The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Canada James · Apr 4, 2005

In All Fairness

Ann said:
I was told by AST that since the book had already gone to print they did not feel that the small error would affect the overall quality of reading. Duh! POD?? Like there were hundreds of books in print already? They adamantly refused to correct the PDF file.

A friend of mine found errors in my novel after printing. I emailed AST about it, and (in all fairness) they corrected the .pdf copy without so much as an argument. They even changed the cover when I requested it. (This was well after I'd been banned from their boards.)

How much you want to bet a new employee got fired that day?

James

Jeff · Apr 4, 2005

You're right Victoria. I'm a fan of the Anita Blake series and given the content I'm to distracted to notice the errors. If she is dyslexic or not, she can write some good books.

I've come to see my book buying, in part, as a sort of unspoken agreement between the author, publishing house, and myself. It's funny, after looking at it, how much certain things affect my buying decisions.

My wife and I are also a huge fans of the Anita Blake series of books. We have them all, including this last one. At 700+ pages it was priced a bit higher than her previous work, but we were willing to pay.

Why?

Because up to that point all parties involved had lived up to their part of the "deal". The author had written great stories with interesting characters, the publishing house had arranged and edited that story to make it easy for me to read, thus I shelled out my hard-earned cash to purchase it.

Everyone was happy.

The last book, however, left me feeling that I was the only one living up to the bargain. I must admit that I can forgive a lot of things from the author's side. Just because I did not like a particular book in the series, does not mean it was a bad book. If an author strays too many times from what I enjoy reading, despite what they have written in the past, then they have broken the "contract" and I no longer purchase their books. The last Anita Blake book started the countdown clock, in that regard.

However, in this instance the publishing house completely broke faith. They simply did not do their job. They published a book with numerous typos, that was poorly edited (as others have noted, it seems as if the author is dyslexic) both for mistakes and content and because of that it was difficult to read. I suspect due to things the author has said -- although I have no proof -- that she exerted influence in limiting the extent that an editor could actually edit her manuscript.

Always a bad idea. The reviews for this latest book have been savage. It is her worst reviewed book in the series. I will not be buying the next book in the series, since I was the only one who held up my end of the bargain last time. Being a fan, I will check it out in the library and see if the other participants in the "deal" have come to their senses and make further buying decisions from there.

So, how does this pertain to PA?

It's obvious that an author who is as wildly popular and who has as many books under her belt as Laurell K. does still needs a good editor. Everyone's writing, I suspect, can improve under the trained eye of a good editor (not to say that what they want to do to ones work is always correct). By not truly editing the manuscripts PA seems to be simply leaving authors to twist in the wind for all to see.

Might be what the author wants, does not mean it is a good idea. Not if you want to build a career writing.

Just my thoughts.

Otter: "He can't do that to our pledges!"
Boone: "Only WE can do that to our pledges!"

astonwest · Apr 4, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
(I think that the new Print Unedited option means that a) they've noticed that their books sell exactly as well whether they're "edited" or not, and b) they're planning to cut staff to save money. Hard times in Frederick? As long as they offer what they call editing as an option, they'll skate on their "traditional publisher" story, just like they're skating on their "returnable Independence Books" story.)

I see it as a two-stage situation. The first, they probably do want to cut costs, by having fewer editors.

The second, however, is more sinister. What is one of the major issues brought up on the various message boards chastising PA? Lack of editing...

So, what will happen when an author signs with PA?
Author is signed, and made to wait for 3 months or so. Nervous anticipation creeps in. They want to see their book, and feel that excitement of holding their book in their hand.

PA shoots them off an e-mail (and they may wait until the author is posting on the message board such things as "Oh, I can't wait until my book comes out"). The e-mail is simple: Would you like to have your book come out sooner, or would you have to wait an extra long time while we have to sit around and edit the book? By the way, you've heard all those horror stories about editors ruining your style, right? I'm sure that won't happen here, but there's no guarantee. We personally think your book is just perfect the way it is.

Author chews on their nails for a while. Would they really ruin my style? Would I really have to wait THAT long to see my book? I can't wait any longer...no, I don't want to have it edited, it's good enough.

Months later, when the author finally comes to their senses (as most do), they realize that they can no longer use the "lack of editing" as a valid complaint (even though it may have been in the contract) with federal/legal entities...because they agreed to waive the option (even if the editing wouldn't have been useful anyway).

Maybe I'm just that cynical.

Oh, for Glenn...please show me where in my contract my extremely inflated price was specified. I've been looking for that for a long time, and still have yet to find it. Thanks...

Ed Williams · Apr 4, 2005

Galoot, dangit...

But Ed. By the time they can see their posts getting deleted they've already signed the contract. The boards aren't there for the authors, they're there to lure in new victims.

....don't take that tone with me! Your post resonated with reason and logic, so never post again! You're banned off these boards, the only thing that can save you is you have to write in your next post, "Willem Meiners is a publishing genius," one hundred times.... :Jump:

From our good friends over at www.authorsmarket.net:

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Well, here is a reality check. A book product is as good as its manufacturer. American printers are, as a rule, very good manufacturers when it comes to the actual printing. Binders, that's a different story. If a binder uses substandard glue, or processes the production line too fast, problems will show. The most common consumer beef: spines that crack, pages that come falling out.

[/font]

It happens, and alarmingly it happens more and more. Generally not to POD books, though. When books come apart, it is usually an offset product. Not only that, it is usually a book from a major publishing house, such as Warner, HarperCollins, TOR, Simon&Schuster, Little Brown, St. Martin's, and the blacklist also includes the entire Harry Potter series by Scholastic.

Whew, I'm glad that's straightened out! My only advice to all you Harry Potter fans out there is to read your books quickly before they disintegrate right in your hands!

Today is going to be a good one - I have my new autographed Jerry Lee Lewis picture right next to my computer, and I'm wearing my brand new ICEE logo t-shirt. Life is good....

Eric 'Otter' Stratton

Click to expand...

: Flounder, you can't spend your whole life worrying about your mistakes! You ****ed up -- you trusted us! Hey, make the best of it!

Gratian Gasparri · Apr 4, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
(The first thing that happens when you get your author's copies of your book (after dancing around and whooping) is you open it, and you open it directly to the biggest, nastiest typo in the world. It's like a law of nature.)

Not in my case Uncle Jim. I opened it to a sub-title different than the one on the front cover. As a result, my publisher now has a new policy in place to prevent this type of mishap in the future.

Jaws · Apr 4, 2005

Sassenach said:
PA, where they don't merely edit, but 'edit with gusto.'

That explains it! I always edited with a pen or the computer. That way, my changes actually got into the text. What is this "gusto" stuff, anyway?

realitychuck · Apr 4, 2005

Jaws said:
That explains it! I always edited with a pen or the computer. That way, my changes actually got into the text. What is this "gusto" stuff, anyway?

In PA's case, "gusto" means "no looking at the text."

AnneMarble · Apr 4, 2005

Ed Williams[size=2 said:
Whew, I'm glad that's straightened out! My only advice to all you Harry Potter fans out there is to read your books quickly before they disintegrate right in your hands![/size]

Funny, I thought those books disintegrated because the kids read them over and over again.

Interesting that they mention Tor. Their FAQ (at http://www.tor.com/torfaq.html#defective_books) mentions defective books. I wonder if that's why they got them from? The ironic thing is that Tor admits that defective books do happen and how to contact them if you get one. They even have a spot on their website where you can read the missing text from one of their paperbacks. They also want to hear from readers and are interested in what they think of the books.
:faint:

DaveKuzminski · Apr 4, 2005

<SARCASM>Yeah, like we'll ever see PA take the time or effort to post corrections or missing text on their web pages for their customers.</SARCASM>

T42 · Apr 4, 2005

DaveKuzminski said:
<SARCASM>Yeah, like we'll ever see PA take the time or effort to post corrections or missing text on their web pages for their customers.</SARCASM>

I was shocked to see that they had put my disclaimer on the back of my book which is in the book itself where it should be. Pa said that I was the one that did the back page that way. I was so angry because I have a copy of all the questionnaires and exactly how I wanted the book. (They won't take the blame for anything) I was also shocked to see that they had changed some words from being correct to being incorrect. Do they not think that we have the original. Also because I am an artist they wanted to make my picture on the back of the book look like a painting. When they sent it to me on the computer I was kind of impressed. It looked cool. When I got the books I was furious. It looked like a distorted picture. (Done by someone that doesn't know how to work a camera.) To me the book looks cheap and unprofessional!

Kevin Yarbrough · Apr 4, 2005

DaveKuzminski said:
<SARCASM>Yeah, like we'll ever see PA take the time or effort to post corrections or missing text on their web pages for their customers.</SARCASM>

Sure they will Dave. It's called the MB. Their customers are the authors.

Deleted member 42 · Apr 4, 2005

Jaws said:
That explains it! I always edited with a pen or the computer. That way, my changes actually got into the text. What is this "gusto" stuff, anyway?

I thought editing with gusto meant PA edited with Schlitz.

clintl · Apr 4, 2005

and the blacklist also includes the entire Harry Potter series by Scholastic

Harry Potter has been blacklisted?

Patricia · Apr 4, 2005

Canada James said:
A friend of mine found errors in my novel after printing. I emailed AST about it, and (in all fairness) they corrected the .pdf copy without so much as an argument. They even changed the cover when I requested it. (This was well after I'd been banned from their boards.)

You got lucky James, dealing with PA "editors" is like playing roulette; wherever the ball falls is what you get. They would like us to believe that they assign editors according to content and genre. That is a bunch of bunk, because my editor didn't know the basic grammar mechanics regarding certain aspects of my genre content.

One thing, end result of experiences with PA editors -- when you have had the worst of the worse, it makes dealing with anything else a piece of cake in comparison.

Uncarved · Apr 4, 2005

Kevin Yarbrough said:
I am God in the sack (if, and when that happens. Zaz, send some of those ladies my way). I am God of this computer (if it doesn't freeze up or the dang thing doesn't get booted of the internet).
.

Could be worse, Kev... you could be God in the sack (if you don't freeze up or get booted off) and God of the computer (if and when it works)

James D. Macdonald · Apr 4, 2005

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Generally not to POD books, though. When books come apart, it is usually an offset product. Not only that, it is usually a book from a major publishing house, such as Warner, HarperCollins, TOR, Simon&Schuster, Little Brown, St. Martin's, and the blacklist also includes the entire Harry Potter series by Scholastic.

Nope, generally not. I see they're playing games with percentages again. The reason more offset printed books come apart than digitally printed books is because there are more offset printed books.

If 1% of Time/Warner's books disintegrated on first reading, and 99% of PA's books disintegrated on first reading, more Time/Warner books would fall apart. It's usually a book from a major publisher because people are usually reading books from major publishers.

[/font]

ResearchGuy · Apr 4, 2005

changling said:
...My book was well edited thank you, and appears in print as such.

A PA book? What is the title? In view of your confidence that it is a well-edited book, I would be very interested in reading it with that in mind. What I have seen so far (posted excerpts, plus browsing through a PA book by a local writer) has not inspired confidence, so I would welcome "the rest of the story."

--Ken

Savannah Blue · Apr 4, 2005

New Contract

It seems as though we have yet another "General Partner" to add to the PublishAmerica saga. My letter and 'new contract' are signed by one I haven't heard of before.
Not trying to say it isn't just as big of a piece of crap as the rest of them, because it is.

Kevin Yarbrough · Apr 4, 2005

tinasamuels said:
Could be worse, Kev... you could be God in the sack (if you don't freeze up or get booted off) and God of the computer (if and when it works)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

You funny Tina. But you are right though. Never been froze in the sack, but have been booted off. Guess that will happen when the lady realizes that you aren't her boyfriend/hubby huh? And here I thought she left the window open for me, two stories up and no ladder. Drain spouts aren't as sturdy as they look you know.

Deleted member 42 · Apr 4, 2005

They mention Tor because Teresa Nielsen Hayden, a Tor editor, and the author of Making Light, a blog, posts things like these:

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/002692.html

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/002703.html

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/005540.html

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/006032.html#006032

Oh, and the stuff about bindings from non-POD books being sub-standard? Total crap.

Bindings, and book manufacture, and the technology behind POD--these are things I know about. Sure, there are problems with manufacturing--they happen to all publishers. There are some instances with particular books--especially large hardcovers--that make some pressings notorious. I know Tor, Knopf, and St. Martin's will accept returns from booksellers for quality control issues, and don't charge anything. I've personally received replacement books from Tor and Knopf, and Random House.

But POD books have problems too. First, if the glue temperature isn't perfect when the binding is applied, the binding won't adhere properly. And the cover will simply fall off. This is typical of the books manufactured at the start and end of a press run on a POD.

But the main problem with POD books is cover curling, because of the sealent used on the cover to make the colors "pop." That sealant will, once exposed to humid air, cause the cover to curl. You'll also notice that books printed when the copier was really hot will eventually have the ink flake off pages in patches because it didn't bond properly to the paper.

Uncarved · Apr 4, 2005

Kevin Yarbrough said:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

You funny Tina. But you are right though. Never been froze in the sack, but have been booted off. Guess that will happen when the lady realizes that you aren't her boyfriend/hubby huh? And here I thought she left the window open for me, two stories up and no ladder. Drain spouts aren't as sturdy as they look you know.

I told you not to visit that weekend, but thanks for calling me "lady"

T42 · Apr 4, 2005

This will be my last post at AW and I wanted to thank all of you for being here and giving me a place to vent about PA and a place to laugh and make friends. I wish everyone the best with their writing and with the fight against PA. You all have been the source of my sanity and I have found some true friendships.

Thank you so much!
ONE LAST TIME.....PublishAmerica Sucks!

underthecity · Apr 4, 2005

PA New Releases

The count for PA's new releases today is 80, a definite continued trend (though I'd still like to see someone put up a bar graph charting this progress).

WHEN, oh, when will see this figure drop to 60, to 40, and one day to 0?

underthecity

KellyS. · Apr 4, 2005

T42 said:
This will be my last post at AW and I wanted to thank all of you for being here and giving me a place to vent about PA and a place to laugh and make friends. I wish everyone the best with their writing and with the fight against PA. You all have been the source of my sanity and I have found some true friendships.

Thank you so much!
ONE LAST TIME.....PublishAmerica Sucks!

Where the heck are you going Mem?

CaoPaux · Apr 4, 2005

Why look, a positive post (paragraphing and underlining mine):

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8632.htm

Hi all, I’ve got wonderful news/experience to share. If I haven’t said it often enough; Borders is awesome! If it were not for them, I’ve no idea where I would be. It was a long, tough struggle, but I managed to get my local Borders in Fairfield, CT to stock my book, “Threads In Time” at their cost. Yup, your eyes do not deceive you, they purchased them. And I have an internal number with them in the Northeast only. However, it is the only store that actually has them on the shelf. I still have yet to purchase one of my books and have no plans to do so. I didn’t pay a publicist or advertiser either. I can’t afford it and even if I could, I wouldn’t. It wouldn’t make a difference unless my book was available in bookstores nationwide. By available, I mean on the shelf.

The woman who runs the reading groups was responsible for the initial ordering. It is important to mention that I have never been a member of any of their groups. This woman is not someone I already knew from past anything. With an enormous amount of persistence and determination, they/she realized that I’m serious about my work and decided to give my book a chance.

In other words, it’s not impossible to succeed locally, IF you can find a bookstore manager who’s willing to listen and you invest the time to develop a relationship. You cannot just show up on the doorstep and beg to have your book put on the shelf. You can’t browbeat them into submission, or try to, either. Remember, in the future you may be published with a house that may set up a signing for you in that very store. Burning bridges is not a good idea. If a manager says no and lists the reasons that we’re all familiar with, don’t argue. I’ve got another book in the works and certainly don’t want managers that I may work with down the road brand me as argumentative.

I know it’s tough to walk away, I’ve had to, but instead of allowing the experience to defeat me/you; learn instead and move on to another store. Initially, I left B & N and drove 3 miles down the same street to Borders. Smartest drive I’ve ever made.

I’m beginning to think the creative writing class I took for over a year is paying off big time. I learned an awful lot from Robert, who has since passed away, and thank him every day for all I learned from him.
Okay, drum roll here…because of how well my speaking to the two reading groups went, I was invited to participate in an authors roundtable with 2 other CT authors. And it’s this Wednesday, April 6th from 7pm-9pm at good ole’ Borders in Fairfield. And the CEO of Borders was in the store on Friday presenting a national award to the moderator of all the groups. She’s unable to make it to San Diego on Monday for the ceremony so the head honcho dropped in. And what did he see? Well, my book prominently displayed on TWO endcaps along with the other 2 authors. He also saw the huge displays both at the front and back doors.
Since this is the first roundtable to take place at Borders, he’ll be watching to see how the kick-off goes. Not bad for tons and tons of work on my part; CEO of Borders knows who I am!!

I am so motivated to keep working on my next novel and can’t wait to see where it takes me. I will let all of you know how Wednesday goes. Now I have to work on what to talk about for 15 minutes.

Jean

-----
I'd bet that, if she didn't have to beg to get into stores, she'd be well into her third book by now. *sigh*

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Take off!

Quixote without a cause

2 WIP? A glutton for punishment

Grand Inquisitor

Apex Predator

Hack Writer

Nefarious Ghost Fan

Preditors & Editors

Herb Lady

Will write for peace of mind

Deleted member 42

Represent.

California Dreaming

I aim to misbehave

Your Genial Uncle

Resident Curmudgeon

None

Will write for peace of mind

Deleted member 42

I aim to misbehave

Herb Lady

Finestkind

*****

Mostly Harmless