Agreed, besides, I think of crucifixion as a Roman practice, so what would a fantasy-based culture that developed entirely separate from our world use this as punishment? TBH it does just conjure up the religion aspect.
Just my $.02
Crucifixion
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Agreed, besides, I think of crucifixion as a Roman practice, so what would a fantasy-based culture that developed entirely separate from our world use this as punishment? TBH it does just conjure up the religion aspect.
Just my $.02
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Well, Fantasy cultures seem to use an awful lot of features of our world quite often. They even seem to have the same animals most of the time, including humans. Why would crucifixion be any different?
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"We must nail the smeerp to the two piece scaffolding where one piece is secured to the other in the center, but slightly raised up so the shadow falls more dramatically."
"Couldn't we just stew it?"
Ah, a snide remark. Well, crucifixion is, as has been said, so religiously relevant that is bound to be seen as such in a story.
i.e. There is a saint in one of my fantasies and almost every beta has said, "why is there a christian saint in a fantasy world?" Though saints may not be inherently christian, they are viewed that way.
Like I said, that is my $.02.
Feel free to crucify your characters.
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Ah, a snide remark. Well, crucifixion is, as has been said, so religiously relevant that is bound to be seen as such in a story.
i.e. There is a saint in one of my fantasies and almost every beta has said, "why is there a christian saint in a fantasy world?" Though saints may not be inherently christian, they are viewed that way.
Like I said, that is my $.02.
Feel free to crucify your characters.
It's probably the word 'saint' that is too associated with Christianity. There are high quality holy people in every religion and some of them have enough of a supernatural kick (in the stories about them) to correspond to what the word saint usually means.
I've seen some books where the Buddhist term Bodhisattva is translated as saint.
There's a Chinese word that is translated as Sage which strikes me as innocuous for the amount of punch they often pack in stories.
Ironically, the word saint has different meanings for different Christian sects. For some it means high power holy people (often dead ones). For others it can mean the people of the community of the church.
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If people want to insist on bringing Christian connotations to a punishment that was around long before Christians, that's their lookout. When I think of Christians being executed I usually think of Nero and his human torches, but I could probably put that in a book without anyone saying, 'Won't you think of the Christians?'.
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Symbols can become attached to particular groups in a manner that overlays their previous history. The best non-Christian example I know of would, however, Godwin the thread.
In any case, I don't think it's reasonable to expect ones audience to not see the meanings in things that their culture gives them. We have to write in relation to how our audiences think, rather than insisting that they already understand and see things as we would like them to.
Changing people's minds about things is part of what art does. if one wants to crucify someone in a story without any Christian connotations, one should probably do the work to write it away from those associations. Make it a common form of execution or make the person executed a plain criminal or something other than a would-be martyr or anything else that moves away from the undesired perspective.
Now, i'm going to have to impale a character. I won't be able to get it out of my head until i do.
cat
And played to perfection by Peter O'Toole! ::swoons:: (Yes, i *am* that old.)
EDIT: Oh, oh. Apparently I'm *too* old, since that particular one was
Sean Connery. I was thinking of...darnit! I can't find the one i was thinking of. I saw it 3x, too! ::grumbles:: EDIT part dos: Lord Jim! I knew it was there somewhere [/derail]
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You're right, of course. I expressed myself badly. What I wanted to say was that if people want to insist on Christian meanings to the exclusion of all others, that's not a reason for us to accept that limitation ourselves.
I think that's what I wanted to say, anyway!
Connery and Micheal Caine were in A Man Who Would be King.
You might be thinking of Lord Jim, with Peter O'Toole. An excellent movie...
I'd go for a good old hanging and drawing, myself. Every bit as nasty and without any of those unfortunate implications.
I think the religious aspect is what makes it useful. It's part of the common "language" of symbolism. So you can crucify someone and evoke Christ, the one who dies for others. Or you can crucify them and invoke the cruelty that is at the heart of crucifixion. Or maybe the contradiction between the sacrificial savior and the vicious end of filthy felons. Or you can crucify them and invoke the wizard-god who dies for spiritual power, like Odin (Christ too!). Or something else, there's lots of possibilities.
An act with powerful symbolic connections ramps up the layers of meaning. This is catnip to lit-crit types, they can take the ball and run with it, coming up with all kinds of deep meanings whether the author meant them or not. And it gives the reader who's aware of symbolism something to chew on as it were. Little cookies or easter eggs or whatever you call 'em are appealing, I think they help draw readers back, so they can re-read your work and get something new each time.
I think of Christians being forced to fight lions in the Colosseum...or being torn apart by lions, really.
Good and accurate point. I'm in a workshop class right now and it's interesting to see the things people pull out of "random" events. 90% of the time what people think IS going on or the meaning behind an event is not the author's intention. Just interesting.
Ape shall not kill ape!
Oooh! I just remembered another, though it's cinematic. In Beneath the Planet of the Apes, when General Ursus and the Ape army invade the Forbidden Zone, the Mutants project terrifying images of flames and crucified apes to frighten them off. Trippy '70s sci-fi with a real eyeball kick.
Oooh! I just remembered another, though it's cinematic. In Beneath the Planet of the Apes, when General Ursus and the Ape army invade the Forbidden Zone, the Mutants project terrifying images of flames and crucified apes to frighten them off. Trippy '70s sci-fi with a real eyeball kick.
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