The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Actually, Dave, that is a great point...

...what other publisher on the face of God's green earth sends out people to disparage other writers and publishing professionals? It says alot about their mindset, and how they deal with people who ask honest questions about their business practices. PA appears to be hurting, if anything, now is the time to really put the heat to them. I, for one, totally support what you are doing.

A view from the Kiddie Pool....

"It appears that I have wondered into the "Kiddie Pool", where there are only shallow area's.

I was looking for "Adult Swim"!

Maybe you should seek out "Adult Spell."

Re: CSI refuses to answer the questions

American Psychological Association (APA). You know, the large blue covered book, with white lettering, which arrives every month.


Psychology, CSI2005? Hmmmm. Who do we know at PA with a background in Psychology?

Re: CSI

Dave -

Once again you are missing my point. The fact is that to outsiders a lot of this does come across as whining and pettiness - whether it is or not is not the issue, perception is what matters here. I'm sure people reading the PW board are rolling their eyes at what it deteriorated into. With the exception of Jenna, Victoria's Rebecca's, Dee's and a few others - it sounds like a schoolyard fight not an intelligent discussion. The writers have played right into Carl's hands by fighting with him at every turn. When things get to that point - NEITHER SIDE is taken seriously. Fighting fire with fire in this case - does not help your cause. Everyone sounds like a baby - so other people are more likely to dismiss it as much ado about nothing, even if it is about something.

You in particular should be taking the high road. Your main audience is in fact outsiders. People who know nothing about PA. You as an advocate are far better off dealing with facts and using reason rather than this tit for tat petty bs. There's plenty of victims to give the emotional side. But if all outsiders see is the emotional stuff - I think you do turn it into a he said /she said - and people may be MORE apt to believe PA, not less, because so much of the emotional stuff is not grounded in any type of reason whatsoever and some of it is turning mountains into molehills. And before you or anyone else attacks me on that sentence - let me say that there ARE real issues here, the problem is they get buried in the parsing every PA missive crap or speculating on how long it will take for a post to be removed from a PA board.

This suppport network, on some levels exists in a bubble. No one inside of the bubble can see how you are coming across to those outside. It is your expressed intention to prevent others from becoming victims. But you don't bother to think about how others perceive you. HOW you are communicating hurts your ability to get across WHAT you are communicating.

I am not expecting the victims to agree with what I'm saying, they are still caught up in their anger and pain. But YOU Dave are not a PA victim. You are a professional and you should act as such.

So Sayeth Simon

Re: A view from the Kiddie Pool....

Do you think maybe trolling these boards is a prerequisite for becoming an intern at PublishAmerica? You know to get them in the mindset of those wonderful "Don't take that tone with me" letters?:rollin
This CSI guy is the one that's boring. I'll be glad when he takes his toys and goes home.
Sara

Re: CSI

SimonSays, the road you're suggesting we take is what was in use for almost four years without any results other than hundreds of more victims. Since I've taken a hard response, including what you perceive as a low road, I've received twice as many emails in the past year than from the previous four years together from writers thanking me for making them aware of what PA is so that they could avoid being victimized.

I'll gladly take the low road for those writers if it helps more of them survive being taken by PA. I want writers to point to the intense discussion taking place here just so new writers will hear about it and flock over here to learn just how nefarious PA is in its dealings. And if PA wants to help my cause by sending over their trolls, then they're not nearly as smart as I gave them credit for being.

A Good Laugh!

Hey, ya’ll! I was thinking that maybe everybody could use a good old-fashioned laugh.<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif" />


<hr />
Dear Mr. Johnson….

WHACK!

…Okay! Now that you’ve felt the wide end of my hand-made, Siberian office broom on the top of your skull, you’ll no longer address us in such a tone.

After our offices were flooded out due to the hurricanes—causing the termites and rats to start floating around as a result—we figured you as the culprit. Had you not prayed those storms our way, we believe none of this would’ve happened. But no, you had to go and be like Jeremiah from the Old Testament, who prayed destruction on his enemies, then sat back and watched as God carried out the request. This is appalling Mr. Johnson! How dare you!

Therefore, in the absence of any reasons, your contract termination request must be denied, and your contract remains fully in place. However, if you’re willing to ask God to remove a plague of sores that He’s so graciously bestowed upon our bodies, then, we may very well consider releasing you from your contract after discussing it at our next review meeting, which will be held at our leisure.

WHACK!

Thank You!
Erica “The Doppelganger” Clobberpots
Author Support Team
www.rubbishamerica.com
<hr />

Oh, yeah, right

The latest lie that PA is making to its authors is that if they sell well enough in their area, then PA will take the book nationwide.

Re: CSI

Dave -

I guess you and I just have a different concept of what qualifies as an intense discussion. Asking a troll for medical qualifications that he obviously does not have as his post was just as obviously an immature (and not very impressive) dis - is not to my mind an intense discussion. (Ed. note to CSI - dude you really need to work on your insults and hone your sarcasm skills - as it stands now you have none). You cannot expect me to believe for one moment that you truly believe that someone would read this thread and believe that CSI was making an actual diagnosis! Even an 8 year old would pick up on the fact that he was just taunting you.

And speaking of 8 year olds, the level of dialogue on this board where what you perceive as pro-pa'ers are concerned, are similar to fights your average 8 year olds have on a playground when both want the same swing.

Being aggressive and being immature are not the same things. Taunting a troll instead of merely pointing out his trollishness and leaving well enough alone is how a professional should approach such matters. You give Willem and Co. much ammunition to use in their attempts to smear your reputation. If they cut and paste some of your petty and childish responses the same way their missives are cut and pasted here - you would come off looking like some sort of big baby nutty fanatic.

What the last few months should have proven to everyone on this board is that whining and moaning are not productive. This board has been around for over a year and nothing whatsoever happened until Rebecca, Dee and Jenna actually did something and tried to get others to do more than whine. You on the other hand encourage this childish and unproductive behavior by engaging in it yourself.

You can be vocal and passionate and still behave like an adult.

Dave, Jim, Hapisoft, Victoria, Ann it's all your fault

And others like you deserve responsibility and thanks. If you hadn't posted to these boards, I would have thought I was alone with PublishAmerica. One of their manipulations is to segregate the authors who question them and then to denigrate them. But because of your postings, your focus, your perseverance, and your determination to show writers the truth about Publish America and their actual business model of vanity/subsidy publishing. I believed that I could make a small difference.

There is a leak in the PA dam of deceptions.

Dee

Re: Well.......

one of the problems is that everyone wants to think that *he/she* will be THE ONE who does the impossible - get their book into bookstores; achieve that magical 500 sale for Independence Label consideration, etc. - and, to be fair, the rest of the PA authors help feed this impossible goal by telling each other how good they are; how their book is The Next Big Thing and how Bad Traditional Publishers are - if I see another post lambasting Random House, I'll scream. If I were working for RH, I'd consider a lawsuit for the number of times that they've been mentioned as The Bad Guy. I guess Meiners and Co. have a beef with them.

and, when you fail, your posts are wiped off the board and you disappear ala 1984; with no one answering your questions and no one mentioning your name - when Molly Brent asked the tough questions and was doing everything "right" according to the PA pundits, everyone turned their backs and ignored her, hoping the Logo would delete her posts and relegate her to the darkness with the other "failed" PA authors - even though she was doing everything that was recommended and prattled on about.

it's a vicious cycle and it's good to see some bucking the trend and breaking free without being muzzled by the Logo nor the rest of the PAvidians who delete their "friends" from their mailing lists without a second thought as soon as they start questioning the system. Very Orwellian.

eventually it will collapse, like a bad pyramid scheme.

Typical PA Trolls

It's been my experience that PA trolls NEVER answer questions addressed to them. These guys are typical. They sure didn't answer my question.

-Ann C. Crispin
Writer Beware

Re: Well....

FM -

I'm sure that Random House, will not be initiating a lawsuit anytime soon.

In fact, I'm sure they would do a little jig if they knew what the PA boards were saying about them (not they they know or would care, why would they?) But the more PA "authors" who see them as the enemy, the less poorly written unsolicited slush in their pile.

Re: Well....

Concerning that, I have to agree with you that it's quite possible that some folks may see it that way.

What surprises me is not the fact that PA and the like happened, but that those became established so quickly after print-on-demand came into actual being.

As to Random House, I've heard that dear ol' Willem was rejected by them when he sought to get his first book published, so they've been a prime target in PA's logo speeches.

Re: Dave, Jim, Hapisoft, Victoria, Ann it's all your fault

Thanks, Dee. Occasional reassurance that it's helping is all I need.

Dave, Simon, ProandCon -- mind if I suggest that y'all should try not to get into wrangles with each other? Friendly fire isn't. Dave Kuzminski's control of tone may be shaky, but he's been one of the good guys for a long time. You don't have to love each other; just remember that when you get right down to it, we're on the same side.

CSI: who cares?

Why is anyone even bothering with CSI? We (and anyone perusing this thread) know what he's doing, and he isn't worth getting worked up about.

I don't see any need to address a post to him, no matter what he says.

A Life Saved!

Rebecca, Ed, James, Dee, Victoria, Ann, Dave, and everyone involved:

A writer recently replied to me after reading a private e-mail that I sent them and basically said that because of all the warnings that were given at Publishers Weekly and Absolute Write, they will not be signing with PA.

It feels good to know that just one more person was saved the heartache of joining with this “beast.” It’s well worth the effort that’s been made, and I for one am glad that I took the time to help out.

Nevertheless, I imagine there'll be more to do before we finally see the end.

Re: A Life Saved!

w00t!

and, folks - that's what it's all about.

some of us may have gotten trapped in the tarpit, but there are some who are seeing the signs and staying clear of PublishAmerica...

Taking action and starving trolls

First, let us not feed the trolls. Eventually, they will find another bridge to live under.
Second, there are many authors who have claimed inaccurate royalty statements. I have even heard that PA has refused to produce the books (which an author has a right to see according to PA's contract). What if everyone with a royalty beef shows up at PA on the same day (after sending in seven days notice)? That would be quite a media opportunity! I wonder if they will open the doors?

Re: Taking action and starving trolls

Might be even better if you designated a reporter to view the books as your representative. Then if PA refused, there'd be another interesting story for the press.

Re: Taking action and starving trolls

Dave, I love that idea. I wonder if there is a reporter out there with some level of expertise in forensic accounting?

Taking action

Keep in mind that you might have to initiate a limited power of attorney executable only for the one purpose of representing you in a review of the publisher's books.

By the way, this idea could be used to keep other publishers, such as American Book Publishing Group honest, too.

Just remember that you need a lawyer's advice and assistance to properly set this up.

Re: A Life Saved!

>>A writer recently replied to me after reading a private e-mail that I sent them and basically said that because of all the warnings that were given at Publishers Weekly and Absolute Write, they will not be signing with PA.<<

That's what it's all about. Thanks for posting this, Tim!

- Victoria

Re: A Life Saved!

That's what it's all about.

Click to expand...

I wish this thread had been up when I signed with PA. I signed for my first book and before my book was released I finished my second. I was so sure PA was going to do everything they promised I signed for my second book. I received the proofs for the second book last week and was absolutely amazed to find 72 pages of nothing but spacing errors! It looks absolutely ridiculous. They have chosen random lines all through the book and added extra spaces after each word in the line. This does not include all the errors their "editing staff" felt it necessary to include. I was appalled to say the least. So much for those 20 - 25 - 30 - or was it 32 editors they have working full time.

I know no one will ever see this book because the price will be so high it will be cost prohibitive - no bookstore will ever stock the book because of PA's being a POD publisher and having a no return policy - and I do not intend to do any promotion whatsoever. However, it is my work and I'd like it to at least look decent.

>:

Re: A Life Saved!

Thanks, Victoria:

I just hope people continue to see the warnings in advance. If this keeps occurring, then maybe enough will turn away, causing PA to further its already inevitable demise…thank the Lord.

<hr />
Lindylou,

I really hate that you’ve had to experience PA’s sting.

You know, though, I was thinking of how nice it would be if everyone were able to reclaim his or her rights from PublishAmerica. Maybe that’s all it would take for them to finally crumble. It would seem so, anyway. Especially when they like to sell an author’s work without permission.