Writerly despair and other navel-gazing nonsense: with some swears, so be warned

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NeuroFizz

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Sorry to all, but I have to jump in again. And I do it with an initial apology in case anyone misinterprets the intent. There are people here who have diagnosed and undiagnosed emotional, mental, and physical challenges. And I really hope for a reasonable resolution to each and every one who experiences such challenges. But I just don't buy the statement that all writers are nutjobs. That takes serious individual problems and shoves them in with people who have problems like self-discipline, self-motivation, and fear of failure/success, as well as with a number of other people who have no clinical problems but like to hold onto that nutjob title for when things aren't goinig so well. And it promotes one of my pet peeves--excuses. Again, I'm not aiming this at people with clinical problems or real issues with writing. These people have my admiration for sticking to a difficult individual-based endeavor like writing and working hard to keep at it. But if anyone dismises productivity problems because all writers are nutjobs (and it's easy to do so), it allows the destructive nature of excuse-making to seep into one's creative productivity. Excuses let us become victims, and victimology is hard to get out of because it* (a) makes us feel good about ourselves, (b) demands respect, by-passing the appropriate route of earning it, and (c) it relieves us of any responsibility for our own fouled-up condition. When we hit a rut like Scarlet has articulated, it's real. It happens. Writing is hard and it has rough spots. But we have to accept those rough spots as part of the journey, and above all avoid using them as excuses to bail, to give up, to take up the role of victim to this creative endeavor. Excuses to avoid finishing, to avoid putting our work out there for evaluation (in case we aren't as good as we hope) make us victims. Some may be upset by this post, but Scarlet knows I love her and I will do anything I can to make sure she gains the success she is working so hard too achieve. Scarlet, look in the mirror. Are you making excuses? Don't become a victim.

*This take on victimology was provided by Leonard Pitts in a published and syndicated opinion editorial in our local newspaper. It was politically-directed, but it has universal meaning. I have slightly adapted it to this particular situation.
 
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skelly

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Based on some comments from you in another post Scarlet, I wonder if your just suffering from various stages of fear-of-rejection anxiety. You had mentioned elsewhere that you are putting off some editing because of that.

I have no idea where you are at in and among your various writing projects, but as it regards my own work I put up an enormous wall between the "writing my book" process and the "trying to get the damn thing published" process. By the time I have a book ready to be rejected all over hither and yon, I am emotionally detached from it. Sick of it, actually. It's just a file on the hard drive tucked into a folder with a couple of synopsis', a cover and query letter, and a list of agents in the general order that they are going to bat those letters back at me. I'm already ass-deep in my next writing project, which is obviously much better than my last effort, so who cares.

Of course, on the off chance that somebody actually likes my last effort, I'm not afraid to slam on the brakes and pull a U-ey right there in the middle of the highway.
 
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Mr Flibble

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But I just don't buy the statement that all writers are nutjobs.

No they aren't - that was just me being facetious. However, it is very common for writers, artists and actors to have emotional / mental health issues ( according to my doc anyway). And part of it ( apparently) is the range of emotions that we go through in our work. The emotional / mental problems can actually help you there, but the artistic endeavour doesn't help the emotional / mental problems.

I just have trouble saying anything seriously - especially as I'm still trying to come to terms with the fact that I am a nutjob, er mentally ill, and that I always have been and will be.

I wasn't using it as an excuse, or expecting anyone else to. It was more 'This is how it can be, learn to deal with it' I'm no one's bloody victim. It was merely an expression of the fact that many people who indulge in artistic endeavours have these problems, especially of the 'Oh god, I'm crap!' variety.

I'm sure many don't. But for me I think this is actually a plus - certain parts of the manic / depressive cycle, the way my mind works ( if it can be called working) allow me to really get inside my characters' skins. The 'I'm crap' moments motivate me to learn more, to get better so I won't have so many of those moments. If I just sat and thought 'Hey wow aren't I great' all the time I'd not bother. It's a bonus. But a bugger all the same.

PS - any time you feel like you might take one of my posts seriously, take a look at the first line of my sig. *wibble*
 
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Travis J. Smith

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dgrintalis said:
Nope. Do not stop. Do not take a break. You know what might happen if you do? You'll stop writing completely. For maybe seven or eight years. And then, when you pick it up again, you will tell yourself at first you suck and your words are worthless. Then, a little later you'll smack yourself over the head for those lost years and all those lost words.
Yes, I’ve been in that boat too, except it was a break of a couple months. For good reason – to focus on school – but still. Worth it? That much I’m not certain of.

Stick with it, Scarlet. What's the worst that can happen? So you write some sub-par material. Writers may find themselves in a groove with writing, but no writer sustains that groove indefinitely. The highs and lows are of a different degree depending on the writer, but they are still there.

Mad Queen said:
Progress is inevitable. It's just a question of time.
This. No matter how incremental it may be at times, it will come. It may feel like going from missing the mark entirely to barely glancing the side of it, but if you work at it you’ll be hitting the bullseye in time. How long it will take to do so is dependent on what you put into it and, as Mad Queen said, time.

IdiotsRUs said:
Get some sleep, go to the park and watch the fit blokesducks.
Oh how I wish our parks had ducks. The bunnies sometimes stage a hostile takeover of the football field, though . . .
Scarlet, no matter how much time we spend wallowing, the eventual highs are worth it. Writing is itself a sort of drug; the crash and jitters are to be expected, but it’s a fair trade for the highs.
 

Libbie

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HUGZZZ.

SP, if you need a fresh set of eyes on your work, you can email me. Lori can hook you up with my address. I know having a totally new perspective look at my work always gets me fired up again, whether they love it or hate it. If they love it, I know I'm not a total failfest. If they hate it, it usually pisses me off and makes me turn it up to 11 so as to prove 'em wrong.
 
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Christ on a bike; I get some sleep and this happens!

Um...I'm not one to go overboard emotionally. Just never been a gushy person, but...well you guys...you kinda don't suck as bad as I thought you did.

*cough*

No, I wasn't lying.

My brain-demons say you were. Churchill called them black dogs.

Me? I have...grey hamsters.

However, you may recall just a week ago when I sent you a few chapters which I thought were such complete and utter tripe that I was seriously considering dumping the entire book into the Wangstbasket, never to see the light of day again. Been there. I feel your pain.

That's something I'll never understand. How the writer can despise their own brain-vomit and the reader raves over it. Goes both ways with us but for people who are supposed to be people-watchers and truthfully represent folks on the page...we have such vastly differing views of reality that we can't both be right.

It's a mystery to me how this can happen.

Let's just blame it on low self-esteem and bipolar disorder.

I've been accused of being manic depressive, though never "officially". Maybe it's just a writer thing, as you said. God knows I get some serious lows and some wickedly cool highs.

thethinker42, you stand accused of being a mentally ill pervert. How do you plead?

Your mother can [censored] my [censored] with a [censored][censored] on a [censored] with a blue [censored].

She'd probably enjoy it, but thanks for the offer. Try a splintery baseball bat next time.

No, you're not bad. I can say this with absolute authority and have over 445 documented reasons to back me up.

Oh yeah.

*reads*

The only way out is through.

I hate it when you quote me back at myself.

...Don't think, just do.

A ton of us are rooting for you. Go forth bravely.

I hate my own lack of ability to take my own advice sometimes. I know what you say is true. I believe it when I say it to other people, but...

Argh. I hate the word 'but'. It means 'ignore everything I just said, I'm gonna tell you something different and possibly hypocritical'.

And now for Fizzy's posts. I knew he'd appear here and was looking forward to reading what he said. :D

when one really cranks out the words with great ease and then in another writing session finds them difficult (giving rise to a significant count difference), there is a tendency to emotionally blur the quantity thing over into quality.

I think that's exactly what I've been doing.

Many's the time where I've said I'm a feast-or-famine writer and I spend a lot of time wondering what consistency would feel like.

And the resulting impatience can poison the words that are written in the latter hour so the writer hates them.

How true.

Nails everywhere better watch out; Fizzy keeps hitting them on the head.

In each writing session, a writer should move the story along.

Something to remember.

I've deleted the word count meter from my blog and my signature here and I'm slowly trying to wean myself off this madness of aiming for so many thousand words for a book.

Daily targets, though, I think are good. They give me something to shoot for. If I was aimless or not bothered about writing so many pages a day, I doubt I'd get anything done.

Perhaps a schedule would be better than a set number? A time to write rather than a target?

Measure yourself against the story.

I liked this part.

You have said to other posters, numerous times, that writing is hard work. Now, you are complaining when you have a hard writing session?

That's why I feel like a hypocrite.

However, in my defence I should say this isn't so much a writing problem as a mental problem.

If I was a hairdresser or a bricklayer or a butcher, baker or candlestickmaker I'd feel the same. Writers just have more opportunity to angst publicly I guess.

I say this after a few hours' sleep (thank God)! I've come to realise I was focusing on my writing when it was (is) my own head that's not working properly.

Give the 800 words the benefit of a sleep-over. Come back to them with fresh eyes and see if they are that horrible (without bringing quantity into the equation). Did you more the story along?

Exactly what I'm going to investigate once I'm done posting here.

I don't know if it's common to all writers, but for both our sakes, lets just assume it's common to writers of a particular genius. A dazzling, but inconstant brilliance, hm?

Yes. Yes, I shall choose to believe this. :D

I'm about to do something I'm horrible at, and probably will regret, somewhere down the road. But here goes:

You are about the smartest and most succinctly expressive poster I know in this place. I can't imagine you're doing anything other than applying those qualities to your fiction. I think you're incapable of writing crap.

*cough*

You know, blaccy, sometimes you're...well, not sucky.

Which means, you are at the tipping point where you need to send something out. Only then will you know.

That's the scary thing. The frightening thing. I've said to so many people, "The only way to get over your fears is to face them.

Time for me to do exactly that.

It's not angsting about the fact that it really is hard work...it's the fear that you're putting in all that hard work for nothing.

I think you have something here.

And you're not.

I wish I knew. Sadly, I don't have crystal balls.

(Shut up seun).

Also, if I know you as well as I think I do, you've probably got some finishing anxiety going on because you're getting close to the end of your current book. Need I remind you that you went through this with the last one, too?

Um, really? Never!

*cough*

*moves swiftly on*

Have you considered drugs?

Hmm. *strokes chinbeard*

I often hate what I write. We all wallow sometimes - and it's that that spurs us on to improve isn't it? And then I go back and look at something old, like I did last night, and think 'Hang on, I wrote that? Hey I can work with this! It doesn't completely suck!'

Ig you thought your every word was gold, you'd never learn anything new. So it's a good wallow.

Chillax girl. Get some sleep, go to the park and watch the fit blokesducks. Enjoy the sun. Then come back and attack that keyboard :D

I live in Dundee. There are no fit blokes. :(

And you stole my 'My work sucks like giant hairy donkey balls' line. Moobag. *pokes tongue out at SP*

My donkey balls are cheesy. Yours are hairy.

I say it's okay to feel miserable or upset. It's not okay to leave the wheat you tended rotting in the fields. Reap, Scarlet, reap.

I used to dabble with words. I write now. I figure the least I can do is give a little heart-felt "rah-rah" to the people that set the example for me, i.e., you freaks.

I'm hopeless at shit like this. Or at least, I feel nervous when saying thank you, for some weird reason.

But thank you.

I think it was Freud that said all writers are mad. I've come to the conclusion that he had a point. Writers seem far more susceptible to mood swings, mental disorders, emotional problems, and other such things, than 'normal' people.

Aye. For the record, diagnosed as manic depressive in my early twenties and I've been clear for a while now. At the start of my 'good' period I got nervous that it would rear its ugly head again.

Then I started to feel safe.

And now...

But I think IdiotsRUs has summed it up quite succinctly with her story of being unable to write on medication. If being 'cured' means not being able to write any more, this is an option that most of us just wouldn't contemplate.

Did you ever see Saint Stephen Fry's programme about manic depression? The Secret Life of a Manic-Depressive I think it was called. Anyway, he asked the people he interviewed if there was a magic button to make it go away, would they press it?

All but one said no.

One man even said, "You're haunted by demons, but sometimes you fly with the angels and that makes it all worth it."

Pull yourself out of it, bird. Or I'll give you such a tongue-lashing you won't know what's hit you.

Dirty bastard.

And I doubt the mods will spank me for saying that, because...well, you are.

Sorry to all, but I have to jump in again. And I do it with an initial apology in case anyone misinterprets the intent.

For the record, Fizzy and I have exchanged rep points and PMs over the years in which I've given him permission to speak to me the way he does, because it's exactly what I need.

Excuses let us become victims, and victimology is hard to get out of because it* (a) makes us feel good about ourselves, (b) demands respect, by-passing the appropriate route of earning it, and (c) it relieves us of any responsibility for our own fouled-up condition.

I completely, 100% agree.

When we hit a rut like Scarlet has articulated, it's real. It happens. Writing is hard and it has rough spots. But we have to accept those rough spots as part of the journey, and above all avoid using them as excuses to bail, to give up, to take up the role of victim to this creative endeavor. Excuses to avoid finishing, to avoid putting our work out there for evaluation (in case we aren't as good as we hope) make us victims.

See? See? I told you he was good.

Some may be upset by this post, but Scarlet knows I love her and I will do anything I can to make sure she gains the success she is working so hard too achieve.

Precisely. I much prefer straight-to-the-point posts than arselickery (unless it comes from tt42 because it's cool to see her humbled in public).

Scarlet, look in the mirror. Are you making excuses? Don't become a victim.

Honestly? No.

If I wallowed, yes I would be making excuses. Everyone feels bad at times, I know. But judging how I lived my life, say, ten years ago? Getting in a rut and digging myself deeper and thinking myself into a depression is a very real danger.

And then I would make myself a victim, a possibility that makes me shudder.

Based on some comments from you in another post Scarlet, I wonder if your just suffering from various stages of fear-of-rejection anxiety. You had mentioned elsewhere that you are putting off some editing because of that.

Very, very likely.

I have no idea where you are at in and among your various writing projects, but as it regards my own work I put up an enormous wall between the "writing my book" process and the "trying to get the damn thing published" process.

I believe that's what I'm doing.

I have a nearly-150k draft waiting to be edited. I'm 98k into this WIP (incidentally, I only started it on 18th April this year, boast boast:D).

And I'm planning another novel.

So yeah, all wonderful ways to delay editing that first one.

Scarlet, no matter how much time we spend wallowing, the eventual highs are worth it. Writing is itself a sort of drug; the crash and jitters are to be expected, but it’s a fair trade for the highs.

Like the angels/demons thing all over again...

HUGZZZ.

SP, if you need a fresh set of eyes on your work, you can email me. Lori can hook you up with my address. I know having a totally new perspective look at my work always gets me fired up again, whether they love it or hate it. If they love it, I know I'm not a total failfest. If they hate it, it usually pisses me off and makes me turn it up to 11 so as to prove 'em wrong.

Ah, but you and Lori are just being nice to me. You don't understand. I really am awful...

/whinge off.

Once again, thanks to each and every one of you. Even the ones I didn't quote. :D Honestly, this is why I love this site.

Don't tell Mac. She'll think I've gone soft.
 

thethinker42

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thethinker42, you stand accused of being a mentally ill pervert. How do you plead?

GUILTAH AS CHARGED!

I hate it when you quote me back at myself.

Then stop being all wise and writerly and stuff.

Ah, but you and Lori are just being nice to me. You don't understand. I really am awful...

We are NOT. I know Libbie, and she'll tell you straight out if you suck. Granted she hasn't read your work, but I have, and it doesn't suck. Libbie will likely agree with me because she's smart that way. (To recognize good writing, not just agree with me to prevent bodily harm, though she's pretty smart that way too...)
 

swvaughn

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Welcome to my world. What say we go down to the pub and have us a Guiness, or, better, a couple drams of 16-year-old Laphroaig.

I'm about to do something I'm horrible at, and probably will regret, somewhere down the road. But here goes:

You are about the smartest and most succinctly expressive poster I know in this place. I can't imagine you're doing anything other than applying those qualities to your fiction. I think you're incapable of writing crap. Which means, you are at the tipping point where you need to send something out. Only then will you know.

Actually, that isn't quite right. Only after ten or fifteen years of doing that will you know.

caw

Wow, blac! My already esteemable opinion of you just rose several notches. Don't worry, though - I won't go spreading it around that you've got a bit of non-cynisism in you. :D

Scarlet, we all believe we write utter shite sometimes, no matter how good it actually is. Sometimes you just have to trust the opinions of others.

So trust Lori already. For she is wise, and has writ a book I completely intend to read the moment I can buy it. :)
 

Adam

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How did I miss this thread?!?! BAH!!!

*Tackle hugs SP.*

EVERY writer feels like that at some point. If a writer says they never have, disregard them, for they are a liar.
 

aadams73

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*Gives scarletpeaches a bouquet of huge turnips from Colin Farrell's turnip patch*
 
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I liked you up until that post, blaccy.

Make it a contest to see which of us is the last alcky standing after a bottle of Glayva each and you can redeem yourself.
 

skelly

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I liked you up until that post, blaccy.

Make it a contest to see which of us is the last alcky standing after a bottle of Glayva each and you can redeem yourself.
Whatever. Do you feel better? Are ye over it? Etc.?

:D
 
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I feel better but not 100% back to normal. I guess it'll take a few days.

It still amazes me how quickly it hit. I put it down to my system being run down after weeks of migraines and a few stressful events. It builds up, something's gotta give.

Oh well, at least I'm still alive and writing (slowly).
 

Swordswoman

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SP, I'm so sorry. I only know you through your posts, but their energy and wisdom has always been inspiring, even with the donkey-ball relish. You have a lot more friends out there than you know.

As a fellow BP I know nothing helps much - but there's something I've finally worked out over the last few years which just might:

When these downers come, something happens. It feels like bugger all's going on and everything's empty, but actually your brain's in a kind of surgery and something good is happening all the time you're under the anaesthetic. When you come out of it, you will write better. Honest.

The speed's the big clue. You might write slower for quite a while but it won't matter because you're moving to a new level in terms of quality, and gradually you'll do it quickly again. I never did quite get my old speed back, but I don't miss it - not when I look back at what I was writing then and what I'm writing now.

You, of course, are already a genius, so this is sheer gilding the lily. But in a very little while you'll be a super-genius and can be even more abusive to the rest of us.

I, for one, can't wait...

Louise
 
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Wow.

What a post.

I was thinking last night that I'm known for being a ballbreaker, a potty mouth, a tell-it-like-it-is, Colin-Farrell-obsessed, occasionally bitchy chick.

And sometimes, just sometimes, it gets exhausting. I want to just fall down where I am and sleep for a month because it's so fucking tiring putting on this "Glad to be alive," act.

Then posts like this come along and I feel better. Not 100%, but better. Which is a start.

SP, I'm so sorry. I only know you through your posts, but their energy and wisdom has always been inspiring, even with the donkey-ball relish. You have a lot more friends out there than you know.

:ROFL:

Do you put that on donkeyburgers?

As a fellow BP I know nothing helps much - but there's something I've finally worked out over the last few years which just might:

When these downers come, something happens. It feels like bugger all's going on and everything's empty, but actually your brain's in a kind of surgery and something good is happening all the time you're under the anaesthetic. When you come out of it, you will write better. Honest.

That does help, actually. I'll try to keep it in mind. "My brain's rebooting!"

The speed's the big clue. You might write slower for quite a while but it won't matter because you're moving to a new level in terms of quality, and gradually you'll do it quickly again.

Yeah, I am a lot slower now. I've written probably 500 words today and thought I'd deleted them all; thankfully I'd printed them out, but I found them pasted into another document after MS Word started working again.

Anyway. Whether they're good or not I don't know. It's probably best I try not to judge with my head being the way it is at the moment.

I never did quite get my old speed back, but I don't miss it - not when I look back at what I was writing then and what I'm writing now.

You, of course, are already a genius, so this is sheer gilding the lily. But in a very little while you'll be a super-genius and can be even more abusive to the rest of us.

I, for one, can't wait...

Louise

:D You flatterer, you!

(Complete lies, but still nice to read).
 
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Also, I need to publicly tell everyone that Adzmodeus rocks the phat one.

I can't say why without risk of bannination but trust me people...he does.
 

Adam

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*Snigger*

No comment. :D
 
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I stand corrected.

(I stand corrected on donkeyballburgers. The world's gone mad)!
 

Samantha's_Song

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Bugger! Now I'm intrigued, and you just can't imagine what's going through my mind right now! :D :tongue

Also, I need to publicly tell everyone that Adzmodeus rocks the phat one.

I can't say why without risk of bannination but trust me people...he does.
 
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