Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Elvis has left the building

The Symphony Orchestra nightly
Gives performances that are known, rightly,
As the best in the land.
Mr. Appleton's stand
Was polished, superb, also sprightly.

The Boston Symphony Orchestra gave the third concert of the subscription series to a large audience last evening. The orchestra again proved that it deserves its high reputation. Mr. Edward Appleton, an artist of the first rank, was the soloist.

The Committee has been very gratified by the interest the series is arousing. They plan to give a similar series each year from now on.

The Boston Symphony will present an equally attractive programme in its fourth concert on Tuesday, May 10.

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A little stiff for me, but, it may be meant to be so for a discerning audience.

The Boston Symphony Orchestra received high praise once again after it's third concert of this season's subscription series.
Mr. Edward Appleton, the evening's soloist, and top Baritone, gave a rousing performance.

The Committee is very pleased with the interest the series has garnered.
The programme has been so well received that the committee plans to make similar series an annual event

The Boston Symphony returns to the venue on March 10th with another attractive programme.

Ken

Sorry to change the subject again, but I wanted to react to something euclid said earlier about the Hero's Journey. Incidentally I did a journey of my own, the past weeks, into that subject: the different concepts on story structure. These are some of the charts I found that are based on the Campbell/Vogler structure euclid mentioned:










Most people seem to agree that these structures apply to both movie scripts and novels, and any other kind of story telling.

Since I am compulsive I am currently collecting all structures I can find in an excel chart. I want to find out where they overlap, and where they differ. So far, I have collected the structures of known figures of the screenwriting scene (Viki King, Rober McKee, John Truby, Barry Pearson, Campbel/Vogel, John Vorhaus), and others like David Siegel or Umberto Eco.

Currently, I can only say that for some reason, a lot of them agree that Act 2 starts at exactly page 85 (of a screenplay, that is). I like the oddity of that.

Then there are phenomeons like this:



Above is a chart of the emotional curve in a 120 minute movie script, below is the the hat from The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint Exupery


But, of course, we know, what this is. It's not a story. It's not a hat. It's an elephant.

A Boa Constrictor

pictopedia said:

... the hat from The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint Exupery

But, of course, we know, what this is. It's not a story. It's not a hat. It's an elephant.

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It looks like a boa constrictor after a good meal !!!!!!
Or a diplodocus sitting down.
Actually, it looks like the pattern of Lord of the Rings - part 3, which goes on and on and on at the end. (Great film, though, one of my all time favourites)

It is a snake.



You just passed the Prince test.

Length of a First Novel

At the risk of changing the subject yet again: My WIP1 is 90,000 words, and I have been advised that it is too short. For WIP2, which I am writing at the moment, I have been aiming at 100,000. Then I came across a great blog by a published author on "How to Write a Novel". She says:

Also necessary is a lead protagonist who makes us want to stand up and cheer for him while he's undergoing all the trials he's faced with during your 65,000-85,000 word manuscript. By the way, I didn't choose that word count arbitrarily; it's the standard word count for the average "first novel" manuscript. Anything less and the MS would be a novella (few publishing prospects there!) and anything more would hike the book's production costs so high that some publishers will be disinclined to take the financial risk.

So what is the preferred length for a first novel?

euclid said:

So what is the preferred length for a first novel?

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Depends on the genre, but generally 80-100K words.

And if you look at "Manuscript Formatting" in this forum it says 50,000 for fiction. That was why my early projection was 55,000 for my book. But I quickly did the math and figured out that it would be to short. The first draft is 53,000, and only 204 pages.
So here is a Q Uncle Sage, Absolute Jim; On average, when a publisher formats a general fiction novel, how many of our double-spaced manu-formatted pages make up a printed page? I ask because, like J. Patterson, I write in super-short chapters. 850 to 1200 words. I know when the publishing house formats it they can use tricks to make the page count higher, I'm just curious.

On average, when a publisher formats a general fiction novel, how many of our double-spaced manu-formatted pages make up a printed page?

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As many as the book designer wants. There isn't an answer to that question.


----

But! Today, just for y'all, Secrets of the Pros, #573: How To Get a New York Times Best-Selling Plot for Just Fifty Cents!

1) Go to a used book store.
2) Go to the back where they have a box labeled "Any book in this bin, $0.50"
3) Look through the box until you find a book that has "New York Times Best Seller" on the cover.
4) Buy that book.
5) Use the plot.


Tomorrow: Secrets of the Pros, #574: How to Get an Award-winning Plot for Only a Quarter!

Book length

James D. Macdonald said:

Depends on the genre, but generally 80-100K words.

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Hi Uncle Jim,
Could you break that down by genre, please?

I'm sure 50,000-55,000 quoted by smsarber is too short for anything but a children's or YA book. Am I right?

Please do not attribute that quote to me, euclid. Look in the "General Manuscript Formatting" thread at the top of Writing novels. The 50,000 word line is from CathyC. But I would agree that it is too short for anything but YA. Or a novella.


PS I just went back and checked; it had been quite a while since I had looked at that sticky. In her General Formatting write up it lists a general fiction manu at "over 30,000 words".

euclid said:

Hi Uncle Jim,
Could you break that down by genre, please?

I'm sure 50,000-55,000 quoted by smsarber is too short for anything but a children's or YA book. Am I right?

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Yeah, 50K is YA territory. For genres -- go to a bookstore and start counting. Or look at specific publishers' guidelines. They'll tell you what they're looking for.

I found something that could go into the "Secrets of the Pros #575". Copied from: http://www.blakesnyder.com/tools/


In the mood for horror but can’t nail the story? Here’s 10 ways to unleash your inner Stephen King.
10 HORROR CONCEPT EXCERCISES by Blake Snyder

1. Trapped -- In so many horror movies, the concept of being imprisoned in an enclosed space with a monster is the movie. We see this in The Abyss, Alien, and Saw. What new place or situation can you put characters in which they are trapped? This is essentially taking one of the three building blocks of the Monster in the House movie and challenging yourself to come up with a new “house” for the heroes to be stuck in. Where have we not seen a MITH movie set yet? Example: A movie called Area 51: “Teens break into an abandoned government facility and discover it is haunted by the ghosts of aliens experimented on in the ‘70s who now seek revenge against all mankind.” ACTION STEP: Make a list of new “houses” to set a MITH.

2. Cursed -- Another common starting point for horror movies is to concentrate on the curse aspect of the set-up, the classic example being all those Mummy movies where the explorers violate the warning label on the sarcophagus. This is essentially looking at another basic point of the MITH and saying: What new “sin” can I come up with to create a better movie idea? Example: In my movie Granny, the sin is any teenager who violates the rules of etiquette in the book Granny carries with her. Their “sin” is not knowing good manners. What other sins can we use as starting points: the seven deadly ones? What are we most guilty about today?
ACTION STEP: Make a list of new “sins” to incite a MITH.

3. Godzilla Lives! -- In the ‘50s, we created a whole slew of monsters from the A-Bomb and its testing. What new way to create a monster from our guilt today makes for an exercise dealing with the third aspect of a good MITH: the monster! What new monsters can be created? And maybe we can go “low tech” here, too. A zoo where experimentation is taking place might lead to a bunch of new killer zebras, penguins, or bears? Maybe it’s a run-down kennel or puppy mill, but this time, focus on the monster, not the how or the where. ACTION STEP: Make a list of new “monsters” to begin a MITH movie.

4. Torn from today’s headlines! -- Many of the best movie ideas come from incidents right out of the newspaper that are fictionalized in films. This can be part of the creation of good horror films, too. Can we not, for instance, set a horror movie in the middle of the war in Iraq? What about using stories about the Space Shuttle, a Hurricane in the Deep South, a new advance in medicine, or a discovery of a new astronomical breakthrough as the basis of a new scary movie? Why not indeed! ACTION STEP: Start a clip file for horror. Print out from newspapers one story a week that can be the basis of a new horror movie and pitch it to friends.

5. Inversion -- For every horror film there is a comedy version, e.g. Scary Movie. But what if we start with a comedy and make it scary? ACTION STEP: Take Leonard Maltin’s Movie Guide, find the comedy section, and turn those films into scary movies. Can Wedding Crashers be made into a horror film? How about Wedding Crasher Zombies who eat the brains of wedding guests at events they were not invited to? How about 40-Year-Old Virgin? Why not 400-Year-Old Virgin Who Wants My Girlfriend?

6. The New Coke! -- This is a great exercise for any screenwriter and any creative thinker in today’s world of branding and marketing. Find a movie type (i.e., Vampire films) and figure out a way to do “The New One.” For this exercise it is best to find types of movies that are so old, so hackneyed, so “out” that we consider them dead, dead, dead. And actually vampire movies are a perfect example. Haven’t we seen every kind ever over the years? Well, where is the Sean of the Dead version? Ah-ha! Just saying that tells us there’s life in Dracula yet! ACTION STEP: Make a list of every bad monster film ever -- especially those that you think will NEVER be revived. Second, think of yourself as a branding expert. You’ve been called in to invigorate a product. How can you re-package it, revive it, find a twist that will bring the franchise back from the dead? What about The Mummy, Wolfman, Dracula, Creature from the Black Lagoon?

7. Zapped! -- A lot of horror movies involve transformation, e.g., The Fly. In essence, the man becomes the monster and is trapped in his own “house” due to the sin of trying to be God. Messing with the laws of nature is the common sin in these MITH movies, and the result is always baaaaaaaaaad! So let’s ask ourselves, what new way can an experimenting scientist transform himself into a monster? What other ways of dabbling with the dark side are there to summon up a transmutation that with one fell zap! can make a man into a monster? ACTION STEP: Make a list of “messing with nature” experiments and the resulting “thing” that comes from that, then create a sinful way for the scientists to regret their “lab rat.”

8. Sex and the Single Monster -- Many times the heroine of a movie falls for a monster, e.g., King Kong. Even Dracula has this difficulty; it’s so hard to meet girls who only work at night! But if romance can be the basis of a good rom-com why not a horror film? Well, who is that girl or guy who can fall for “a monster”? Why not start with the “normal” one who is the hero of our movie and pair them off with their thematic opposite. ACTION STEP: Make a list of romantic leads, you can even borrow from classic love story movies, and pair them with a new “monster.” Who is it? And how do they transform?

9. Geographic, my dear Monster -- Places. That’s what this exercise is about. What is it about the desert, the icy Antarctic, or the jungle, besides isolation, that makes for such wonderful horror films. Well, where’s yours set? ACTION STEP: Look at a map and find a place in the world to set a horror flick. How is a movie set in NYC different from one set in Mexico City or the suburbs of LA? How can you create a monster and a problem that is indigenous to the place, maybe tie it in to the ancient legends of that area. Isn’t a Navajo legend perfect for the Arizona setting? You can also think geographic “fish out of water” and bring the Navajo curse to the city with an exhibit at an urban museum. But start with place. What is it about the locale that is scary?

10. Social Commentary -- Finally, what better way to come up with a movie for a genre that is decidedly underrated than to lace your idea with deeper inner meaning or statement? Beneath the surface of many great horror films is decided social commentary, e.g., Invasion of the Body Snatchers as a metaphor for the Red Scare in the ‘50s or the John Carpenter movie, They Live, a tract on the Reagan ‘80s and the rise of the “Yuppie.” What do you want to get off your chest about the state of the world? Find a way to speak to the public at large by expressing yourself in the blood ‘n guts mayhem of a good B movie. ACTION STEP: Make a list of social, political, or theological points of view you wish to discuss. Now embody differing sides of the argument with characters who represent that point of view. Let’s see how creatively you can get on your soapbox to send a message without calling Western Union!

I guess I have officially entered Query Hell. I've gotten back 2 rejections on a query and still have one out there with more due to be sent out over the weekend and all through the rest of the month and going on until I land an agent. However, what makes this Query Hell for me is an experience I've had today down in the SYW forum for query letters.

I posted the draft that I sent out to my first three agent picks down there yesterday evening I believe. By this evening I had gotten several useful and interesting comments and some good feedback.

The hellish part was that as more and more people commented the comments started to drift in circles. One person said put your bio up front. One person said make the voice more active. Another said put in the fact I'd done more than just researched 2 websites. The next person would almost immediately contradict the previous poster's comments. Some people seemed to want me to tell them the whole book's story in a single paragraph and then answer questions about the book rather than the query itself.

I ended up telling the commenters to forget about asking me questions about the book and to stick with commenting on the query letter's contents. I did ask for critiques and feedback, yes, but it seemed to me they were trying to go beyond critiquing a fairly simple query letter and trying to dig for more information on the book.

Trying to sum up an entire book in a paragraph or two is a difficult enough process without commentators trying to run you in circles trying to fix the darned thing. I've written business contracts that were easier than writing a query letter.

Sorry, but I thought my experience here could prove a point for comment by Jim or some of the more experienced "hands" here.

On Query Letters

FOTSGreg said:

The hellish part was that as more and more people commented the comments started to drift in circles.

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Hi, Your experience must be quite common. The problem, of course, is that there are lots and lots of (well-meaning) beginners in the forum who will chip in their tuppence worth and have the potential to send you spinning in ever decreasing circles. You have to reject any advice that you feel doesn't make sense, while watching out for the gems of wisdom - there usually are one or two.

For query letters, have you read the sticky thread by Andrew Jameson? Sorry, but I don't know how to post the forum reference in here.

Good luck with it.

FOTSGreg said:

Trying to sum up an entire book in a paragraph or two is a difficult enough process without commentators trying to run you in circles trying to fix the darned thing. I've written business contracts that were easier than writing a query letter.

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I sympathize. I landed an agent based on a cold query, and it was a ton of work to put it together.

Which doesn't make me an expert or anything, but I will tell you what I did: First: the description should be a person in a place with a problem/goal. Is there a plot point around page 30 or 50 that spins the story out? Give the story up until this point, with a clue as to what comes next.

Last: while feedback is useful, it's better to read and compare other authors' successful queries. Yesterday, the folks at sfnovelists did a Query Project ( http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/09/12/the-query-project/ ) in which the members posted successful queries and commented on them.

The thing to remember as you read them all is this: what matters is not how all the queries are different. What matters is the ways they are similar.

Good luck. This part isn't fun, but it's necessary.

You should read Scott Edelstein's "30 Steps to Becoming a Writer". It covers the entire process of writing to be published, including manu formatting, queries, cover letters, etc... You can probably find a good used copy on Amazon for a few dollars.

Query letters

I went through the same experience when I posted my query letter. You just have to thresh out the wheat from the chaff. After MANY iterations I revised my original letter. It is not perfect, but it is as close as I'm going to get. I've sent out 39 letters with slight modifications to each and so far have received 22 rejections and 1 request for a full manuscript.
All I can say is, it's not an easy process and, although there are guidelines, there's no formula to creating the perfect letter for your MS.

I don't have the Edelstein book, but I have The First Five Pages by Noah Lukeman, and Give 'Em What They Want by Blythe Camenson and Marshall J. Cook and they're pretty good. Jeff Herman's Guide to Book Publishers, Editors & Literary Agents also has lots of good advice in it in my opinion. And, of course, I've perused and studied the threads here over the last year or so plus AgentQuery, QueryTracker, and a couple dozen other agent sites.

What was funny, and what I really allowed myself to get frustrated about (not to mention a little upset with the commenters) was when they started asking for details of the book that even an agent would only ask about in a partial or a full request. I can laugh about it now, but...

I've seen the basic guidelines for structure go as follows,

Intro/Address
Hook
Expository paragraph
Bio
Close

But it was funny when people started suggesting changes to the basic format such as,

Intro/Address
Bio
Hook
Expository paragraph
Close

or

Intro/Address
Hook
Bio
Expository paragraph
Close

I've got my query to well under a single page, see a few things that need a little work, but my experience down at SYM virtually guarantees I'll never try that route again.

Thanks for all your comments. At least I can usually count on the folks on this thread (and the folks over at the Analog forum) to know what you're talking about.

Actually, I changed my mind and am giving JanDary and jclarkdawe another chance to tear my letter apart. Guess I'll give you folks a chance at it too since this thread is also a place to learn. This is not the whole thing, just the guts. It's also the order I think things ought to be in.

-----
Everybody knows that giant insects cannot exist, right? That’s what Jason Carter, fifth-year graduate student in entomology at UC Berkeley, knows to be fact. But when he discovers the carcass of an eight-inch beetle in the Oakland Hills and his home town in Kentucky is destroyed by mouse-sized ants, he discovers that what he knows is no longer true. Recruited into an organization dedicated to battling scientific threats, he is tempted by an enemy agent, leads a team into the hills and learns more than he expected about the re-emergence of giant insects into the ecology. Entrusted with finding the cause and with a swarm of giant ants about to overrun the Cal campus, Jason is betrayed by a trusted friend and targeted for assassination. Caught in a cat-and-mouse chase across the campus, Jason must stay alive if he is to avert global megafamine as genetically-engineered giant insects plunge the world into catastrophe.

I am seeking representation for my 80,000-word science fiction novel Hatchings.
-----

Thanks,
Greg

"Do not go to the elves for counsel, for they will say both 'yes' and 'no'."
-- The Lord of the Rings

If you ask two writers for their opinion, you'll get three answers. On the subject of query letters, within certain broad guidelines, there are no right answers.

Having said that -- let me say about the above example that "chased across campus" sounds mighty small-scale, and I'd like to know if Jason saves the world. This isn't a cover flap. You have to tell the ending.

Uncle Jim said, let me say about the above example that "chased across campus" sounds might small-scale, and I'd like to know if Jason saves the world. This isn't a cover flap. You have to tell the ending.

I do? Okay then. Nobody bothered to tell me that. Duh...

The chase takes up about the last 5 thousand words of the book. Jason manages to save the campus, but the book ends there. He hasn't yet managed to find those responsible or save the world. There's a POV switch at the very end where his sidekick (Smith) realizes he's following another general (Jason) into another war.

There is a follow-on volume (not yet written - at least 1, maybe 2), but I've seen that it's a bad idea to tell an agent this up front especially for a first book (the first book stands on its own for the most part, but it's fairly obvious there needs to be another one at the end).

BTW, and just as an aside, I'm having one of those "2 years of my life wasted" moments (mostly in revising and polishing this stupid beast though it really is and has been my main focus the last 2 years).

Hmm, a good number of agents say you don't have to tell the ending in a query. In a synopsis, yes, but the query's function is to entice them to read.

Secrets of the Pros, #259: Dealing with Rejection


1) Go outdoors.
2) Turn your face to the sky.
3) Shake your fist at the sky.
4) Say, in a loud tone of voice, "Laugh, ye mucker!"
5) Go back inside and slide your story into a new envelope with a new cover letter and a new SASE.
6) Mail it.

===========

Uh-oh. Unwritten second volume holds the climax? Let's a) write the second volume, and b) combine it with the first volume to make one book.

James D. Macdonald said:

This isn't a cover flap. You have to tell the ending.

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Judg said:

Hmm, a good number of agents say you don't have to tell the ending in a query. In a synopsis, yes, but the query's function is to entice them to read.

Click to expand...

James D. Macdonald said:

Uh-oh. Unwritten second volume holds the climax? Let's a) write the second volume, and b) combine it with the first volume to make one book.

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There you have it: Two writers, three opinions. Exactly as predicted...