"As" weakening a sentence

Lauram6123 · Feb 18, 2014

A beta reader told me to avoid using "as" whenever possible. He suggested I change A to B.

A. "Good Lord," the doctor muttered, quickening his pace as the butler followed closely behind.

B. “Good Lord,” the doctor muttered, quickening his pace, the butler following closely behind.

My question is, does this sound right? I've read it the A way for so long, I honestly can't tell anymore.

And when does "as" weaken a sentence?

MookyMcD · Feb 18, 2014

I think you created a comma splice when you fixed the sentence. "As," like everything else, is fine when used for a purpose and not when it isn't. In your example, I'd probably lose it and have two sentences.

eta -- I was wrong, for some reason I read following as followed. My bad.

mirandashell · Feb 18, 2014

Read them out loud to yourself. Which one flows better?

Myrealana · Feb 18, 2014

There is a tendency when writing action to try and make everything happen at once to increase the immediacy.

"As the glass shattered, I pulled my gun. He whirled to meet my gaze as he pulled his as well."

What really happened in the scene was the man crashed through the glass, causing the narrator to pull her gun. Then, he turned, saw she was pointing a pistol at him and pulled his as well. The use of "as" says these things happened simultaneously, when they were really a closely-timed sequence.

In your example, version (A) means the butler acted simultaneously with the doctor's pace quickening. In fact, he probably would have had to hurry to catch up, reacting to the doctor changing his pace without warning. That's what makes (B) a better version - though I think Mooky's orginal instinct is correct. I would go with version
(C) "Good Lord," the doctor muttered, quickening his pace. The butler followed closely behind.

guttersquid · Feb 18, 2014

Myrealana has it right. There's nothing wrong with using "as" as long as it's saying what you really mean. Consider this sentence:

I sank to my knees as a bullet whizzed over my head.

While it's perfectly possible for those actions to happen at the same time, the two really have nothing to do with each other. On the other hand, if you're trying to say the bullet missed you because you sank to your knees, then you'd have to write something like:

I sank to my knees, and a bullet whizzed over my head.

Okay, not the best example, but I hope I've made my point.

King Neptune · Feb 18, 2014

A is a better sentence in my opinion.

Lauram6123 · Feb 18, 2014

Myrealana said:
There is a tendency when writing action to try and make everything happen at once to increase the immediacy.

"As the glass shattered, I pulled my gun. He whirled to meet my gaze as he pulled his as well."

What really happened in the scene was the man crashed through the glass, causing the narrator to pull her gun. Then, he turned, saw she was pointing a pistol at him and pulled his as well. The use of "as" says these things happened simultaneously, when they were really a closely-timed sequence.

In your example, version (A) means the butler acted simultaneously with the doctor's pace quickening. In fact, he probably would have had to hurry to catch up, reacting to the doctor changing his pace without warning. That's what makes (B) a better version - though I think Mooky's orginal instinct is correct. I would go with version
(C) "Good Lord," the doctor muttered, quickening his pace. The butler followed closely behind.

Oh my God, I can't even tell you how helpful that is. I totally rush my action along by trying to put too much into a single sentence. That really gives me a new perspective to look at that whole scene.

Still, though, I find myself looking at all the "as"s in my writing and feeling insecure about them.

Lauram6123 · Feb 18, 2014

mirandashell said:
Read them out loud to yourself. Which one flows better?

Normally, that would work for me. But I have worked, reworked and edited this scene until I am numb. I honestly can't hear anything other than my own frustration when I read it out loud.

guttersquid · Feb 18, 2014

If you wish to keep it to one sentence, I believe the best solution would be:

"Good Lord," the doctor muttered, quickening his pace, and the butler followed closely behind.

Also believe "closely" should be "close." Come to think of it, doesn't "followed" mean behind? Maybe a better soultion would be:

"Good Lord," the doctor muttered, quickening his stride, and the butler kept pace behind him.

Izz · Feb 18, 2014

Hopefully this doesn't sound like me harping on, Lauram6123, seeing as you've already got good advice, but anyways: i concur with Myrealana's suggestion to break the sentence in two.

Not grammar-related, particularly, but for extra points, after splitting, why not play around with the second sentence some:

"Good Lord," the doctor muttered, quickening his pace. The butler trailed at his heels.

"Good Lord," the doctor muttered, quickening his pace. The butler hurried to catch up.

etc.

ETA: As to your beta reader's opinion, i agree with him. imo, as-clauses (i'm sure that's not what they're called, but they need a name, right?) often weaken a sentence/paragraph/scene because they're very easy to misuse (and overuse). Even when used correctly they can trip a reader up, forcing them to go back and reread to understand the chain of events. That's not to say you need to remove all instances of 'this happened as this happened' from your story, but it's always good to be aware of a potential issue.

boron · Feb 18, 2014

How would the doctor write that sentence? In real life we rarely experience things simultaneously even if they occur at the same time; we just experience them as two events. You use "as" only when the fact that two things have occured simultaneously by itself is important.

Lauram6123 · Feb 18, 2014

Izz said:
"Good Lord," the doctor muttered, quickening his pace. The butler hurried to catch up.

Ooo! Is it plagiarism if I just use this one?

And I see what you are saying about them causing the reader to back up, and reread. I really need to go over my work and look for this problem.

Izz · Feb 18, 2014

Lauram6123 said:
Ooo! Is it plagiarism if I just use this one?

Haha. Go for it!

Bufty · Feb 19, 2014

Careless use of 'as' can weaken a sentence by reversing the correct sequence of events (as shown above) and in such cases breaking the flow.

Russell Secord · Feb 19, 2014

In my opinion, using as as a conjunction is almost never a good idea. One of the conventions of fiction is that things happen in the order you present them. The only reason to link two actions with as is to show that they are happening simultaneously, but it's so overused, people don't read it that way. You can say the same thing with two sentences--the doctor mutters, then the butler follows.

Jamesaritchie · Feb 20, 2014

You need a new beta reader.

Lauram6123 · Feb 20, 2014

Jamesaritchie said:
You need a new beta reader.

Why?

evilrooster · Feb 20, 2014

I'm not sure I agree with James.

Beta readers are generally good at spotting that there's a problem, and where it is. Very, very few of them are good at telling you what the problem is or how to solve it. I'd say yours is doing pretty well, getting it down to sentence-level problems, even if you're then on your own a little in how to solve them.

Graz · Mar 23, 2014

Lauram6123 said:
A beta reader told me to avoid using "as" whenever possible.

Finished re-reading 'Affliction' for the third or fourth time. Russell Banks wrote 'as' multiple, if not 100's of times. "As someone walked past," and "..as if he was..., etc." Great book

blacbird · Mar 23, 2014

Lauram6123 said:
Oh my God, I can't even tell you how helpful that is. I totally rush my action along by trying to put too much into a single sentence. That really gives me a new perspective to look at that whole scene.

Still, though, I find myself looking at all the "as"s in my writing and feeling insecure about them.

A common problem I see in writing submitted for my English composition class as well as in manuscripts I critique is the unholy urge some writers have to cram as much info as possible into a single sentence. I sometimes wonder if people think there is a limited quantity of periods in the universe, and they're afraid they might use them all up.

That syndrome leads exactly to the problem you perceive in your example sentences (which aren't really all that bad, either one). Two general recommendations:

1. Pay close attention to what is continuous or simultaneous action and what is a short, quick event. Don't use structures implying continuing or simultaneous action for things that happen sequentially. It's really pretty hard to dive to the floor AS a bullet is whizzing past your head, for example.

2. Action scenes are often a sequence of quick things happening. Short, quick sentences convey the feel of such events to the reader much more effectively than do long, meandering sentences cobbled together from multiple dependent clauses.

caw

Ken · Mar 23, 2014

Yep. "Two sentences," would be better imo as well.

"Good Lord," muttered the doctor, quickening his pace. The butler followed closely behind.

With "as" the only time I'm heedful is when there are two consecutive "as's."

He was as good as the next fella. --> He was good as the next fella.

"As" weakening a sentence

Lauram6123

MookyMcD

I go to eleven

mirandashell

Myrealana

I aim to misbehave

guttersquid

I agree with Roxxsmom.

King Neptune

Lauram6123

Lauram6123

guttersquid

I agree with Roxxsmom.

Izz

Doing the Space Operatic

boron

Health writer

Lauram6123

Izz

Doing the Space Operatic

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

Russell Secord

nearly perfect

Jamesaritchie

Lauram6123

evilrooster

Wicked chicken

Graz

blacbird

Ken