Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

SarahMacManus · Apr 25, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
In a short story you don't have the room to put in anything that isn't purely part of the story.

A novel is doing aerobatics at 10,000 feet. You have room to recover.

A short story is doing aerobatics at 500 feet. You don't have much of a margin of error.

I've always found it easier to write short stories than novels. I've been writing shorts for over 30 years, but writing my first novel was excrutiating, and I still only hit 65,000 words. I had to beat myself until it was 75,000.

General Tso · Apr 26, 2009

What do you do when your writing is interrupted by the undeniable lure of another story?

I don't mean to say that I have lost the drive to write what I'm working on, nor have I lost faith in it. In fact I like where it's going and I'm actually making decent progress for once. I have created deep [hopefully] characters, laid out plot arcs for all of them, woven a detailed outline, and have started powering through the first 10K words.

But I have this urge. I'm sure you get ideas for other stories all the time. But I have this particular idea that is drawing me in. I feel passion for it at the moment. It is clear in my head.

What do you do when this happens to you? Simply jot down notes and get back to your normal WIP? Halt the WIP completely to write what you're currently drawn to? Or something in between?

Judg · Apr 26, 2009

You can get seduced by a new story ad infinitum. Better to jot down those notes and finish the one you're working on.

Bukarella · Apr 26, 2009

General Tso said:
What do you do when your writing is interrupted by the undeniable lure of another story?

I promised myself I won't start another story until I'm done with the two that I'm working on right now. Ideas keep popping up in my head, and it's extremely tempting. However, I don't think it's helpful to keep jumping from one idea to another until one masters the discipline to actually complete a project. I do give myself permission to write down the ideas that crawl into my head, but nothing more than that.

Manix · Apr 26, 2009

Uncle Jim, 'O Grand Knowing One, thank you for all this wisdom! I have a question:

My WIP opens with a scene that seems somewhat frivolous at the outset (dialogue between the MC and another character, who doesn't reappear until 2/3s of the way into the book) The dialogue is a light read, humorous, and gives a feel for the MC's personality. My question is: how long do I have to "get to the point" of the hook, where an agent (or potential reader) would say, "Ah-ha! now we're getting to the action!"?

This opening scene is about one page long, and funny, as I said, so beta readers have said it grabs their attention, but two of them have wondered if it's too frivolous to wait another page in before getting to the "action scene"

What are your thoughts?

James D. Macdonald · Apr 26, 2009

General Tso said:
What do you do when this happens to you? Simply jot down notes and get back to your normal WIP? Halt the WIP completely to write what you're currently drawn to? Or something in between?

So you stop writing your current WIP, and start on the new, glorious idea that seems to write itself. And half-way through that novel, you have a great idea that begs to be written, so you stop your work in progress and start writing that new novel. And half-way through writing it, you have an astounding idea ...

...and thirty years from now you have sixty half-novels in your attic.

If something begs to be written, write it. But you don't get to stop doing two hours a day on your current WIP, all the way through to The End.

Manix said:
her page in before getting to the "action scene"

What are your thoughts?

What does the scene accomplish?

What's the tone of your novel?

Does Character B (the one who doesn't reappear until 2/3 of the way through the book) need to be in the story at all?

smsarber · Apr 26, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
So you stop writing your current WIP, and start on the new, glorious idea that seems to write itself. And half-way through that novel, you have a great idea that begs to be written, so you stop your work in progress and start writing that new novel. And half-way through writing it, you have an astounding idea ...

...and thirty years from now you have sixty half-novels in your attic.

If something begs to be written, write it. But you don't get to stop doing two hours a day on your current WIP, all the way through to The End.

Great advice!!!!!!

Manix · Apr 26, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
What does the scene accomplish?
Gee...it introduces the MC and his best friend (who disappears until later) and sets up their relationship and the way they relate to one another (humorously, etc.)
What's the tone of your novel?
It's YA fantasy, a light read at the beginning to draw the reader in
Does Character B (the one who doesn't reappear until 2/3 of the way through the book) need to be in the story at all?

I could take this Character B out completely, but he adds so much humor to the MC's life and complexity to the plot later on that I didn't want to nix him. I will if it's advised though. What do you think?

James D. Macdonald · Apr 26, 2009

Manix said:
What do you think?

You've read your book. Your betas have read your book. I haven't.

If the character vanishes for 2/3 of the novel he doesn't seem all that essential. Could this character be combined with some other character to simplify things?

Manix · Apr 26, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
You've read your book. Your betas have read your book. I haven't.

If the character vanishes for 2/3 of the novel he doesn't seem all that essential. Could this character be combined with some other character to simplify things?

Well, possibly, with a bit of re-working. He's not essential, just a fun character to work with. I'll have to think of how I could combine him with someone else (wow, I feel like I'm God...) and see what happens. Thanks.

James D. Macdonald · Apr 27, 2009

Manix said:
He's not essential....

That means that he may not belong in this book. Fun is always good. Please consider making him essential.

smsarber · Apr 27, 2009

Uncle Jim,

Just because I'm curious...

How many words of fiction do you estimate you've published?

When did you begin creative writing? In high school? College?

Did you ever work as a potato farmer? Or undercover as a janitor on an inter-galactic warship?

James D. Macdonald · Apr 27, 2009

smsarber said:
Uncle Jim,

Just because I'm curious...

How many words of fiction do you estimate you've published?

Somewhere above two million.

When did you begin creative writing? In high school? College?

In elementary school. I wrote a Hardy Boys novel when I was ten.

Did you ever work as a potato farmer? Or undercover as a janitor on an inter-galactic warship?

No, and no.

allenparker · Apr 27, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
That means that he may not belong in this book. Fun is always good. Please consider making him essential.

This was my thought, although Jim beat me to it. The character probably already has a life going on in the first 2/3 of the book, but he doesn't get to tell his story. Perhaps a few details of what is happening might build the character to the point where the funny guy has more depth and you find him to be vital to the story's plot.

Manix · Apr 27, 2009

allenparker said:
This was my thought, although Jim beat me to it. The character probably already has a life going on in the first 2/3 of the book, but he doesn't get to tell his story. Perhaps a few details of what is happening might build the character to the point where the funny guy has more depth and you find him to be vital to the story's plot.

Thanks Jim! Thanks allen! This makes so much sense right now. Now that you mention it, he really is important to many points of the plot at the end. I just never identified him that way in my head. Wow. Paradigm shift in my head...Thanks

smsarber · Apr 27, 2009

My guess had been in the millions. I never had the patience for any kind of creative writing when I was ten, wow!

linton · Apr 27, 2009

SarahMacManus said:
I've always found it easier to write short stories than novels. I've been writing shorts for over 30 years, but writing my first novel was excrutiating, and I still only hit 65,000 words. I had to beat myself until it was 75,000.

To me that's the hardest part. When you feel you've actually finished writing the novel and wou're all drained, and you need another ten or twenty thousand words. It's total torture. I know, just use "What if?" but it doesn't work for me.

Calliopenjo · Apr 27, 2009

Hi Steven,

I left a crit for you. And I believe that includes everyone. Let me know if I missed ya.

James D. Macdonald · Apr 27, 2009

linton said:
When you feel you've actually finished writing the novel and wou're all drained, and you need another ten or twenty thousand words.

Or, if every word is the right word and you've told your story ... find a market that accepts that length in that genre.

Electronic media, in particular, are open to shorter lengths.

raburrell · Apr 27, 2009

Hi Uncle Jim,
As a newbie, I'm slowly working my way through this thread (perhaps 15 pages so far), and I'm already feeling reinvigorated & looking forward to improving my skills. So I just wanted to say thank you.

FOTSGreg · Apr 28, 2009

Erm... Uncle Jim's thread does not drop off the first page.

BUMP!

smsarber · Apr 28, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
In elementary school. I wrote a Hardy Boys novel when I was ten.

What ever became of that? And was it any good?

I'm asking these questions because you've been a great mentor to so many of us, and I'd really like to know more about you.

Blue Sky · Apr 29, 2009

New Genre Alert

Hey, there's been a new genre created right here on AW--Ruritanian Zombie Romance.

The thread title is: Using Foreign Languages in a Fantasy World
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139876

There's a surprise screenplay excerpt on page two!

James D. Macdonald · Apr 29, 2009

smsarber said:
What ever became of that? And was it any good?

I found it again a couple of years ago, when cleaning out the house after my mother's death. She'd kept a copy, you understand.

It had its moments.

I showed it to one of my editors, who remarked, "Even if it didn't have a name on it I'd know who wrote it."

That's because "style" is what you can't help doing. (Though it is a bit disheartening to learn that I haven't changed since I was ten....)

smsarber · Apr 29, 2009

But you could say you've held yourself to the same standards and integrity as when you were ten years old.

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