities on your royalty statement don't match what you know was ordered

Click to expand...

I haven't received anything from them yet.

Money, money

Sounds like PA also needs 60 accountants.

Re: copyrights and posts on PublishAmerica board

"PublishAMerica does not recognize that the person who posts on their boards owns the copyright to their posts."

And yet aren't all those posts winding up here without permission?

Re: Private PA Posts

"In the meantime, many of those posts contain information that PA will delete because it's controversial or reveals what's going on at PA. If those aren't copied and posted elsewhere, many other PA writers won't ever see those before PA's censor strikes."

I disagree. I *do* think that while saving them on hard copy (just in case legal action is taken by someone and the proof is needed) posting them verbatim on another site is crossing a line.

I also think it bogs down the obvious, real reasons why authors should not publish with PA. There's a lot of great information on here that gets lost in the arguments and name calling.

Re: Private PA Posts

the reason a lot of these posts are reprinted here is because PA flushes them the instant the PA author (since they are the only ones who can post) begins to question any of the policies.

so if a new author goes to the PA message boards, all they see is the brightness and cheerful natterings of those who are buying the company line - no dissention is allowed. And, of course, the potential audience/victim looks over and says "well, if no one has anything BAD to say about them, then it must be a good company!".

by reposting the messages that ARE being deleted due to their content in a public place, people are able to see what PA keeps trying to hide - the hard questions from their authors about the no-return policy and details about their problems trying to get their books into stores that won't have any part of them, despite PA's lies to the contrary. Keeping the posts on your hard drive does nothing to help those looking for a bit more than the glossy facade that PublishAmerica tries to keep up by banning authors and removing posts that have even a hint of criticism or controversy.

frankly, I'm more curious about the "pre-sale" story above than any blathering about people's rights being violated by transferring their posts here. They should be more concerned about their small, pithy royalty checks that should be arriving soon and now that PA is asking for money up front, should the story be true...

Re: Private PA Posts

I've been in the whole "copyrighted posts" situation before (or rather, a pal of mine who ran a large messageboard where posts from another messageboard were posted frequently).

It's all bull. With a side of whining.

The only people who can sue absolutewrite for posting messages from the PA messageboard is PA (or rather, the person who owns the PA messageboard). Seeing as how the posts quoted here are displayed publicly on the PA messageboard, and often linked to from here, PA would have a hard time suing anyone for anything. Copying ten, or even a hundred, posts out of thousands is not a copy-right violation. Absolutewrite is not making any money by copying the posts, nor are they costing PA any money (unless you count the authors who do not sign on with them because of what they've read here, thereby avoiding being scammed by PA, which of course leaves PA without thousands of dollars. But they're a TRADITIONAL publisher, so they don't depend on their own euthors to buy their books, right?) PA has also deleted plenty of the threads quoted in this thread (quickly, someone tell the people who posted in those threads to SUE! PA deleted their property!), so they'd have a hell of a time proving that the threads were of any importance or use to them.

Aside from that, any PA author claiming that their reputation has been damaged by anything posted here would have to prove it. If, for example, Bob Bobson writes "Women are inferior and I dislike all female editors" on the PA messageboard and that post is posted here, resulting in a large number of female editors refusing to read anything Bob Bobson sumbits to them--he only has himself to blame. He would also have to prove that his reputation has suffered due to postings at absolutewrite, not just because he's an insufferable git.

I doubt PA would waste time and money on pursuing such an uncertain and potentially damaging case for the sake of a few of their authors. Apparently they can't even be bothered to speak to their authors civilly, or promote them--so why would they do anything about a few posts being quoted here?

Add to that the disclaimer placed on this messageboard, along with the fact that this is part of ezboard. The worst PA can do is get this board closed, or warned.

How long does it take to "edit" a book?

If the book is say 90,000 words how long would it take? Truly edited, not a spell and grammer check on a word processing program.

Thanks

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com

Publishers and Editors

For those of us who have posted on this thread that have basically, and very publicly, voiced our concerns about our publisher-- occasionally with a hefty dose of whining; how does this effect us in the future? If an editor or a publisher from another company reads these posts, then a few years down the road a great manuscript from one of the posters hits their desk, do you/they think, "Hmmm. This name rings a bell... Could it be the whiner that openly slammed their publisher? Gee, I don't think I want them here..."
Just wondering!

Hmmm...

Just this morning on the Mindsight board I read a post from Dodgem James that although he disagreed with being banned from AW he was not going to disguise his ISP and return. I believe he said he respected Jenna's right to ban.

Then again, he also said he was not going to respond to any posts following his own on the Mindsight board and he fibbed about that one too.

Wasn't DJ "just" a clerk in a bookstore? And isn't his current preferred axe to grind the issue of c/p-ing PA posts here?

Coincidence I'm sure.

Not.

Publishers and Editors

I was only responding to one person stating that she wanted her posts removed from the PA board due to her ownership of copyright. She can't make that statement and then post other people's private correspondence in the same complaint.
I do feel, however, that the issue goes much deeper than what is presented here. Isn't so much a matter of suing someone as it is bad taste for those who should be, above all, respectful of copyright period.

But to answer the concern over whether or not publishers will reject your manuscript based on what you write here I doubt it. My publisher was more concerned with what I was willing to do with my book and much less so who may have published my previous work. PA is not the black mark that some may feel it is.
Bad writing, that's a black mark.

PA strikes close to home

I've never heard this before or received anything like this from PA. It would be interesting to see if they are using an author's personal information to market this sales campaign only to elderly writers.

This is terrible if is true. It sure doesn't sound correct. Even Meiner couldn't be that stupid.

It would be a new low but the story sounds fishy. Lastr is replying on second and third hand information at this time to make such a negative and possible libelous claim.

Produce the proof and take PA down if they are pulling this on elderly people. You are making this public accusation without the proof in hand.

Oh, remember never to say his name (you know who) again on the message board. He loves the free advertisement. He smiles everytime his name is mentioned since it is part of his marketing strategy.

Re: Publishers and Editors

If an editor or a publisher from another company reads these posts, then a few years down the road a great manuscript from one of the posters hits their desk, do you/they think, "Hmmm. This name rings a bell... Could it be the whiner that openly slammed their publisher? Gee, I don't think I want them here..."

Nah. First of all, editors and publishers aren't stupid. They know PublishAmerica isn't a real publisher -- if they know about PA at all. They might think, "Ah, someone who came to their senses," if they thought about it at all.

Mostly, though, the thing to remember is that the work stands on its own. Some published authors are tremendous jerks. Forget slamming previous shady scamsters -- they slam the publisher who currently has them in print. The editors continue to buy their books -- if they're well-written.

Re: copyrights and posts on PublishAmerica board

"I was only responding to one person stating that she wanted her posts removed from the PA board due to her ownership of copyright. She can't make that statement and then post other people's private correspondence in the same complaint.

I made that statement to show that PublishAmerica believes that by posting on their board, the poster gives up their copyright. I wanted my posts removed because I don't want to be associated with PublishAmerica and used the violation of copyright as the reason to get them removed.

And to answer James, I am letting our attorney talk for us. However the post about copyrights was right before we told our lawyers to proceed.

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com

Hmmmm... indeed.

I'm Dodgem James, Proccon is Larry (there was a post there that seemed to indicate that he, too, might be Dodgem James)...

I'm seeing a pattern here.
:shrug

Re: copyrights and posts on PublishAmerica board

I'm just pointing out that you can't claim copyright violation while doing the exact thing that you are claiming is wrong.

Just a thought.

Spoke with the elderly gentleman today on pre-sales

I went to the source today and called my mother's friend and her brother. PA did NOT state he had to do pre-sales, they are too clever for that. They either sent him the Independance Books information or he read about it, they did send him the NYT ad info, asked for the list of friends and family, and told him that his first order would be at a good author's discount and if it was during a particular time frame he could also get royalties. He added all that up and figured that if he got all of his circle to pre-order from him he could then send the money in for the books up front and get all the goodies they were implying in the stuff they sent him and what is on the PA Message Board.

I sent him the links to some posts off the PA Board about how PA could not get books out on time, non-return policy, and other things that have not been pulled yet. He has agreed that if he got all that money up front and sent it in as an order and if something happened and the books took too long to come he might have people mad at him or worse asking for their money back and he could be stuck with a closet full of books. He has decided not to go into the wholesale book market afterall (Yes!). So they never came out and asked him for the pre-sale money, they just gave him the same lines everyone else had been given, he read about all the people ordering now for a chance at that golden ring off the PA Message Board, took the bait and ran with it. I tried to leave him with his dream intact but his radar is up at least now.

And before someone posts that he must be an idiot, or didn't understand what PA was saying to him, he is a delightful gent who has apparently dreamed for 24 years about getting his book in print and was told at a free seminar for seniors about this wonderful publisher. He belongs to the generation that believes what they are told by teachers, and other respected people - he had no reason not to trust the information given at that seminar. He is not out and about on the internet, someone came fishing in his pond to hook him.

Re: copyrights and posts on PublishAmerica board

I'm just pointing out that you can't claim copyright violation while doing the exact thing that you are claiming is wrong.

Click to expand...

To be fair, she did bring up the e-mails to make a point, to show that individuals do not hold the copyright to things they post on the PA board. Aside from that, she was talking to this Jessica person about EVERY SINGLE post she's ever made. This thread uses a few posts here and there by different PA-board members, not every single one they've ever made (unless they're very new posters who have only ever posted once or something). There's a bit of a difference there.

But as I said before, you don't hold the copyright to things you post on a messageboard owned by someone else.

Re: copyrights and posts on PublishAmerica board

Actually, I believe there is enough difference in how those would be used to make that statement incorrect. Using it for advertising as PA would do is considerably different from fair use which is what is occurring here and on some other sites.

The purpose here is not to benefit ourselves, but to educate others and perform critical analysis of some of the contents we've discovered. If on the otherhand, we were taking posts to use in a book that we would then sell on the open market, that would be treading on treacherous ground. Depending, of course, on how it was used in the book. There would still be some possible uses that would fall within fair use, but at that point it would be preferred and much safer to get permission from each author who would be quoted.

In fact, to be fair, even the PA contract could be considered copyrighted. I know of at least one publisher that does consider its contract to be copyrighted. However, the principle of fair use permits it to be copied in total because that's the only way to perform a critical analysis and educate other writers as to what they could be facing. We're not copying it to use as our own model for profit.

And that is what sets this apart from the demand that Dee is making. She has since discovered that PA was unfaithful in its contract because of fraudulent inducement and deception by omission. She has a right to deprive them of her words, despite their posted claim of a right to use those, because of their prior actions.

By the way, thanks for confirming that ProandCon was Larry as I suspected.

Re: ProandCon

Silence might be golden here - deleted my post

Two Sides To the Coin

In one post the intent of reposting PA messages is to keep them safe from deletion, in another it's to provide critical analysis. Would it be safe to assume that the former reason is theft while the latter is fair use?

And whatever Dee's reasons are for demanding her "words" back either she owns the copyright to them or she doesn't. You don't revert copyright on messages in a messageboard simply because the company in question contracted your book in bad faith.

Dee has the right to request it. PA has the right to refuse. My personal opinion: Dee, this is a minor issue that could take away from your overall goal. Let it go.

Re: copyrights and posts on PublishAmerica board

... you don't hold the copyright to things you post on a messageboard owned by someone else.

Actually, you do.

Unless and until they sign the rights over to someone else, the authors have the copyright on their own words from the moment they type them.

Hmmmm... indeed.

Welcome back Mr. McCann. It's good to see some balance back on the board if you can stay out of trouble. LOL

I always enjoy your posts. Some remarks I agree with and some I don't but they are still amusing. Some people just don't get your sense of humor or understand when your toes are stepped on. Yet once they are stepped on you never forget. One wrong word and you're back on that horse! LOL

It was good to see Lastr post the actual correction after hearing everything first hand. I have to applaud the effort put forth to protect an elderly person. I'm sure he'll make an educated decision now and keep his money in his pocket.

Heck, even some younger authors at PA are probably going into debt trying to buy their way to get on the New York Times ad. There were plenty of posts before they were pulled by authors warning others not to go wild buying a bunch of books for the ten available slots. You could tell they were hooked and didn't want to hear the warning. Oh well, more money for the big Miami party!!!

You going to the big party, Mr. Kuzminski? I'm sure Meiners would welcome you with open arms!