How do you know when to give up?

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Ken

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... sounds like you're doing fine for your first time around. Seriously. Many who query their first receive form rejection letters and nothing more. So stick it out. And if this one doesn't find the mark, look ahead to your next. G'luck.
 
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Stream Liner Series

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REJECTED By PUBLISHERS

Kathryn Sockett - The Help - 60 times

Pearl S. Buck - The Good Earth - 14 times

Norman Mailer - The Naked and the Dead - 12 times

Patrick Dennis- Auntie Mame - 15 times
George Orwell - Animal Farm

Richard Bach - Jonathan Livingston Seagull - 20 times

Joseph Heller - Catch-22 - 22 times (!)

Mary Higgins Clark - first short story - 40 times

Alex Haley - before Roots - 200 rejections

Robert Persig - Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance - 121 times

John Grisham - A Time to Kill - 15 publishers and 30 agents (he ended up publishing it himself)

Chicken Soup for the Soul - 33 times

Dr. Seuss - 24 times

Louis L'Amour - 200 rejections

Jack London - 600 before his first story

John Creasy - 774 rejections before selling his first story. He went on to write 564 books, using fourteen names.

Jerzy Kosinski - 13 agents and 14 publishers rejected his best-selling novel when he submitted it under a different name, including Random House, which had originally published it.
Diary of Anne Frank
 

Old Hack

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Stream Liner, I understand that you're trying to be helpful by posting that list but it doesn't really achieve anything: most books clock up some rejections on their way to publication, even best-sellers.

I've not checked out the numbers you quote, but even so I can see that there are a couple of problems with your list.

REJECTED By PUBLISHERS

John Grisham - A Time to Kill - 15 publishers and 30 agents (he ended up publishing it himself)

John Grisham didn't self publish A Time To Kill, it was published by a reputable but small independent publisher.

Jerzy Kosinski - 13 agents and 14 publishers rejected his best-selling novel when he submitted it under a different name, including Random House, which had originally published it.

If a novel which has already been published is sent out to publishers then of course it's likely to be rejected: the receiving publishers might well recognise it, in which case they'll either ignore it or reject it without comment, as they know that such a submission is likely to be a trap by a writer or journalist wishing to prove a point, or is likely to come from a nutter.

If they don't recognise it but reject it, that proves nothing: just that they didn't think they could publish it appropriately at that time. Why is this such a problem? And why do people continue to submit already-published works and then crow about how the books were rejected as if that proves anything at all? All it shows is how little the person who sent it in knows about the business of publishing.
 

Jamesaritchie

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REJECTED By PUBLISHERS

Kathryn Sockett - The Help - 60 times

Pearl S. Buck - The Good Earth - 14 times

Norman Mailer - The Naked and the Dead - 12 times

Patrick Dennis- Auntie Mame - 15 times
George Orwell - Animal Farm

Richard Bach - Jonathan Livingston Seagull - 20 times

Joseph Heller - Catch-22 - 22 times (!)

Mary Higgins Clark - first short story - 40 times

Alex Haley - before Roots - 200 rejections

Robert Persig - Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance - 121 times

John Grisham - A Time to Kill - 15 publishers and 30 agents (he ended up publishing it himself)

Chicken Soup for the Soul - 33 times

Dr. Seuss - 24 times

Louis L'Amour - 200 rejections

Jack London - 600 before his first story

John Creasy - 774 rejections before selling his first story. He went on to write 564 books, using fourteen names.

Jerzy Kosinski - 13 agents and 14 publishers rejected his best-selling novel when he submitted it under a different name, including Random House, which had originally published it.
Diary of Anne Frank

Much of this is myth. And John Grisham never self-published anything. This particular myth started because his orginal publisher folded, and a new self-publisher with the same name often gets the credit for publishing his first novel. But he never self-published anything.
 

Jamesaritchie

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REJECTED By PUBLISHERS


Jerzy Kosinski - 13 agents and 14 publishers rejected his best-selling novel when he submitted it under a different name, including Random House, which had originally published it.

I meant to mention this, as well. Some idiot tries this almost every year. I've been on the receiving end of it. The rule is to simply reject it and send it back, usually without comment.
 

Windcutter

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And why do people continue to submit already-published works and then crow about how the books were rejected as if that proves anything at all? All it shows is how little the person who sent it in knows about the business of publishing.
I guess it's because of the popular statement which says "good books get published, so all you need to do to get published is to write a good one"--people want to prove it isn't so.
 

Barbara R.

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I've been querying my first novel for 5 months. My query letter is doing its job. I have had good responses. Out of 37 total queries, I've gotten 10 requests. Of the 10, I've gotten 3 nice, helpful rejects (so far,I'm sure I'll get more).

So I'm not there yet, but for those who have been through this, what has made you stop querying? I know different agents will say "100 queries then quit, 200 queries then quit."

I am waiting now. Aren't we always waiting? I'll send another batch of ten or so in a few weeks. In the meantime between my real job, and working on my next project, I've got lots of time to consider my ultimate failure (dramatic, much?).

Maybe I just need a pep talk.

Sometimes a book needs more than one round of querying. You've had a good response so far. Ten requests for pages is more than respectable. Personal responses with actual reasons and critiques are gold. If any of the other seven make an offer, which might well happen, then the point is moot. If they don't, my advice would be to stop submitting, pool all the feedback you've received, and if it resonates, consider doing another revision. It's really hard to get a book accepted. If you're getting a lot of "close but no cigar," it suggests two things: first that you're a good enough writer for those agents to have spent their time (=money, for agents) responding substantively; and second that your book needs another edit or two.
 
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Phaeal

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You have a killer response rate. Don't quit. Query until you run out of agents, then lie in wait for new ones. In the meantime, if you think of any way to improve the MS or query package, do so.

I'm not the all-time rejection champion, but I think I'm up there:

281 agent rejections (including the many who never responded.)

Then came the right agent.

Then came the right deal.

Give up? Why? Can't win if you don't play.
 

Old Hack

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Only trying to cheer people up, but some people just don't want to be cheered up lol You can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink :Hug2: This site is way too negative for my positive vibes :roll:

I'm sorry if you find the truth "way too negative for [your] positive vibes", but that doesn't stop it being what it is. Countering misinformation isn't negative, it's helpful to our members, no matter how unpalatable it might sometimes be to a few.

Having said that I do hope you'll stick around: AW is a big and fabulous place and, more importantly, it has a wonderful membership. It would be a shame if you left it over this one relatively minor issue.
 

Filigree

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Steam Liner Series, I hope you do stick around. AW is one of several writing and art forums I visit regularly, but it is the most professional. I've learned more about writing and publishing in my two years here than in the sixteen before that.

I have a lot of supportive friends here, who comfort me over rejections and bad reviews. But on the business end of things, I'd much rather know some uncomfortable truths than read a bunch of 'chicken soup for writers' motivational quips.

It's very easy, at the early phases of one's writing, to mistake objective criticism for personal attack, or a realistic viewpoint for crushing negativity.

People didn't criticize *you*, they corrected your post. Mainly because we've seen variations of it for years, as well-meaning folks offer it as hope for those of us struggling with rejections. And that's fine - as long as the information in the list is vetted for accuracy. A fair number of these examples aren't accurate, so they don't provide a clear picture for newer writers.

When newer writers make business decisions based on inaccurate information, they can get themselves into career-killing trouble.
 

Jamesaritchie

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The real trick isn't about giving up on a book, it's about writing the next book as soon as possible. Too many new writer put all their energy into trying to find an agent and publisher for a book. Yes, keep the book out there. If it's any good at all, someone, somewhere will take an interest in it, and if not in it, then in your potential.

But while that book is making the rounds you must be writing a second, a third, and a fourth, if you're prolific enough. There's no more reason to expect a first novel to sell than to expect a first painting to sell. But you keep it on the market until there simply is no one else to send it to. No more agents, no more editors, no more anything.

But submitting anything is always a second priority. Priority number one must be getting the second, third, however many books you can write finished and on the market. Even a slow writer should be able to have a second novel making the rounds long before all the possible agents and publisher for the first book are exhausted.

You learn with each book. THE novel you need to break through might be the first, but it might also be the fourth or the fifth of the ninth.

Being a writer isn't about any one book, and one project, it's about the process of writing continually, of learning and growing with each new book. You simply can't worry about whatever book or books you have in submission. You just keep sending them out as they get rejected, but you have to concentrate your time, energy, and emotional state on the book you;re writing at the moment, and there should always be a book you're writing at the moment.
 
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