Purgatory's Pit of Doom

Mornin', Pit

{{{Red}}}

{{{Beth}}}

{{{Kell}}}

{{{Cricket}}}

Para, I'm late to the game (as usual) so I don't know what agent is being referenced. But from what I gather, the statement itself is not patronizing or arrogant.

I believe the issue is the context, because it comes off as a public flogging for the writers who she just rejected minutes earlier.

Also, there is another, related issue, of the possible disconnect between what the agent looks for and an editor.

Teriann, I'm really confused as to where you're getting this from. The agent said:

So many fantastic queries today. Followed by lackluster pages. *sob* PLEASE spend as much time on your pages as you do your queries.

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But you compared it to:

What if a lawyer twittered, "Two potential clients tried to hire me today. What idiots. Of course I won't take their cases"

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Do you really think that's similar? Because I don't see it at all.

Para, not having seen what actually went down, for me - it's the context.

1) She tweeted that right after sending a bunch of Rs. We all know how neurotic writers are. The ones who should be paying attention, aren't. And the ones who are paying attention, are probably the ones who don't need the reminder but now are feeling insecure. In other words, she's not helping anyone.

2) Writing is subjective. Just because she didn't like the pages, doesn't mean no one else will. Therefore, stating things in absolute terms like that is ridiculous and hurtful.

Para, I agree, I do think that's a false equivelence (ahhh, it feels good to disagree with Teri again. ).

But like I said above, I think the context is important. Also, after the "*sob*" part it does give the impression that she thinks writers are not working as hard on their pages as they should.

I got a total flipside to this argument though--if this is actually the case as the agent suggests, then the agents have created this situation by their uber focus on queries. Agents get so many queries with so little time to read that a writer may only get a sentence or two to catch an agent's attention. The query opens the door.

I went back and edited a post without realizing that people were posting so I deleted that one and put it here.

First, yes, I was exaggerating and ranting. Sloppy and emotional.

This one probably is too. But it IS my birthday and I wanna rant.

That twitter was dismissive of a writer's work and effort, and an agent who disses writers in public should not be an agent. Sorry. Have some respect. Another way of reading what she said is, "um writers, it's just as important to write a good book as to write a query" implies that all the writer cares about is landing an agent, not writing a good book, which implies that writers are sort of stupid and have to be told "it's just as important to write a good book as a good query."

I don't do twitter, so maybe I'm just not clued into the the culture. Maybe people twitter things like, "A bunch of lackluster people came to my party" without really caring that the people at the party are on twitter. What I see in that twitter is a very young person with a very large head.

MODERATELY PLEASANT NATAL DAY, TERI

mario_c said:

I thought this would garner a laugh in here. Has this ever happened to you?

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You did in fact make me LOL, Mario. The comments contained quite a few gems, as well.

My Saturday R was more of the dating variety, but was somewhat improved by Sunday.

I feel so farging weary of all things today. News at work that may put me in a new job. Last push for fiscal year. The need to finish my revisions, but the glaring horror that is publishing making clear that I will suffer alongside so many other talented writers who aren't getting bupkis for their efforts.

BTW, I got laugh now on agents who get super specific in what they like. As if they can sell any of that stuff now the way the market has transformed.

((((Cricket))))!!!

Beth that is so unprofessional. What I dislike is the double standard. So an agent can tweet such an unnecessary post (and let's be real here SHE didn't like the pages. That doesn't mean they are crap. The key word in writing is SUBJECTIVITY!) yet if a writer posted something less than glowing about an agent/publishing they'd get the heavy hand of doom from the Powers That Shush™. I hate this whole double standard of agents being able to 'vent' yet writers are expected to not have anything but glowing opinions of the practices currently used in publishing. It smacks of Tomfoolery and Shenanigans!

Cricket18 said:

All I WILL say: it's getting easier and easier to see why people are leaving agents behind.

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This

OL said:

I am watching Spinal Tap for the I forget how many times. It really could be the official Film of the Pit. It's so freakin' funny and yet so painful.

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I LOVE Spinal Tap! Haha! There should be one for writers

Teri is it really your birthday? If soHappy birthday!

((red))

*nods along with Teri* Her tweet was just unhelpful.

Okay so if you have that much of a beef, rant in private, email the person in private but Tweeting does feel, to me, like unnecessary public humiliation. Also her tweet felt like a blanket statement to me which rankles right up there with 'always' and 'never'. Yes some writers may not pay attention to their pages, but lots do! So to get an R then basically have it publicly implied that you didn't pay attention to your craft (due to their subjective opinion) feels unnecessary and unhelpful to me. And talk about rubbing salt into the wound that was already inflicted by the R!

SteveCordero said:

BTW, I got laugh now on agents who get super specific in what they like. As if they can sell any of that stuff now the way the market has transformed.

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I know! Also what about those agents who say they want x then when you submit it they say they don't rep it?? I had that happen to me several times.

Maybe we should be more like that twittering agent and when we query an agent who says 'looking for x!' and then get an R saying they aren't interested in that genre, we should take to Twitter and say 'Agents, PLEASE make sure to pay attention to your web pages and what you ask for! Don't say you're looking for x and then reject a writer who submits x saying you're not interested in that genre any more *sob*'.

soulcascade said:

Maybe we should be more like that twittering agent and when we query an agent who says 'looking for x!' and then get an R saying they aren't interested in that genre, we should take to Twitter and say 'Agents, PLEASE make sure to pay attention to your web pages and what you ask for! Don't say you're looking for x and then reject a writer who submits x saying you're not interested in that genre any more *sob*'.

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*snicker* I like that idea!

ETA - Happy Birthday to Teri!

And - just saw this on PM: @udrey Ember's F!FTY SH@DES OF DOR!@N GR@Y....

Moderately pleasant Uterine Expulsion Day[SUP]TM[/SUP], Teri!

(((Cricket and puppeh))) OY! That puppeh deserves a nice doggy treat and you deserve a stiff drink.

ChelseaWriter said:

ETA - found an interesting blog entry from a writer (and former editor!) on why manuscripts get rejected. Oh, the unfairness of it all. Don't know if this makes me feel better or worse: Link here

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*Bookmarks to read*

BethMac said:

So many fantastic queries today. Followed by lackluster pages. *sob* PLEASE spend as much time on your pages as you do your queries.

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(((Beth)))

Para, the reason this is hurtful is because it's geared toward the writers she rejected. Had the agent wrote: "Polish those queries and first pages" or something like it, then it wouldn't come off nearly as bad. It's general advice. But, when she targets a group of writers - ones she rejected - by saying "So many fantastic queries today. Followed by lackluster pages" then it's simply rude.

*snuggles Cricket and poor pupper*

Teri, may this anniversary of your uterine expulsion contain fewer rejections and nasty surprises than a typical day in the Pit.

did you guys see #badqueryingtips is trending on twitter...

*wild speculation ahead*

Speaking of agents, I've always wondered if some of them request a manuscript and then "sit" on it, just to gauge whether there's interest/buzz (from other agents). There's no way to know if this is true, or how often it occurs (what agent would admit it?), but sometimes the wait is just overly-long, and it makes me wonder sometimes about why.

One agent took 19 months to respond to my requested full, and that was only because I told her I had another offer (which I did). And the several partials I have out right now have been languishing for many months, with my polite nudges completely ignored. Anyway, it just makes me speculate.

Sure, agents are extraordinarily busy people - but if they're that busy, why request more manuscripts than they know they'll have time to read? *shrug*

Posted upstairs, but seems moderately Pit-worthy...

Entered a contest. Didn't final. But, was iffy about entering in the first place as it was for romance and my MS is more urban fantasy. Did get some good feedback on first chapter and made changes. But...

It has me worried about the rest of the book. It went through five betas and three rounds of revisions with my agent. Yet, now I'm all doubting and wondering if I'll sink into my perpetual-revising-funk.

Silver, *going to check, because curiosity always gets the better of me*

{{{Snappy}}}

Hi guys
Was researching for a project- why do I enjoy reading census data from 1850?

I appreciate all the discussion about my reject and twitter incident. You all explained so well why its sucks and hurts on many levels. Teri- I always appreciate your fiery nature and hope you have a fantastic birthday.

I know I will publish this work one way or another so I've decided not to let the let the agent search get me down. Not everyone can recognize brilliance right? he he

Para, I can't explain it any better than the others did.

Off to research some more. Love a rainy day when we can hang around the house and not feel guilty

Edited to add, sorry snappy

(((snappy))) (((beth mac))) (((cricket))) happy bday teri...who am i missing? Look my contest is being advertised up at the top of the page...
when i was on sub I had an editor tweet a LINE FROM MY BOOK and say, teens don't know what this is authors, ask a teen when your write if they know what you're talking about. I wanted to die...
eta: "critically acclaimed" it's so pittish...i apologize

Silver, possibly one reason why I don't write specifically for teens. I wasn't one even when I was a teenager, and that was a geologic era ago.

Still, that would make me hurl.

An editor actually tweeted a line from your book when you were on sub???? Are you kidding me??? Ugh. I have no words, wait...

ChelseaWriter said:

*wild speculation ahead*

Speaking of agents, I've always wondered if some of them request a manuscript and then "sit" on it, just to gauge whether there's interest/buzz (from other agents). There's no way to know if this is true, or how often it occurs (what agent would admit it?), but sometimes the wait is just overly-long, and it makes me wonder sometimes about why.

One agent took 19 months to respond to my requested full, and that was only because I told her I had another offer (which I did). And the several partials I have out right now have been languishing for many months, with my polite nudges completely ignored. Anyway, it just makes me speculate.

Sure, agents are extraordinarily busy people - but if they're that busy, why request more manuscripts than they know they'll have time to read? *shrug*

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Chelsea I really believe agents sit on some manuscripts. The one who sat on yours, did you R you after all that time or offer?

Also yeah, agents are busy. So are we! And I SOOO much agree, if agents are so busy why keep requesting more manuscripts? Shenanigans I cry!

(((Snappy))) if it's the ms I betaed keep trying! I enjoyed your ms much better than lots of published stuff out there I've read.

OMG Silver so unprofessional!!!!!!! And yet if you replied to her tweet stating the obvious - that it was rude and unprofessional - YOU would look like the crazy writer and no one would think 'humm maybe they have a point, that tweet was out of sorts' grr. Double standards.

it was a male editor...and yes tweeted a line from my book. I called my agent and was like WTF this editor is tweeting about my book and she was like yeah it looks like it. Even my agent didn't say it was unprofessional! But when I got my offer, my agent was like- should we let so and so who tweeted the line from your book know and I was like F them. I would NEVER want to work with them after that...

My mistake. Still, whether or not the person was a man or woman isn't the issue IMHO. They were rude and unprofessional, THAT's the clencher.