Lanico Enterprise / Lanico Media House (formerly Living Waters Publishing Co.)

brianm said:

Something else that has bothered me.

I can understand a publisher allowing a possible future client access to their boilerplate contract, but it boggles the mind that a publisher would furnish copies of twenty existing contracts to this same person for review. Why would they do that?

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Because they were hiring the person to promote their services.

I can think of no other explanation for anyone getting contracts and creditor references.

Agreed.
Only an employee would have access to that kind of information.
If he's telling the truth about the information, that is.

contract

I submitted, was offered a traditional contract, no fees or charges required. Had my attorney check the contract. His response? "I see no reason not to sign."

How familiar is your attorney with the publishing industry?

I'll tell you all what, as I'm feeling like I'm in front of a firing squad: if you have legitimate questions, call the company, or email them at [email protected]. THIS is getting ridiculous. I don't mind staying around and looking at this mess. It shows me what I will and will not do with my own sites.

Now, you have one of their authors saying, "I didn't pay anything. It was traditional."
But oh no... that's not good enough and so I believe someone is jealous or possibly employed by the competition.

If anyone on this list is remotely interested in truth, contact the company. Get references. They do offering self-publishing assistance. They also offer what you guys call vanity publishing, but that doesn't negate the fact that they have 100 traditional contracts in which the client paid nothing. So, do what you will. Crucify them all. I just thank my lucky stars it's not my business.

I worked in Acquisitions, as I stated earlier. So, please don't attack me for disagreeing. Or for typos. I never changed my story. Traditional publishers do get all the rights, most times. Not your right to claim your own book. That's retarded. First rights (US) and second. Some don't, but many do.

allabout - I've been reading this thread, following it along. The problem that people are facing right now is who to trust. On one side we have you and the other poster. On the other, the company's OWN WEBSITE. Maybe you could explain why what is written on their website about their traditional publishing is written on their website. Is it an error? Is it old information? These are genuine questions. How are we supposed to understand otherwise when their own words are telling us that you pay to be traditionally published with the company?

Also please please do not fall into the trap of claiming the people here are jealous. Many people who come to this forum only to defend their company, but not participate in this community, fall into this trap and it is unfortunate because it makes any sound arguments they say later on highly suspect. If you did any research on the people posting here, you would understand how absurd such a statement is.

First rights (US) and second. Some don't, but many do.

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That's not the same as All Rights.

Very,or I wouldn't have chosen him! He reviews ALL of my contacts, I haven't been burned yet.

allabouttheindustry said:

I'll tell you all what, as I'm feeling like I'm in front of a firing squad: if you have legitimate questions, call the company, or email them at [email protected]. THIS is getting ridiculous. I don't mind staying around and looking at this mess. It shows me what I will and will not do with my own sites.

Now, you have one of their authors saying, "I didn't pay anything. It was traditional."
But oh no... that's not good enough and so I believe someone is jealous or possibly employed by the competition.

If anyone on this list is remotely interested in truth, contact the company. Get references. They do offering self-publishing assistance. They also offer what you guys call vanity publishing, but that doesn't negate the fact that they have 100 traditional contracts in which the client paid nothing. So, do what you will. Crucify them all. I just thank my lucky stars it's not my business.

I worked in Acquisitions, as I stated earlier. So, please don't attack me for disagreeing. Or for typos. I never changed my story. Traditional publishers do get all the rights, most times. Not your right to claim your own book. That's retarded. First rights (US) and second. Some don't, but many do.

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You're not in front of a firing squad. Think of it as being in front of a bunch of journalists, ones who ask tough questions. Again, what's wrong with tough questions? It's the same thing I said in the Zumaya thread, honest people/companies should never be afraid of tough questions.

But in any event, I think you're putting in too much effort on behalf of a company you don't work for. Let them defend themselves. As for them having 100 traditional contracts, that's great. Now, if you insist on defending them, tell me what B&N, Borders, or other store I can go into to purchase one of these books.

sschank64@sbcglobal. said:

Very,or I wouldn't have chosen him! He reviews ALL of my contacts, I haven't been burned yet.

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Was he experienced with publishing contracts before he started reviewing your contracts, or did he pick up on publishing only after you became a writer? I'm not asking to be a pain but because publishing contracts are specialized and very complex. A lawyer whose only experience is contract law could read a publishing contract and think it's acceptable because he doesn't understand publishing contracts - yet that contract could be littered with nonstandard clauses and other minefields.

For example, some aspiring authors have asked their lawyers (even contract lawyers) to read the PublishAmerica contract before signing up for PA. In many cases, the lawyers thought the contract was fine. But that contract is far from acceptable -- their lawyers simply thought that the contract was OK because it looks acceptable to someone without publishing experience. Unfortunately, some authors signed up with PA because their lawyer had said they saw no problem with the contract, and since then, they learned better.

How does your contract compare to the contracts on SFWA's Contracts page?
http://www.sfwa.org/contracts/
(For example, here's the model paperback contract: http://www.sfwa.org/contracts/pb_cont.htm)

sschank64@sbcglobal. said:

I submitted, was offered a traditional contract, no fees or charges required. Had my attorney check the contract. His response? "I see no reason not to sign."

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Sschank,

Welcome to AW. I hope you will take some time to familiarize yourself with this wonderful writers' forum. May I suggest you post a thread in the newbie section introducing yourself so that we can all get to know you a wee bit better?

We are trying to determine what this particular publisher offers writers. Why do we care? Because AW members have come to trust these threads when researching publishers they are considering for publication. Members like Victoria, James MacDonald, and others have been assisting new writers like you for many years and their advice and knowledge has helped many a new writer advance in their writing careers.

Based on their website, LW appears to be a vanity press. Based on what I have read by googling the owner’s name, she has little to no publishing experience and many of the books offered by this publisher are written by her. Two warning signs. They offer “traditional” publishing that includes fees and they offer financing for vanity publication. Two more warning signs. If they aren’t charging fees, they need to remove that information from their site.

Distribution and marketing play heavily in whether or not a book sells. Do you know who their distributor is? Do you know if they have a sales staff that has experience and contacts in the book buying world? Will they be releasing galleys of your book in advance of publication for review? What other prerelease marketing will they be doing for your book? How many books will they be printing for the first run? Or is their business model based on POD technology?

Perhaps you would be willing to provide a copy of your contract to Victoria/WriterBeware? This may seem intrusive, but many writers do share their contracts in confidence with Victoria. Her opinion of the contract would put to rest many questions we have about this publisher.

Because you have a contract with LW, you can share a great deal of useful information that other new/first time published writers like you can use when determining whether or not to submit to this publisher. I hope you will do so, and that you will understand no one is taking aim at you personally when asking pointed questions.

Best of luck with your first book being released by Purple Sky Publishing.

I'll be glad to take a look at a Living Waters contract and offer some comments. It won't be a legal opinion--I'm not a lawyer--but it's based on a good bit of experience and a sound knowledge of the publishing industry. My email address is [email protected] .

- Victoria

Toothpaste said:

allabout - I've been reading this thread, following it along. The problem that people are facing right now is who to trust. On one side we have you and the other poster. On the other, the company's OWN WEBSITE. Maybe you could explain why what is written on their website about their traditional publishing is written on their website. Is it an error? Is it old information? These are genuine questions. How are we supposed to understand otherwise when their own words are telling us that you pay to be traditionally published with the company?

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This is really well put, Toothpaste. sschank64 has, by his/her account, been offered a regular contract: no fees, just an agreement to publish (and, one assumes, a royalty agreement). However, the Living Waters website makes no mentions of such contracts.

That's an interesting contradiction right there. Why doesn't Living Waters publicize this on its own website? That would certainly help with their credibility gap vis-a-vis third parties--on the other hand, it might arouse dissent among the pay-for-play authors.

In any case, sschank64, I wish you luck with your book, and I hope Living Waters does a good job of publishing and distributing it for you.

Thank you Icecream! I am looking forward to working with them. They seem like good people. And yes, it is a royalty contract, and a step-up one at that. Happy New Year!

PS, for whoever it was earlier firing at my attorney-I hired him BECAUSE one of his specialty areas is publishing law. I use a different lawyer for my speeding tickets (of which there seem to be a lot lately). I hope that will end the discussion on whether or not my attorney is competant.

It is more likely to end that conversation of not addressed with capital letters and a kind of demand As with most issues raised it reflects the fact that most people who use a lawyer don't go to a specialist. That may well continue to be discussed.

sschank64@sbcglobal. said:

Thank you Icecream! I am looking forward to working with them. They seem like good people. And yes, it is a royalty contract, and a step-up one at that. Happy New Year!

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I hope it all works out for you.

sschank64@sbcglobal. said:

PS, for whoever it was earlier firing at my attorney-I hired him BECAUSE one of his specialty areas is publishing law. I use a different lawyer for my speeding tickets (of which there seem to be a lot lately). I hope that will end the discussion on whether or not my attorney is competant.

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No one was firing at your attorney. I asked those questions because I wanted to make sure you had an attorney who knew what publishing contracts can be like. I've seen too many people come to these boards and say "But my attorney read the contract and said it was fine." Later it turns out that the attorney isn't familiar with publishing contracts, and the writers often end up bound to a bad contract. (This can happen with big name publishers, too.)

It happens more often than you might think because from what I understand, attorneys with a knowledge of publishing law tend to be harder to find, not to mention more expensive. Congrats on finding one.

Not defending, just telling the truth

Guys,

I'm not trying to make enemies, but some of the sarcasm and harshness is apparent on this thread. All I'm asking is to stop speculating. No one has said that Living Waters doesn't charge authors for publication. What I've said repeatedly is that they do three different programs, two of which require author fees.

I did invite a couple of their employees to this site. I found that they are contracted with someone to update their site because their cooperative program is a part of their traditional department. In other words, not every author pays something. They do it all. So call it vanity if you want. I can live with that. They are a vanity publisher that also grants traditional, royalty-based contracts.

I don't know if any of you notice this, but this is like an angry mob with nothing to be angry about. You can find numerous books by them and find out more about their authors. Look at Rosalee Wilson, Karen Nivens, John Schroeder, Mark Heber Miller, Marisa Gary, Jeanette Patindol, Donna Shepherd and the other lady here. These are people you can look up online and find out more about the company from those who would know. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! The very site you continue to quote tells you on the services page that they do both traditional and self-publishing. The front page tells you they have a cooperative program as a part of their traditional contracts.

For those who want more information, I have permission to give you this email address: [email protected]. Jessica will attend to any question you have.

Once a publisher goes the vanity route, all credibility kind of goes out the window. What are the traditionally published authors supposed to do, make little stickers for their books that say something like, I didn't pay to have this published, it actually passed some kind of quality control?

It's more like a sarcastic mob. The worst that could happen is getting pelted with little olives on sticks.

Did I miss the free martini hour again?

allabouttheindustry said:

I'm not trying to make enemies, but some of the sarcasm and harshness is apparent on this thread. All I'm asking is to stop speculating.

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Ask what you like, but it's a free country. I think this speculation provides some very useful information to writers who are considering working with Living Waters Publishing.

For those who want more information, I have permission to give you this email address: [email protected]

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You have "permission" to give us a generic e-mail contact address?

As someone who's done public relations management professionally myself, all I can say is that you have a very different approach to this than I do, or than any of my favorite colleagues and mentors do.

Ice Cream, I gave you a name, also.

I don't believe they've lost credibility at all. They work with Baker and Taylor. They work with Ingram. They began with Lightning Source as their distributor, POD. In this short time, IPG has agreed to carry them. That's not losing credibility. That's building it.

The olives thing was funny. I think humor may be in order. Also, I'd be careful about what is written on the web. When you begin speaking the word vanity press, etc when it's not officially categorized as that, you may come to a place of libel. I am actually going to research that now because I need to keep myself clear. But I know some of you have heard of suits when less was said with some shreds of proof and the company still won.

I will be back with information on that.

Implied threats of libel suits are the point where I stop having a sense of humor. It's unecessary, hostile and misinformed. It normally occurs just before the final implossion and name checking the Third Reich.

I love olives.

- Victoria

As far as credibility, a vanity pub or self publishing operation has the same amount as say, Kinkos.

If they are up front about their service, and that they are providing a service, then I guess they have as much credibility as Kinkos copy center (or any other place that copies pages and can bind books