A question for the ladies out there.

jennifer75 said:

Like....myspace??? Internet dating is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. For most. Not all....so I don't want to see a huge wave of "no it's not...."

But then again, maybe it will be an option for the OPer.

Also, how do you mean when your confidence got "we're gonna need a bigger boat" huge? Is this why you're fleeing TX for another town.....one where the size of your confidence is not yet discovered

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Ha! I was exaggerating. I've been told that my ego is visible from space. I like to think I'm just real.

As far as places / situations to meet girls where intros are all but taken care of smaller "get together" type of gatherings - as opposed to parties - come to mind. Dinners with friends where someone invites a single female (just make sure it's not an obvious "intent-to-pair-up" situation, as that only makes it extra awkward).

Situations where the conversation isn't about one person trying to impress the other or dig for information, but just two people talking.

I personally don't get down with internet dating. I've never approached a girl on myspace who I didn't already know in real life. It just seems sorta weird. That's just me.

Jcomp said:

smaller "get together" type of gatherings - as opposed to parties - come to mind. Dinners with friends where someone invites a single female (just make sure it's not an obvious "intent-to-pair-up" situation, as that only makes it extra awkward).

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Good points. But say the OP doesn't a tight enough circle of friends that she could find herself in one the above situations.

jennifer75 said:

Good points. But say the OP doesn't a tight enough circle of friends that she could find herself in one the above situations.

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See what kind of groups / clubs (not "nightclubs") are located in your area that might have people who share your interests.

Is there a local writing club? Book club? Silent-Film-Lovers club? Any-other-interest club? The icebreaker is circumvented because you'll have to introduce yourself to the club at large in your first meeting, and there's no pressure in trying to immediately impress someone because you're just there to share your common love of whatever interests you.

If there are girls in the club that you're interested in, all the better, but even if not, chances are it's a relatively easy way to build out your circle of friends and meet their friends, and then we're back to the "socializing at get-togethers and dinners" thing.

The worst that can happen is you meet a bunch of people you don't particularly care for, have no obligation whatsoever to continue interacting with them, and then move on.

My own personal example, I was painfully shy around women until I got a corporate job with a large company (not exactly a local club, but still). My big hurdle was the icebreaker. I was great once introductions were out of the way, but worrying over introducing myself would kill all opportunities for me. But at the job it was different. You have to introduce yourself as you're working with people, attending meetings, luncheons, pot lucks, birthdays, training sessions, so on and so forth. With that out of the way, all I had to worry about was being me. And not long after that my confidence (which up to that point I'd primarily pretended to have) went through the roof. Of a skyscraper. Seriously, it was a pretty significant transformation for me. One of the best things to ever happen to me, easily.

Mind you, this is just one course. Others have also proposed good ideas, some as simple as "Fake it 'til you make it."

Efreysson....J's got some good points....check out local clubs of interest...if anything you'll expand your circle and maybe one of them is the link between you and that special someone out there.

Jcomp said:

Ha! I've been told that my ego is visible from space.

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Jcomp said:

It helps to put yourself in situations where you can pursue women without having to worry about the dreaded "icebreaker."

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I actually have the opposite problem. The icebreaker is fine, I can talk to strangers ok (despite all my mother's warnings ), even female ones. The problem I have is the next step, communicating the fact that I want to go from friend to boyfriend.

I'm a woman and I wish I could help but I'm helpless when it comes to any aspect of flirting. I can't do it!

JimmyB27 said:

The problem I have is the next step, communicating the fact that I want to go from friend to boyfriend.

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Well, that's an easy one:

1: Send her a query letter with all of your basic information. Make sure to include your special traits (snore volume, peck-dance duration, etc.) and remember to include any successful past relationships. Friendships and internet relationships do not count.

2a: Wait three to four weeks. She may ask for a synopsis, so be prepared to write one or have one already prepared (2k words maximum). Include only the important aspects of yourself and your past. Remember, she's probably very busy.

2b: If you do not hear back by then, take it as a rejection and try again. The carpet-bomb query method is NOT advised here.

3a: If she likes what she reads, she may ask to meet you in person. Keep in mind that rejection is not too late at this point, but your chances are quite good.

3b: Refer to 2b.

4: If you're still in the game at this point and the up-front meeting has gone well, congratulations, she's interested! (Note* Future binding contracts may be required, along with multiple-child deals.)

JimmyB27 said:

The problem I have is the next step, communicating the fact that I want to go from friend to boyfriend.

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I understand what you mean, but I find it interesting you put it like this.

NEVER start with the assumption that she is going to be your "girlfriend". That title ("girlfriend") is only reserved for those who are WORTHY of your time and attention.

And it should take you a few weeks and several dates AT THE VERY LEAST to determine that much.

Focus on communicating the fact that you want to take her out. Then when you have her out, show her that you're more than just friends by kissing her (when the moment is right--not always the end of the date and doesn't always happen on the FIRST date either ).

Decide if you want to take her on a second date, and if you do, CALL HER again.

My point is...baby steps. You're not seeking a girlfriend the first time you talk to her. You're seeking a date. If you enter the interaction thinking she's going to be your girlfriend, it's going to put HUGE amounts of pressure on you.

Also, it helps if you realize that YOU are qualifying HER and not the other way around. YOU are the catch. YOU have something to offer and should be sizing HER up to see if she meets YOUR standards.

James81 said:

I understand what you mean, but I find it interesting you put it like this.

NEVER start with the assumption that she is going to be your "girlfriend". That title ("girlfriend") is only reserved for those who are WORTHY of your time and attention.

And it should take you a few weeks and several dates AT THE VERY LEAST to determine that much.

Focus on communicating the fact that you want to take her out. Then when you have her out, show her that you're more than just friends by kissing her (when the moment is right--not always the end of the date and doesn't always happen on the FIRST date either ).


Decide if you want to take her on a second date, and if you do, CALL HER again.

My point is...baby steps. You're not seeking a girlfriend the first time you talk to her. You're seeking a date. If you enter the interaction thinking she's going to be your girlfriend, it's going to put HUGE amounts of pressure on you.

Also, it helps if you realize that YOU are qualifying HER and not the other way around. YOU are the catch. YOU have something to offer and should be sizing HER up to see if she meets YOUR standards.

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I quoted it so you can read it again. Echo everything James81 said.

Richard

This may not be helpful in any way other than moral support but I tend to over think things way too much too. We all do it. You're not alone, those of us that are supposed to be normal have just as much problems. (I don't ever assume that I'm normal, but I'm happy being adorably odd.)

Also I love the query letter explanation. If someone sent me a real one. Oh man. He'd be in. lol. I mean if I liked his synopsis I would definitely give him a chance. haha. I'm posting that on my blog.

Sew chaos and have money. This will attract women like Tim Allen's security lights attract attract angry neighbors.

I don't think single women are shy these days when they like someone, well not all of them. Just enjoy being friends. Often great freindships develope into more. Suggest a coffee, if she says no, she definately is not interested. If she says yes, she may just be looking for companionship....take each moment as they come. Enjoy each other companie and let what happens happen. You can't force things like that.

I don't think single women are shy these days when they like someone, well not all of them. Just enjoy being friends. Often great freindships develope into more. Suggest a coffee, if she says no, she may not be interested. If she says yes, she may just be looking for companionship....take each moment as they come. Enjoy each others company and let what happens, happen. You can't force things like that.

James81 said:

I understand what you mean, but I find it interesting you put it like this.

NEVER start with the assumption that she is going to be your "girlfriend". That title ("girlfriend") is only reserved for those who are WORTHY of your time and attention.

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Ok then, fine. I have trouble taking any first step. And surely the ultimate goal here is finding a girlfriend, whether this particular time will pay off or not?

Also, it helps if you realize that YOU are qualifying HER and not the other way around. YOU are the catch. YOU have something to offer and should be sizing HER up to see if she meets YOUR standards.

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I am? I can't possibly imagine why.

Just kidding. I'm still pretty low in self esteem, but not that much. Still, I'd prefer to think that we're both the catch.

JimmyB27 said:

Ok then, fine. I have trouble taking any first step. And surely the ultimate goal here is finding a girlfriend, whether this particular time will pay off or not?

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Look at it this way...

When you buy a house, it's going to be a RARE thing that you can just lump sum outright buy with cash, right?

No, you take out a loan, and you make small payments every month. So long as you are making the payments on time, you don't beat yourself up because it's not paid off do you? Yet your ULTIMATE goal is to pay it off someday and own it. But you don't thik about that when you make the payments. If you obsess about paying off your house in the first years of your mortgage, you are going to be one miserable person for a VERY long time.

It's the same sort of thing. Don't obsess about the final goal. Just worry about making the "payments". Because you know those "payments" will LEAD to the final goal eventually. Worry about the NEXT step instead of the whole ball of wax and you can relax a lot more.

That's all I'm saying. When you have low self-esteem, any form of relaxation you can get really helps.

JimmyB27 said:

I am? I can't possibly imagine why.

Just kidding. I'm still pretty low in self esteem, but not that much. Still, I'd prefer to think that we're both the catch.

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No, no no no no.

You still have "boyfriend/girlfriend" mentality.

YES, when you finally have a girl that you can call a "girlfrien", you can think of you both as a catch.

But UNTIL then, your goal is to get to know her. No more, no less. If you immediately believe that the girl you are talking out on a first date is a real catch, then you are fooling yourself.

Make her PROVE that to you. Because there are a LOT of girls who are NOT real good catches out there. Just because she has a vagina is no reason to put her on any kind of pedastool. Put her on her pedastool when you discover how wonderful she is, over time. Don't start with her on the pedastool or you are going to make yourself a nervous wreck, constantly qualifying yourself to her instead of making HER show you why she's worth a second date to you. Your time and attention are valuable, you know. If you don't believe that, then you are not ready to be dating yet.

(And don't worry, SHE should be making YOU prove that YOU are a good catch too. I'm just putting it this way because I'm talking to you)

But there needs to be some level of 'I'm interested in you', right? I mean, you might be paying off that house in small increments, but you make sure you're buying one you like. Or I'm going to be heading down that 'friends' route again. Which is apparently a bad thing.

Anyway, on topic (sorry for the derail), I hope we're making it clear that it's not just people with Asperger's who have problems with the opposite sex.

James81 said:

Look at it this way...
Make her PROVE that to you. Because there are a LOT of girls who are NOT real good catches out there. Just because she has a vagina is no reason to put her on any kind of pedastool. Put her on her pedastool when you discover how wonderful she is, over time. Don't start with her on the pedastool or you are going to make yourself a nervous wreck, constantly qualifying yourself to her instead of making HER show you why she's worth a second date to you. Your time and attention are valuable, you know. If you don't believe that, then you are not ready to be dating yet.

(And don't worry, SHE should be making YOU prove that YOU are a good catch too. I'm just putting it this way because I'm talking to you)

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Good advice. No to mention that being put up on a pedestal and venerated makes a lot of women very uncomfortable. I went out with one guy in particular who did just that; he also spent inordinate amounts of time telling me about how much he understood me "as a woman," how he could relate to me "as a woman," etc. Even worse. I never did figure out if he ever once saw me as an individual human being, or as some fuzzy ideal of "woman."

Maybe don't even think of it as a "date" - mybe just think of it as getting together with someone you'd like to get to know better. Don't get all wound up in this sort of "relationship" mode - at least not until you've gotten to know each other a little better and seen if that's the way you'd want to go. Keep it casual at first.

JimmyB27 said:

But there needs to be some level of 'I'm interested in you', right? I mean, you might be paying off that house in small increments, but you make sure you're buying one you like. Or I'm going to be heading down that 'friends' route again. Which is apparently a bad thing.

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Your "interest" on a first date is purely physical for the most part. I mean how else CAN it be when you don't even know her?

The whole POINT of dating is to GET TO KNOW someone to "qualify" them per se. This whole jazz of "getting to know someone" BEFORE you date them is kinda BS if you ask me. It's a prime way for a guy such as yourself to get friendzoned.

(I don't mean that as a cut on you, but you freely admit to struggling with women. And you're definately not a lone there. I've been in your shoes and I STILL struggle with women, although my attitudes have changed and since they have changed I have become a lot more confident in who I am and a lot happier because I avoid those situations that used to give me grief.)

Fascinating thread and great discussion. I particularly liked the idea of watching something like Friends with the sound off etc.

On another "virtual" note I'd recomend checking out the MMO (Massively-Multiplayer Online) game Second Life (www.secondlife.com). It's free, and assuming you're computer / gaming literate enough to get around in the game it could be helpful. I do know that there is an "island" (big bit of land) with a section for people with Asperger's Syndrome and they they work in Second Life's virtual environment to learn more about body language, etc. etc. I don't know if there are either doctor's or people without AS that participate, but in any case it may be another tool to try on your journey.

This isn't really TIO material. Please read "Differences between TIO and OP"

If you're blowing off steam about general life stuff, that goes in Office Party, too. Or if you're worried about a member, or there's something horrible in the news, etc. I know it may feel kind of funny posting serious things in "Office Party," but that is still the appropriate place for it.

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Underline is mine - 'something [horrible] in the news' belongs on the Politics and Current Events board.

Thank you.

Moving to Office Party. Please fasten your seatbelts, and return your seatbacks and tray tables to their upright, locked positions.