Agent v. Agentless

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ChaosTitan

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Since I am agented and insanely happy with my agent, I don't have much to add to the OP's questions. But I did want to address this:

Many agents hesitate if you have no writing creditionals at all!

Um, not really. Almost every writer friend of mine who's signed with an agent did so with zero writing credits, myself included. If you knock their socks off with the query and manuscript, an agent won't care if you've published one book or eighteen.

And it's important to note that not all credentials are created equal.
 

Xelebes

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Do you have evidence to back this up?

Sonia Land publishing Cookson's backlist is not disreputable. Curtis Brown's Creative Writing School is not disreputable. There is certainly a conflict of interest, but definitely not disreputable.

He didn't say all agents or upcoming agents are disreputable but that there has been a shakeup in the world of books that is letting in the crooks to set up shop.
 

Nick Blaze

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He didn't say all agents or upcoming agents are disreputable but that there has been a shakeup in the world of books that is letting in the crooks to set up shop.
I swear more and more scam "agents" pop up double-fold every day.
 

Mr Flibble

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I don't have an agent.

For what I mostly write, I'm happy without, and with my publishers, and my editor. I know what she/they like. I know they like my writing. I'm happy with everything wi them. More than happy.

However, I'm wanting to branch out into more mainstream fantasy (will keep writing what I'm already writing too. But...) For that, who I'm subbing to at the moment it's...not their thing? Or rather, probably not their readers' thing. So for that, I'll be looking for an agent.

Nothing to say you have to have an agent for all your stuff, is there? (And yes, I would bring this up. If I ever got that far.)
 

CAWriter

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I do agree with this:

"Even if you do have an agent, you still need to know what you're doing. You need to know just as much about the business as your agent does, and you need to know just as much about contracts."

The rest, not so much.

My first book was purchased after being seen by an agent at a conference. I found my first agent (the only 'agency' in my genre at the time) after I got the "we want to publish your book," call.

I know enough about contracts to understand what I'm signing and to point out things that I want changed. I prefer to have an agent do the talking at those times though.

I also know that writers with agents, by and large, (obviously there are exceptions to everything so I don't want anyone coming back to give me three names of people who have written 46 books--agented--and are now doing it on their own with 6 or 7-figure advances), get better contracts than those without. I know, because I have friends who have been on both sides of the table. One friend who was a writer first, who became an editor closed the door of her office to tell me one of the biggest surprises of her new career was to see the difference in the contracts between agented authors and non-agented authors. Some were among the publisher's leading authors, but if they didn't have an agent, they didn't get as much as those who did. Another friend who was an editor and is now an agent told me the same thing.

I have access to editors; I'm good at knowing which publishers are a likely fit for different projects; I understand much about the the business. But I still prefer to have an agent on my team than going it alone.
 

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I think agents have an important place in the writer-publisher relationship. But with all the turmoil in publishing right now it's no wonder that the scoundrels are coming out to cheat whoever they can. The publishing world may have to go through a house cleaning to make having an agent respectable again.

A legitimate agent will happily refer you to authors they currently work with.

A legitimate agent is delighted, in fact, to talk about current author and recently contracted-and-public books.

A legitimate agent will negotiate the agency contract with you, and will talk to you wrt to contracts with publishers.

Ask agents who they represent; ask authors if they like their agent.
 

hillaryjacques

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Nothing to say you have to have an agent for all your stuff, is there? (And yes, I would bring this up. If I ever got that far.)

This is a correct assumption, and something I'm seeing more and more of, where an agented author is actively working alone on side projects.

I think it always best to run something by an agent to see if its something he/she thinks he/she can market successfully.

Now, developing a strategy for what you're going to be working on alone versus what the agent will be working on, will be a longer discussion. That's where consideration of whether to use the other projects to build a following separate from or in conjunction with the agented work will come in.
 

ChaosTitan

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Nothing to say you have to have an agent for all your stuff, is there? (And yes, I would bring this up. If I ever got that far.)

Not at all. It's possible you'll write something your agent doesn't rep, or that you know is a good fit for a market that doesn't require an agent for submission.

But it's definitely something to discuss with your (potential) agent.

A legitimate agent will happily refer you to authors they currently work with.

A legitimate agent is delighted, in fact, to talk about current author and recently contracted-and-public books.

A legitimate agent will negotiate the agency contract with you, and will talk to you wrt to contracts with publishers.

Ask agents who they represent; ask authors if they like their agent.

Exactly. There are plenty of resources online that will help steer authors away from the scam agents.

Just like their are plenty of resources to steer you away from scam publishers, scam credit card companies, scam cleaning services, scam financial investments, scam....etc...infinity....
 

RemusShepherd

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A legitimate agent will happily refer you to authors they currently work with.

A legitimate agent is delighted, in fact, to talk about current author and recently contracted-and-public books.

A legitimate agent will negotiate the agency contract with you, and will talk to you wrt to contracts with publishers.

Ask agents who they represent; ask authors if they like their agent.

This is all true. However, I've heard about another wrinkle that's been appearing recently. Some legitimate agents and agencies are dicking around with their contracts to screw more money out of the writer. Because business is so tight, some agents are starting to look out for their agency first and the author somewhat further down the list. Asking other authors about that agent may not give you an accurate view if those authors have older and more genteel contracts.

This has nothing to do with scam agents. This is an attempt to change the accepted rules of the game to the detriment of the author. If one agency is allowed to get away with it, the others will follow suit.

Again, this is just what I'm hearing from a few different sources -- this post is probably the clearest illustration.

I still think having a good agent is best. But you still have to be careful. You used to be able to trust a reputable agent to keep you away from the sharks, and now you have to treat them as potential sharks themselves.
 

Libbie

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I cited Dean Wesley Smith. Read his blog and that of Kristin Rusch. I have no evidence of my own, I am only going by what some professional authors are stating publically. It would delight me if they're all wrong.

I remember when Smith's blog post re: agents was circulated several months ago. I read it then, and I recall that the reaction I had was "It's easy for you to say that writers should go without agents, Dean. You've already established a career, and did it years ago when it was far less necessary to have an agent in order to access big publishers." Doors open for authors who have an established backlist but stay shut and barred for new writers. Whenever I see an established author touting going agent-free, I have to roll my eyes a little over how insular that opinion is.

Working without an agent may be a viable option for new authors, but getting access to the same kinds of opportunities and contracts as agented authors will take an extraordinary amount of time and effort -- the kind of time and effort that might be prohibitive for a good many new writers. Those established authors who promote going agent-free neglect to mention this, and give the impression that it's a level playing field for everybody. It's not.
 

gothicangel

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I remember when Smith's blog post re: agents was circulated several months ago. I read it then, and I recall that the reaction I had was "It's easy for you to say that writers should go without agents, Dean. You've already established a career, and did it years ago when it was far less necessary to have an agent in order to access big publishers." Doors open for authors who have an established backlist but stay shut and barred for new writers. Whenever I see an established author touting going agent-free, I have to roll my eyes a little over how insular that opinion is.

Working without an agent may be a viable option for new authors, but getting access to the same kinds of opportunities and contracts as agented authors will take an extraordinary amount of time and effort -- the kind of time and effort that might be prohibitive for a good many new writers. Those established authors who promote going agent-free neglect to mention this, and give the impression that it's a level playing field for everybody. It's not.

Libbie beat me to it. :)

I really hate it when people who should know better, say this kind of stuff. They set new writers up for a lot of heartache.
 

wizard tim

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I think there are several viable business models, and the one you choose depends entirely on your goal. When you finish your manuscript, consider sitting down with a piece of paper and pencil and write out your goal for that project.

If it's a short story, you can submit it yourself. If it's a novel, you may want to go the do-it-yourself ebook route, or you may want an agent, or you may go print-on-demand. It depends on the nature of the story, your goal and even your personality. I know writers who want to write whatever they want even if it doesn't sell much because creative control is paramount to them. Others want the support and advice of an agent. It just depends.

I think there's room here for all of us.
 

COchick

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Different strokes for different folks, I think.

I decided to go the agent route because that's what works best for me. I don't think I could handle doing submissions for my own book. I know this sounds incredibly stupid, but when I was sending out queries to agents, it was seriously a major nightmare. I'm not the most organized person, and even with an excel spreadsheet and all the details of each agent I'd contacted, it was still a mess. I'd rather be writing than worrying about finding the right editors to send my stuff to.
 

gothicangel

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Different strokes for different folks, I think.

I decided to go the agent route because that's what works best for me. I don't think I could handle doing submissions for my own book. I know this sounds incredibly stupid, but when I was sending out queries to agents, it was seriously a major nightmare. I'm not the most organized person, and even with an excel spreadsheet and all the details of each agent I'd contacted, it was still a mess. I'd rather be writing than worrying about finding the right editors to send my stuff to.

Not to mention depressing as well as stressful. If I get too stressed I lose the will to write [I suffer from depression]. Agents are bad enough, but waiting for publishers? I would rather have my agent saying, right this is what is happening . . .
 

ishtar'sgate

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Did you have an agent before and decided you were better going at it on your own? /QUOTE]

This. He couldn't sell it, I could and was quite happy with the results. I may make another stab at getting an agent for my current WIP but as it's another historical I'll probably end up selling it myself.
 

elindsen

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Unagented romance writer here. Not really by choice. Why? Because I don't think I make enough to interest an agent. I'm happy epublishing my romance novellas.
Same here. For my adult writing, I write novellas and am perfectly happy doing so. At this time I don't need an agent. Even for my kids writing, most pubs take directly from writers because agents don't want to bother with the small advances picture books bring in.
 
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