Sunbury Press

triceretops said:

Ha, ha. Just a peaceful browser, here. No gutting. And no vamps either.

tri

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*shakes fist* you have a problem with vampires!

Seriously though, Lawrence, I'm a bit curious about your comment re: more books are sold online than in bricks & mortar stores. Care to expand on that. I sincerely believe that a small press can, when savvy, do well by their authors without in-store distribution, but it seems clear that even now, 70% of books are sold in stores.

Ha, I have no vamps because I don't know how to write them well, or give them a unique enough storyline. I tried a werewolf tale and a seriously goofed it.

But, yeah, B&M stores still dominate book sales. Online sales, is woefully behind IMO.

SunburyPress said:

Regarding Lightning Source / LSI / Ingram et al, we do not have an agreement with them so I am interested how we can be shown as using them as a distributor. I should know - I sign all of the agreements!

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Funnily enough, I went over to Bookscan to get a screen cap showing that LSI showed up as your distributor, and poOf! It's been changed to show your company as the distributor.

Regarding your critique of our distribution model, your frame of mind is completely embedded in the age-old "push" model used by traditional publishers. I completely agree with you that we do not follow that model - nor can small presses afford to on any scale.

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I do believe I've just been called a dinosaur. That's ok...being a dinosaur works for us - even though I am a small trade press. If doing something different works for you, great. I just can't seem to find it.

Now that more books are sold via eCommerce vs. brick and mortar stores, the game is changing.

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I have found that it depends on the genre as to how well e-books sell. We've noticed that nonfiction readers mostly prefer bound books to e-books.

it is perfectly OK for a small press to serve a regional target market as part of its growth strategy.

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I couldn't agree more. I know of many good small trade presses who specialize in regional titles. This wasn't a point of disagreement.

Regarding what kind of marketing and promotion do we do for our authors - the answer is virtually none! We invest in marketing and promoting our BOOKS and their associated CONTENT. The author comes along for the ride...

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Please, let's not split hairs. It's the author who expects their titles to be marketed and promoted. Could you please share what those investments are?

I have no problem with any publisher who has the ability to sell lots of books/e-books, regardless of publishing model, because the author wins. But I still can't scratch my head that your big seller isn't a single blip on Bookscan's radar. It simply flies in the face of how the industry normally works. But whatever. Good luck to you.

swhibs123 said:

Seriously though, Lawrence, I'm a bit curious about your comment re: more books are sold online than in bricks & mortar stores.

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So am I, since it contradicts everything I've read--for instance, this article about recently-released publishing statistics. Of 2.6 billion unit sales in 2010, 276 million were sold online.

- Victoria

lweinberg18 said:

Hi, Priceless, I digress, but am curious about Bookscan—so publishers put up their own info? Or by those who run it?

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Publishers don't have access to Bookscan. Bookscan is owned by the Nielsen Company. They provide sales data for the book industry by collecting sales data from bookstores.

The reason it's not reliable is because not every bookstore reports their sales to Bookscan. But it is representative. As I've explained before, let's say a publisher pitches a particular book to the indies in their area and it sells well. Word gets around because this is a small industry. So others see a title selling and order copies for their stores. Eventually, the data from those sales will be reported to Bookscan from the participating bookstores.

As I said, it's not reliable. Instead of a book selling 25,000 units, maybe it's sold more like 30,000 units. But it shows that the title sold well. Conversely, if someone sees a total of 24 units being sold and the title has been out for two years, then the logical deduction is that the book wasn't widely distributed or promoted.

So if you have a manuscript you're trying to sell and you have a previously published book, agents and editors will check Bookscan to see what kind of movement it had, and judge accordingly.

priceless1 said:

The reason it's not reliable is because not every bookstore reports their sales to Bookscan..

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Nor do the big box retailers like Walmart and Costco.

- Victoria

So, what's the story. Are these guys legit or should a newbie stay clear of them?

Nat

Here's part of their "book proposal form". Sure sent me back to the 'marketing and management' classes we had back in high-school.


Title/Subtitle

Author

Proposed Genre

Sales Handle
[In one or two sentences give the “elevator pitch.” What makes this book unique and marketable?]

About the Book
[In one or two paragraphs, describe the book in slightly greater detail and explain how it solves a problem for the reader.]

Features
[In four or five bullets, describe the most important features of the book, especially any that set it apart from the competition]


Market / Audience
[Zero in on the specific market the book targets, give numbers if possible, and describe how that market can best be reached.]


Assess the relative strengths and weakness of your proposed title in different formats

1. Traditional Print as stocked in bookstores
2. P.O.D. (print on demand)
3. E-Book
4. Other proposed format

Do you envision your proposed book as Hardcover / Paperback / Either / or Other (i.e. Digital)


Benefit to the Customer
[Here you list the main benefits the reader will take away from this book.]
·

The is the oddest "book proposal" I have ever seen.

That book proposal concerns me.

Those questions, for the most part, should be what the publisher tells the author, not the other way around.

The publisher is supposed to know the market. They should be able to look at a proposal or a pitch and know what the relative strengths and weaknesses of a book are and what media would be the strongest for promoting the book.

The writer is approaching the publisher because the publisher is supposed to be the "professional" and speaking from a position of strength - they work in the "marketplace" daily, while the author is busy writing their books while probably holding down a day job. The author is not going to know the market better than a full-time publisher.

If they do, and if they have to do all this work before they give it to a publisher, they'd probably be better doing the next step and publishing it themselves. If they're telling the publisher how to do their job, what is the publisher doing to earn their share of the sales?

That or find a more competent publisher.

Agree with the above.

OK that proposal is just backwards and wrong. You fill out all this stuff about marketing then they want the outline and sample chapters? It seems like such a waste of time for both parties. Writers are not market researchers. Why would you even trust what authors wrote in that section anyway? I mean some people might be in marketing for a day job but there's no way of knowing that through this form.

Sunbury Press is "not recommended" on Preditors and Editors.

Last I heard, they take up to a year to respond to submissions, although they respond to queries quickly. They also will accept professional illustrations if they are really good. I personally know of no one who has published with them, and I haven't looked at the website in a long time.

aliceshortcake said:

Sunbury Press is "not recommended" on Preditors and Editors.

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While I never like to speak ill of anyone, I did not have the best experience with Sunbury and I think that came down to my lack of knowledge of the industry at the time. After doing some research and emailing some of their authors who gave good reviews, I submitted my HF to Sunbury in late 2011. Sunbury got back to me after reading only 3 chapters and offered me a contract. Looking back now I think that was a big mistake on my part. I was offered 6 other contracts for my HF but thought Sunbury was the best for me.

I read the contract, and it seemed legit to me and sent it back happily. I emailed them the full, and things started rolling in Feb 2012. I was told it will be a few months until an editor got to my book so I waited. In June 2012, I finally heard from the editor (who was extremely patient with me) who read the novel (but I think only the first 100 pages) and offered a lot of changes before she could edit it professionally. I didn't understand why they accepted my novel in the 1st place if they didn't like that they read. That's why I objected to the changes, and told her I will implement some of them because I believed the changes she suggested wouldn't suit the novel.

She gave me 3 months to do the changes and send it back to her. I did them in 9 days - a lot of hard work I tell ya!
I sent the amended MS to the editor and she said there are a few books ahead of me so I was put in the queue. Months came and went. Every 2/4 weeks I sent a polite email asking my novel's progress (I know it sounds impatient but we have all done it) She said I have 2 books ahead (this was the same answer for months) and I will be next. By the time my wedding in August came and went, with no news, I went on my honeymoon pretty annoyed and impatient. On my return, and after much thought I decided to annul the contract. It stated that if the book had not been published within 6 months of contract being signed, the rights reverted back to me. It was the hardest thing for me to do to email the owner and tell him how disappointed and frustrated I was over the process. I am not the confrontational type so this was a big thing for me. I was just so over it that I think I snapped inside.

He apologized for what I went through and the next day I received an email from his wife (business partner) that the rights to my novel are all mine.
The HF novel in question has found a new home (with a press who initially offered a contract for it way back when)and I am happy with them. As you can imagine I am extremely weary of some press's practices and where my novel/s find a home now.
Now, I am not sure whether it was my impatience or Sunbury's practices that got me to that stage but I am glad I made the move. I kept asking myself why is my book being getting pushed back all the time. Is it that bad? The owner said he was sorry I wasn't happy and offered me to send anything else to him to read. I politely declined and moved on.

kelliewallace said:

Sunbury got back to me after reading only 3 chapters and offered me a contract. Looking back now I think that was a big mistake on my part.

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This is one of those red flags that a lot of people new to publishing miss, but it's a massive one.

I emailed them the full, and things started rolling in Feb 2012.... By the time my wedding in August came and went, with no news, I went on my honeymoon pretty annoyed and impatient.... It stated that if the book had not been published within 6 months of contract being signed, the rights reverted back to me.

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Publication within six months of being signed is really quick, and the fact Sunbury wasn't even halfway done with editing by that point shows how much they underestimated the process. It's important to have some kind of timeframe in the contract for precisely this reason. I'm really glad for you that you withdrew your book and had it published elsewhere.

Publishers that run on a shoestring and limited staff can be expected to miss deadlines and not have proper editing in place. It's not a business, it's a hobby.

tri

Responding to the prior comment, our business is not a hobby! We take it very seriously. We have over 100 authors and 200 books under contract. We generally run a very efficient operation. Just to be fair here, Kellie had an editor assigned to her book on May 11. After working with it for several weeks, the editor decided significant revisions to the manuscript were required. This was communicated to Kellie on 6/29. Kellie went to work straight away on this and provided a revised manuscript about two weeks later, but was now in the back of the editor's queue. Kellie's wedding and month long honeymoon then hit around that time, so we suspended working on the manuscript for awhile. When she returned, she had the option to continue or withdraw, since our six month promised timeframe had past. She is the only author out of over 100 who have found themselves in this situation at Sunbury.

SunburyPress said:

Kellie's wedding and month long honeymoon then hit around that time, so we suspended working on the manuscript for awhile.

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If you don't mind, may I ask how what she did in her personal life affected what your company chose to do in its professional life? I'm not sure I see a direct correlation.

I'd also like to know the answer to that question.

Simple -- our editors work collaboratively with their authors. When authors are not available, the editors can only take things so far -- especially when revisions are necessary.

SunburyPress said:

Kellie had an editor assigned to her book on May 11. After working with it for several weeks, the editor decided significant revisions to the manuscript were required.

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Perhaps if the entire manuscript had been read before a contract was offered, the editor would have been more prepared.

@Saanen - normally, that is the process.

Just wanted to update this thread: Sunbury Press now charges for submissions. It's not much, but still:

Our apologies for charging a modest fee for your submission. We are no longer able to offer unlimited submissions at no cost because our provider has now set a limit. In order to remain open 24/7/365 for submissions, we must charge you. If you are so inclined to purchase a book from our online store, please use coupon code SUBMITTABLE to receive free shipping on your order.

There are two imprints that a haunted house story would fit into, but the submission guidelines for each imprint are written the same.

Edited for clarity.