The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

keltora · Nov 3, 2005

Local PA Connections

My Sunday paper ran an article recently of "new authors" publishing for the first time. As I scanned the list, I found 8 small press publishers (2 are through a local university press, the rest are historical/nonfiction/small presses, some based in NYC), 8 self-published (including one that is a friend of mine who went this route after a terrible experience with a small press publisher--her book is local historical fiction and actually well-written, but the experience turned her into a nervous wreck, and in fact it was her husband who told her for the sake of the entire family to go ahead, finish her second book and he would start a small press just for her...) and 2 PublishAmerica victims.

Interestingly, both victims live in very tiny towns in the surrounding area.

Saddens me, that in spite of all my efforts to educate people locally to stay away from PublishAmerica, there are still people who are not learning the truth about this scammer until it is too late for them.

Small Town Writers PLEASE beware of this monster.

Peekay · Nov 3, 2005

Sheryl Nantus said:
oh, you poor boy... wait until you meet "Author Support" over at PA!

Unlike most authors I don't have that masochistic streak that so many of you relish.

Richard · Nov 3, 2005

Peekay said:
I've not seen so much protestant work ethic since th'pit closed down, ee, th'publishers know best, best t'tug the forelock when mister Random House goes by young 'un. They will never have to grind us down while we are oppressing each other FOR them. And to think creative types are rumoured to be work shy fops. Does me old heart good.

Excellent persecution complex you've got going there. RANDOM NOTE: Grinding down and offering support and professional advice are generally mutually exclusive.

DaveKuzminski · Nov 3, 2005

By the way, Peekay, the presence of a number in the title doesn't mean that there's another book in the series. Case in point, I recently published Mark II with Double Dragon Publishing. There is no Mark I. The number refers to something else and that's why it's in the title or did you think there were also books titled Catch 1 through Catch 21?

So, I'll ask again. How many copies did Salmagundi 1 sell?

Peekay · Nov 3, 2005

DaveKuzminski said:
You're the one who's posting here trying to convince everyone that your way is the right way and that the rest of the entire publishing industry doesn't know what it's doing and is prejudiced.

So, how well is Salmagundi ONE doing? Want to compare royalty statements with a very midlist ebook writer? After all, I wouldn't want to force you to compare yourself with one of those grand writers from one of the big houses.

I have no idea, I didn't imagine that S1 would make me my fortune, it wasn't, strange to relate, written as a job and with the Penguin books guide to sentence structure open on the deak before me.
I don't recalling saying my way was 'right', but then neither have I started a thread entitled 'Everyone that publishes with (Fill in name of choice) is an idiot'.

I do know that it sold a damn sight more copies than having the Gosh Almighty House of Recycling or whoever publish none whatsoever.

I have got a book out with PA and therefore happen to know that nothing of the kind lamented happened to me. Presumably I am unique in some way. There were no demanded qoutas of books to buy and no obligation to purchase anything.
I have no reason to invent those statements.

Peekay · Nov 3, 2005

DaveKuzminski said:
By the way, Peekay, the presence of a number in the title doesn't mean that there's another book in the series. Case in point, I recently published Mark II with Double Dragon Publishing. There is no Mark I. The number refers to something else and that's why it's in the title or did you think there were also books titled Catch 1 through Catch 21?

I don;t think you are concentrating.
How did you think I maaged to post a link to the book on Amazon if it was posted to PA this morning?
They don't work that fast.

So, I'll ask again. How many copies did Salmagundi 1 sell?

No idea, the roayalties, assuming there to be any, are paid yearly and Number one was published in JANUARY?

DaveKuzminski · Nov 3, 2005

Ah, Peekay, then you're merely an amateur apologist for PA.

Also, that's an inaccurate quote attributed to me. Fix it.

Also, your book is listed as published in November 2004. That's more than long enough for it to have generated a royalty statement. Want to try again? How many copies has it sold according to your royalty statement(s)?

Sparhawk · Nov 3, 2005

Peekay said:
I'm sorry, what response to my e-mail??? I didn't send them one! I sent the other company, LBF a nice mail teling them about my magnum opus. As yet no response. PA, who I mailed at the same time, have already responded.

Hi Peekay,

LBF is a small but reputable publisher. Beleive me when I tell you that Jacki Marchetti gets inundated with manuscripts. I sent mine to them in May and am still awaiting final word. They will correspond with you if you e-mail them and their submissions center is set up so that you can post diredctly with the person reviewing your particular body of work.

Good Luck : )

eqb · Nov 3, 2005

Peekay said:
You grand published authors are SO SWEET! Thank you so much. I've not seen so much protestant work ethic since th'pit closed down, ee, th'publishers know best, best t'tug the forelock when mister Random House goes by young 'un.

Sorry, but it's very hard to take your complaints seriously. Several experienced writers and publishers have posted how to approach commercial publishers, but you meet every piece of advice with "but that's not how I want to do it."

If you're happy with your vanity publisher, that's fine, but please don't pretend that you were driven to it.

For others who might be lurking, who actually want to get published by commerical publishers (large or small), here's how:

1. Write a damned good book.
2. Research agents to find out which ones are taking new clients (they're out there), and what their guidelines are.
3. Send out submission packages that follow those guidelines.
4. Be professional.
5. Keep writing.

JohnJStephens · Nov 3, 2005

Peekay said:
I have got a book out with PA and therefore happen to know that nothing of the kind lamented happened to me.

Peekay, it seems that you are British. Did you sign up with PA direct or with Publish Britannica/Atlantica?

MadScientistMatt · Nov 3, 2005

Peekay said:
Unlike most authors I don't have that masochistic streak that so many of you relish.

Is that an admission that you expect dealing with their Author Support to be a painful process?

astonwest · Nov 3, 2005

And back to PA...

So, if the PA employee over at Ed's forum is in fact really a PA employee, will Larry and Willy simply fire all their employees, hire up new ones and move on?

tab · Nov 3, 2005

astonwest said:
And back to PA...

So, if the PA employee over at Ed's forum is in fact really a PA employee, will Larry and Willy simply fire all their employees, hire up new ones and move on?

I'm suprised that they don't outsource the editing to India.

astonwest · Nov 3, 2005

tab said:
I'm suprised that they don't outsource the editing to India.

How could one tell if they did?

Dawno · Nov 3, 2005

Tab, Aston, if they outsourced it, it might actually improve. They can hire more editors for the same $ and the educational standards there are as good if not better in some cases. I'm not saying I 100% support outsourcing but I know a bit about it and I've seen cases where the overseas product was as good as, if not better, than what we were getting here.

tab · Nov 3, 2005

Dawno said:
Tab, Aston, if they outsourced it, it might actually improve. They can hire more editors for the same $ and the educational standards there are as good if not better in some cases. I'm not saying I 100% support outsourcing but I know a bit about it and I've seen cases where the overseas product was as good as, if not better, than what we were getting here.

I'm not so sure the quality would improve, but the stooges would certainly get more bang for their buck. PublishIndia!

Jean Marie · Nov 3, 2005

astonwest said:
How could one tell if they did?

In the front of the book where PA places their disclaimer-option 1, no editing. Yeah, like they edit in the first place

well, anyway, there's a camel stamp.

Christine N. · Nov 3, 2005

Peekay said:
I'm sorry, what response to my e-mail??? I didn't send them one! I sent the other company, LBF a nice mail teling them about my magnum opus. As yet no response. PA, who I mailed at the same time, have already responded.

Ah, then what you're suffering from is a lack of patience. PA already responded b/c you got your ms in before quota was met that day.

I think right now LBF is closed to subs until they catch up. (Thanks, Sparhawk, for the nice things you said, Jake would be so pleased).

Personally, having taken that one year stroll down the publishing path with LBF (the book goes to print this week!) I can honestly say I had a wonderful experience. E-mails answered promptly (and nary a 'tone' message among them) and so many other things.

My editing took two months. Back and forth, piece by piece. I had my very own illustrator, who did his work JUST for my book, and never to be used for any other.

Here's a BIG difference b/w LBF and PA - there's a publicity department (actually a firm) working to get my book stocked in real brick and mortar stores. They WANT to sell books, and not to me.

Here's another difference - I got Advance Reader Copies. They were sent to reviewers. I'm collecting reviews, from people I don't know. I've waited a little over a year since acceptance until release. LBF is so busy now, I know that time is extended by at least half.

They have my next book, have had it for three-four months. I also have partials with two different agents. Going on six weeks with one. I don't expect to hear back from her for at least another two. If (please) she asks for a full ms. read, I know it will be three months. Minimum.

Patience is a virtue, and being a (career) writer is a never ending exercise in patience.

Unless you go with PA, then you can have that thing whipped out in no time. It won't be ready for the public, more likely than not, but the public won't be able to find it anyway.

P.S. - When did you query LBF? If it was after Oct. 17, then your query was deleted, as they have been closed to ms subs since that time. They are so buried under subs and new books coming out that they need to catch up. So they decided to not look at anything new until they get what they've got off the desk. It's in big red letters on the online submission form.
If it was before that, then have some patience, it may take a few months, but they'll get back to you.

SC Harrison · Nov 3, 2005

postshy said:
I think I need to clarify my statements a bit. Not for one moment am I saying that we should not speak the truth here, or there. What I am saying is that, in spite of people who join the Boards, just to make trouble and not necessarily help the cause, their lies do nothing more than have the opposite effect. They may throw this forum off topic for a while, but it stimulates traffic as people start reading and posting cold, hard facts.

The same thing applies on Ed and Soot's forum. If someone is just aping a PA employee, then it is still serving the purpose because people jump on board to either agree or refute what they are saying - kind of like what "sock puppet" does sometimes.

However, I am not implying that lying should be condoned
by genuine posters. We know that it may be a tool used by the enemy, but we should not let them achieve their purpose. I am certainly not calling the regulars liars, or advocating that they should lie.

Did I clarify that, or muddy the water even more?

postshy/Roberta

Roberta, I understand everything you are saying, including your inference about those not helping the cause. I will also make a concerted effort to avoid dishonor and disingenuity whenever possible. This should be easy, since I really don't have an agenda anyway, but I'll try to watch out for these things. Let me close with a quote from the book of Steve:

And a voice cried out in the wilderness, saying "Lord, please give me the wisdom to discern the siren song of the False Prophets, for they are cunning; their music is sweet to my ears, and I would follow them unto the deeper parts of the Earth."

And the voice of the Lord thundered from the heavens, and it said, "We can't come to the phone right now, but if you leave a message, we'll get back to you as soon as possible."

Jean Marie · Nov 3, 2005

I have a pet peeve-besides the obvious. Seems I'm getting threatened again-jeez!! Some people just have too much time on their hands. Ah, well.

Anyhow, I've heard my talking about what dirty, rotten scoundrels the PA owners are is actually hurting the cause more than helping. <<scratches head>> And that many more have been hurt more than I have. Whatever.
Do ya think that's gonna stop me? No way!!!

It doesn't matter to try and measure who's been hurt more or less. The most important factor is that it does not happen to anyone else. That's the bottom line.

PublishAmerica=Criminals

James D. Macdonald · Nov 3, 2005

Hi again, Peekay:

Amazon(US) says your book came out in November '04. You and Amazon(UK) say it came out on 15 January '05. I'll go with that date. (The Amazon database does have errors.)

Since that time you should have received two statements, per Paragraph 12 in your contract, plus royalty checks if any books sold. One mailed in February (usually on the last day of the month to arrive in March) covering the period from 15 January to 31 January, and one mailed in August (usually on the last day of the month to arrive in September) to cover the period from 01 February to 31 July.

Are you saying that you didn't receive either of those statements?

Since your book came out you avoided at least three high-pressure attempts to get you to buy multiple copies of your own book. One was the one-time-only 50% off deal when the book was first printed (if I recall correctly you have two weeks to make the purchase). The other two were on 02 June '05, in conjunction with the release of Meiners' book:

You may now order your own copy of the PublishAmerica inside story, at the special pre-release discount price of $9.95 (retail price: $24.95), here: http://www.publishamerica.com/inside_story.

But there is more! To celebrate your successes, we are offering bookstores a special discount deal that we also extend to any individual who needs books on hand: This offer covers all of our titles except full-color picture books:

*between 25-50 books: 40 pct discount
*between 51-100 books: 45 pct discount + a copy of How to Upset a Goliath Book Biz for free!
*between 101-200 books: 50 pct discount + a copy of How to Upset a Goliath Book Biz for free!
*201 or more books: 55 pct discount + a copy of How to Upset a Goliath Book Biz for free!

The offer expires June 10.

and on 13 September '05 with the announcement of the "returns" program:

Please bear with us as we must do this gradually, in order to enable our wholesaler Ingram to accurately activate the new status on roughly eleven thousand books that are currently in print, starting with the titles that are selling more than 40 copies in September (libraries and individuals who order more than 40 copies this month are receiving a 40 pct discount; phone orders only at 301 695 1707).
Also, there will be a few exceptions initially, such as full-color picture books, and for the time being this revolutionary experiment will be limited to U.S. bookstores only. We will review the results after a few months and see what, if any, adjustments must be made.

Didn't you receive those letters? If not, I'd really check my email program and any spam filters that might be in place if I were you. You may not be getting all your mail.

You already noted the attempt to sell you the marketing book.

You've done well to avoid making those purchases. Not that PA cares whether any particular one of their titles sells or not: To make up for your not ordering any, someone else, somewhere, ordered 150 copies. The average holds. PA is playing the odds.

LloydBrown · Nov 3, 2005

Peekay said:
I suppose I'd better repeat yet again that I have not had a penny piece pried out of me by the great Satan, they tried to sell me a marketing book which I ignored and I have never

So let ask just to be perfectly clear here: you have not bought any of your own books, correct?

Canada James · Nov 3, 2005

Peekay said:
I cannot quite understand this implied belief that traditional publishers are just gasping to embrace new talent nurture them and pay them!
When does that ever happen?

It happened to me. (And it's happening again next year, and the year after that...)

C. James

Canada James · Nov 3, 2005

Peekay said:
I am not a proffessional apologist for PA!
I am sure that PA Lulu are indeed taking advantage of the misery and despair of writers, BUT WHO IS CREATING THAT MISERY AND DESPAIR???

PA is.

(That one was easy enough.)

C. James

DeePower · Nov 3, 2005

peekay get lost

I have no patience for you, unlike others on this board.

You are intentionally being a distraction.

Did anyone notice the replies from PA I posted in response to an honest question from a Pa author regarding returnability?

What if, and I am not saying or implying it is what PA is doing, but what if, after all we are all writers with rather vivid imaginations, what if, there isn't any return policy in the works.

What happens?

Dee

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

13th Triskaidekaphobe

Preditors & Editors

Preditors & Editors

Jenna's Cabana Boy

I write novels

Empirical Storm Trooper

2 WIP? A glutton for punishment

Dipsomaniac on the floor!

2 WIP? A glutton for punishment

Shiny!

Dipsomaniac on the floor!

calm waters ahead

haz a shiny new book cover

Dances With Hamsters

calm waters ahead

Your Genial Uncle

Take off!

Take off!

DeePower