The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

T42 · Mar 31, 2005

Sparhawk said:
You make a valid point!

I can possibly see HB mocking himself along with his intended victims. It does tend to deflect blame (See... I'm a victim too). Man, that's just so sinister if it's true.

The sad thing is everything that PA and HB do is sinister! They see themselves as victims of bashers so they don't mind putting themselves in the victim role to make it even more believable.

Richard · Mar 31, 2005

The point is that IF all of the conditions are met (agreement, performance, and transparency about what is being provided, how, and when), then what some deem a vanity publisher because it derives its income from its authors is an entirely legitimate form of business.

I don't remember seeing many people complaining about self-publishing or POD per se, if people are going into it with their eyes open and it genuinely is the best option for what they're trying to sell.

T42 · Mar 31, 2005

DeadlyAccurate said:
I disagree. Just because you, and I, and 99% of the people here wouldn't do so doesn't mean someone else wouldn't.

Ok, no brownies for you then :wag:

Just kidding! Well, you could be right but in this situation I hope I am right

victoriastrauss · Mar 31, 2005

robeiae said:
Actually, it's even weirder:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AF5BEX29E2CPO/ref=cm_cr_auth/104-2196391-5750352?%5Fencoding=UTF8

This gives you all the reviews by this "person."

That's f****d up. I am seriously hoping these "reviews" don't come from someone here, though given the Shemp reference, I wonder.

Whoever is doing this, stop it--you're not funny.

- Victoria

victoriastrauss · Mar 31, 2005

NicoleJLeBoeuf said:
Victoria, I'd be last to butt heads with you, but I fear your post unfairly conflates "vanity publisher" with "scammer". I don't know if you meant it to. I've quoted the part of your post that gave me that impression, and bolded the bit where the impression is strongest.

Fair enough, Nicole! What I meant was "dishonest vanities". I should have been more precise. I've edited my original post to make it so.

- Victoria

NicoleJLeBoeuf · Mar 31, 2005

victoriastrauss said:
Fair enough, Nicole! What I meant was "dishonest vanities". I should have been more precise. I've edited my original post to make it so.

Thanks to you and UJ for the clarification! I feel better now.

victoriastrauss · Mar 31, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
If I were going to guess, I'd guess that the Amazon Slammer/Guestbook Slimer was someone associated with PA. (There may not only be one Slammer/Slimer, BTW.)

That's my guess, too. I'm positive that at least some of them are Curlem himself.

- Victoria

Dawno · Mar 31, 2005

victoriastrauss said:
That's f****d up. I am seriously hoping these "reviews" don't come from someone here, though given the Shemp reference, I wonder.

Whoever is doing this, stop it--you're not funny.

- Victoria

Some of my favorite authors are in the 8 that are getting these very strange 'reviews'. I doubt if it will make a bit of difference to their sales but it bothers me anyway. If enough people reported these as 'inappropriate' wouldn't that bring it to Amazon's attention to take these down?

T42 · Mar 31, 2005

victoriastrauss said:
That's f****d up. I am seriously hoping these "reviews" don't come from someone here, though given the Shemp reference, I wonder.

Whoever is doing this, stop it--you're not funny.

- Victoria

Where is the DANG soap when we need it? :ROFL:

Victoria we have lots of lurkers here and most likely the "sicko" himself so I don't think anyone here did it. I think they are just stealing our language to make it look like it is someone from here. If it is...then shame on them!

Ed Williams · Mar 31, 2005

The thing is...

T42 said:
The sad thing is everything that PA and HB do is sinister! They see themselves as victims of bashers so they don't mind putting themselves in the victim role to make it even more believable.

...being victims is much easier than getting off your butt and accomplishing something. I would say even more, but I'm itchin' for an ICEE, let me go make a quick run...

P.S. Needless to say, it's noon EST and yet no retraction from PA on the terrible scam that was perpetrated on their authors last weekend, wonder why?

Patricia · Mar 31, 2005

Ed Williams said:
4. For those of you who haven't seen it yet, the email referenced yesterday from Shemp explaining his "demise" has been posted up on the "Death" thread on the "Take It Outside Boards." I don't know how long Jenna's gonna leave it up, but y'all might want to take a look while you can, if anyone here is versed in psychology it will prove to be an interesting read....

"Shemp = Scams"

Ed, did you or someone else get confirmation from a trusted source that the letter is authentic?

Moondancer · Mar 31, 2005

Ed Williams P.S. [color=darkorchid said:
Needless to say, it's noon EST and yet no retraction from PA on the terrible scam that was perpetrated on their authors last weekend, wonder why?[/color]

They'll wait until tomorrow so it won't really mean anything.

T42 · Mar 31, 2005

Dawno said:
Some of my favorite authors are in the 8 that are getting these very strange 'reviews'. I doubt if it will make a bit of difference to their sales but it bothers me anyway. If enough people reported these as 'inappropriate' wouldn't that bring it to Amazon's attention to take these down?

Dawno, I tried to give you a brownie because I think that is a very good suggestion but "they" said I have given out too many today so know that you will get one tomorrow

victoriastrauss · Mar 31, 2005

ResearchGuy said:
The point is that IF all of the conditions are met (agreement, performance, and transparency about what is being provided, how, and when), then what some deem a vanity publisher because it derives its income from its authors is an entirely legitimate form of business.

I agree with you, Ken. In many circumstances, a straightforward vanity-type publisher is a totally viable option.

My proposed vanity publisher definition was meant not to denigrate honest vanities, but to demonstrate how certain publishers that deny they're vanities fit the vanity model.

- Victoria

T42 · Mar 31, 2005

Ed Williams said:
...being victims is much easier than getting off your butt and accomplishing something. I would say even more, but I'm itchin' for an ICEE, let me go make a quick run...

P.S. Needless to say, it's noon EST and yet no retraction from PA on the terrible scam that was perpetrated on their authors last weekend, wonder why?

Need someone to scratch that itch Ed? :roll:

Mr Underhill · Mar 31, 2005

Re: Sending money to publishers

Galoot said:
Why would I ever send any money to a non-vanity publisher?

Almost exclusively to acquire more copies of your own book. To extend what The Navigator said: once your ms has been submitted and accepted, and has been professionally edited by the publisher, copy-edited and formatted and sent to press by the publisher, and promotional and review copies have been sent out by the publisher, and salespeople paid by the publisher (or at least a consortium of small publishers) are getting your baby onto bookstore shelves; about that time you will receive a certain number of comp copies of your finished work, a number probably specified in your contract (it could be zero). You may want more that that number, so that you can hand it out at your next family reunion, or send it to your former co-workers signed "Read It and Weep, Suck-ahz!" In any event you will be expected to pay the author price. If sales are brisk enough that you are accumulating royalties above your advance amount, they may deduct it from your royalty check. Otherwise you will have to pay.

As to whether small presses sometimes make money from their authors, I think it would be a rare case indeed where legitimate publishers made an actual profit from author sales. For titles with lower than break-even sales, it might be a substantial fraction of revenue, but that would simply be a consolation for disappointing numbers. There are exceptions to this, such as class/training materials where the "author" is the entity that will also comprise the primary market, but that's a special case.

Oh, and if you fail to perform on your contract for some reason, you may be obliged to return all or part of your advance. Especially if you have defected to another publisher.

Patricia · Mar 31, 2005

Alphabeter said:
Its a good way to drive up your post count!

That never occured to me! Is that a good or bad thing?

BeeBomb · Mar 31, 2005

T42 said:
Where is the DANG soap when we need it? Victoria we have lots of lurkers here and most likely the "sicko" himself so I don't think anyone here did it. I think they are just stealing our language to make it look like it is someone from here. If it is...then shame on them!

Soap...you need a shovel to grapple the excrement! Anyone who goes to any board can pick up a word or two and display it wherever they want. The SICKO would eat sheepshower for breakfast and poop out ewes for supper and blame it on the ram for sticking it up his rear. The SICKO iwho delights on doing it thrives on the attention and doesn't care diddlysquat about anyone but himself/herself. :Jaw:

Gag me with a spoon! A pox on the Sicko.

Alphabeter · Mar 31, 2005

KellyS. said:
So, if PA started in '99, then no one has completely gotten through a contract with them yet. Do you think they thought they would be around to see the very first contract expire? I wonder who the very first author (not meiners or clopper) was and if they have managed to get out or are still with them.

The early contracts were lifetime. They didn't start changing to the seven-year plan until late 2001 (if I'm not mistaken-Victoria, Dave?)?

writerjenn · Mar 31, 2005

Ed Williams said:
...I'm itchin' ...., let me go make a quick run...

You know Ed, there's creams available for that!

Jenn

T42 · Mar 31, 2005

BeeBomb said:
Soap...you need a shovel to grapple the excrement! Anyone who goes to any board can pick up a word or two and display it wherever they want. The SICKO would eat sheepshower for breakfast and poop out ewes for supper and blame it on the ram for sticking it up his rear. The SICKO iwho delights on doing it thrives on the attention and doesn't care diddlysquat about anyone but himself/herself. Gag me with a spoon! A pox on the Sicko.

Bee I was referring to Victorias mouth for the soap... :ROFL:

but yes I do agree that we need a shovel for the others :roll:

After we use the soap on Victoria she can wash mine out too because I say Encore!

victoriastrauss · Mar 31, 2005

Alphabeter said:
The early contracts were lifetime. They didn't start changing to the seven-year plan until late 2001 (if I'm not mistaken-Victoria, Dave?)?

Sometime around then, yeah.

Copyright law makes it possible for creators to terminate grants of rights after 35 years, no matter what. This provision was recently used by Joe Simon, creator of the Captain America comic character, to get the rights to the character back from Marvel.

What are the odds PA will be in business three decades from now, though?

- Victoria

Alphabeter · Mar 31, 2005

There sure are a lotta gals wanting to help you soothe your itch Ed.

I'd be jealous if I didn't know what the ***** *** meant.

Alphabeter · Mar 31, 2005

All of the noted Amazon reviews have been removed.

Christine N. · Mar 31, 2005

Man,

It's getting ugly over on the "books that accept self-pubbed authors" thread. Jean Marie is like a rabid bulldog. She's outed Sparhawk.

Craziness going on over there.

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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